There are two mutated bloodlines that alter how a Sorcerer casts: Empyreal makes him cast off Wisdom, and Sage goes off INT. Disregarding bloodline powers, what is in your opinion the best stat to cast off of? As a Sorcerer, you of course want as high a casting stat as you want, so that kinda leaves your other stats kinda middling if you also want some CON and DEX. They can be decent, but they'll never be stellar, IMHO (meaning, you can make one 14, but hardly anything above that. My opinion, in order:
- INT gives you a lot more skill points per level. My gripe with Sorcerers is mostly the two skill points per level. That doesn't leave you with a lot of options. You'll put most of them in face skills as that's what you're naturally good at, but otherwise you're really strapped for skills.
- WIS gives a better Will save. It's already a strong save for Sorcerers, but I like my saves high. Also leads to a better Perception, even if it isn't a class skill. And even then, there's ways of making it a class skill through the Seeker trait. Will and Perception checks are probably the most important things to make, so I like to have these as high as possible without sacrificing too much.
- CHA is used for social skills and UMD. I'm kinda tired of just "being the face." Bards have enough skill points and class abilities that they're also good at knowledges and versatile performances, but I feel more and more that Sorcerers don't have a whole lot to contribute in the skills department. As I said, not enough ranks to diversify, and no really interesting class skills to spend them on (outside of social skills, I mean).
I arrived at this dilemma because I was theorising what good dips are available. A Monk with the Empyreal bloodline can get Mage Armor off easily and gets a whole slew of interesting class skills, and Empyreal is also great for Ecclesitheurge Clerics who can't wear armour. They can probably get by just using the regular Sorcerer, but why settle for mediocrity?
What are your thoughts?
Between INT and WIS I would go for WIS, even if the skill points are tempting. Both are superior to CHA imo, and therefore an improvement.
From experience in an all-arcane party of 3 sorcerers and a wizard, the Sage bloodline had its benefits because it let one of us be the one with the skills, so to speak. Admittedly, as the player of that sorcerer, I spread my skills into skills that suited my background (Craft (alchemy), Profession (farmer), and so on). One thing you also have to think about is that while a sorcerer has a limited selection of spells known, a few spells can more or less replace certain skills (e.g. invisibility for Stealth, alarm for some uses of Perception, fly for Climb, etc.), reducing the need for those skills. More importantly, there are many traits, feats, class features, and whatnot that allow you to employ a given stat for an unusual use (replacing Intelligence with Charisma on a skill check, for example). Really, the ability score you use doesn't matter all that much given you can probably find ways to make it work for you regardless.
"Best" is subjective or, at the very least, situational, as you have already noted, i.e. it depends. If you favor skills, INT, if you don't want to be charmed, running in fear, or setting off a trap, WIS. My preference is likely WIS just because there are so many other INT options that I like better.
Will and intelligence are definitely better than CHA in a vacuum. But you can't examine without looking at the bloodlines themselves. Empyreal kinda sucks. The only good power in Celestial was wings and that gets lost. There's plenty of ways to boost your will save and still get a worthwhile bloodline.
Sage is much better, as Arcane rocks, but you lose two really solid powers as a cost got being INT based. How badly do you really need skills when you have so many spells per day to make skill checks irrelevant? And if INT is so important, why not just play a wizard?
IMO, Sorcerers are worth playing when you are maximizing your bloodline to rock at something. A draconic half orc blaster. A fey kitsune enchanter. Otherwise they don't really have enough going for them to justify playing over wizards, who get spells earlier, can access a more diverse spell pool, and can get school abilities that also rock.
I'm pretty OK with charisma being my primary stat if it allows me access to better powers. Though I've found personally I work best as a high charisma character anyway.
Thing is, you can't just "disregard bloodline powers" when talking about sorcerers casting off of stats other than Cha.
There are exactly two bloodlines that grant you the ability to cast off of other stats, meaning that YOU WILL be using that bloodline's powers and abilities if you desire to cast off of it.
That is, of course, unless your DM allows for wild-blooded and cross-blooded to be combined (by RAW they are not, but even James Jacobs says he house rules this way) and you are comfortable with the hit to Will and spell progression.
So we HAVE to look at the abilities that our bloodlines grant if we're talking about casting off of other stats.
And, IMO, Sage and Empyreal leave much to be desired.
Honestly, unless I was planning on going into a prestige class, I wouldn't dip a spontaneous caster.
The spell loss is too much for me.
That said, if we're talking dips, why not mention dipping Paladin for old fashion Cha casters?
That is a way to go for Dragon Disciple after all.
It's as valid as a Cleric dipping Sorcerer, or vice versa.
Er, I should've been more clear. I was looking into Sorcerer as a dip, so only for a level, maybe two. That means higher bloodline powers aren't as interesting for me. Yes, there are better powers than the Sage/Empyreal level 1 powers, but I won't get to use them all that much.
Unless third party content is allowed(and honestly, tons of it is great and well-balanced despite the stigma) and we can use Spell Finesse. Then it's any bloodline. :)
Intelligence governs skill points and has more skills based on it than charisma. Unless you want to be a "face" character and use alot of charisma skills it is better to switch it out as Charisma is a dump stat in combat.
I didnt know much about the Empyreal Bloodline or Celestial but thei dont offer much other than pretending youre an angel-scion. Wisdom is an important stat for Will saves and Perception, but not much else.
Intelligence feels to me as the winner. You can put your skill points anywhere, and you will get higher intelligence later, meaning even more skill points. You might be able to max out your Knowledge skills.
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Arcane Bloodline is quite good. It adds powers that just make you a better caster and overall better. The Sage sub-bloodline unfortunately loses Arcane Bond for lame Arcane Bolts.
Celestial isnt good. Its abilities are mostly limited to fighting evil, and not great at that.
Not as applicable for you I guess, but I have a Crossblooded Sage/Verdant bloodline sorcerer who only sleeps two hours a night, giving him six extra hours to work on magic item crafting, which is pretty easy due to all his skill points.
Technically Will is better, but I admit this is a lot more fun. :)
Wis is pretty great as a casting stat, you get a lovely will save, then again it's your best save already, Int lets you actually have a decent number of skills. I'd still rather not run sage or empyreal simply because the bloodlines are weak and picking a good bloodline is really important to making your sorcerer work, there's very little reason to go sage over being a wizard, empyreal is a weak bloodline, though if you really need to be wis based then it's your only arcane option. I'd still rather go orc, draconic, elemental, fey, slyvan, abysal etc. for the unique and powerful bloodline arcana and powers.