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Moving a discussion from the advice forum here.
The questions is what constitutes an opportunity for an Attack of Opportunity.
Specifically I'd like to know if the following abilities can be used in conjunction.
Disrupting Counter
At 3rd level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against her, she can spend 1 panache point to make an attack of opportunity against the attacking foe. This attack of opportunity can be made with either a dagger or a starknife. If the attack hits, the opponent takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls until the end of its turn.
Stylish Riposte
When your AC exceeds the result of a foe's melee attack against you by 5 or more, that foe provokes an attack of opportunity from you. Once you make such an attack of opportunity against a foe, you can't again use this trick against the foe that day. If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses. The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made.
I'd argue that each of these abilities presents a seperate opportunity (as the triggers and time points are different). Whereas one could also argue that the opponents attack presents the opportunity. Thank you for your input.
Relevant rules text on AoO
Making an Attack of Opportunity: An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round. You don't have to make an attack of opportunity if you don't want to. You make your attack of opportunity at your normal attack bonus, even if you've already attacked in the round.
An attack of opportunity "interrupts" the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character's turn).
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity bonus to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity).
Ask your GM. There are good arguments for both. I'd lean towards provoking once, since one is simply a subset of the other, even if the timing is slightly different.
So I don't know about the whole "trigger" issue but... some points as to why this is less of a problem then what someone might think:
1) Disrupting counter must be used when an attack is declared/made, that is before the attack roll result is known. Not huge, but something. It also takes a point of panache to do, which isn't nothing.
2) Stylish Riposte is only once per foe per day, so you don't get much mileage out of it. Also you must declare you're using the ability before the attack roll is made, so I think you can waste it if the attack roll doesn't miss by 4 or less.
That's a very pragmatic argument Claxon. Along the same lines I asked myself: Why should they print a feat geared towards one handed combat when said feat doesn't work in conjunction with the games one handed combatant class?
What do you guys think about the combination of Parry and Riposte and Disrupting counter?
At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity; for each size category the attacking creature is larger than the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler takes a –2 penalty on this roll.
I think both Disrupting Counter and Stylish Riposte can be used on the same attack. The use of both are declared at the same time: right after the enemy declares an attack. But when Disrupting Counter lets you make an AoO right away, Stylish Riposte only comes into play after the enemy has made the attack roll (and exceeded AC by 5).
2) Stylish Riposte is only once per foe per day, so you don't get much mileage out of it. Also you must declare you're using the ability before the attack roll is made, so I think you can waste it if the attack roll doesn't miss by 4 or less.
One successful use per foe per day, right? I'm not saying you didn't mean that, I'm just asking for my own sake.
What do you guys think about the combination of Parry and Riposte and Disrupting counter?
Like the previous combo, the use of both abilities is declared at the same time but the actual AoO happens at slightly different times. So, following the same reasoning, I'd have to say 'yes', you can use both on the same attack.
2) Stylish Riposte is only once per foe per day, so you don't get much mileage out of it. Also you must declare you're using the ability before the attack roll is made, so I think you can waste it if the attack roll doesn't miss by 4 or less.One successful use per foe per day, right? I'm not saying you didn't mean that, I'm just asking for my own sake.
It's worded a little oddly so I'm not sure.
The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made.
is the final line of the ability. It can just straight up fail to activate, if the opponent doesn't miss by 5 or more.
In reading the ability over, I think...
1) You must declare you are using the ability when the attack is declared but before it is rolled
2) The attack must miss by 5 or more, if it doesn't miss by at least 5 nothing happens.
3) If nothing happens you can continue to use it because the ability is worded strangely and says "Once you make such an attack of opportunity against a foe, you can't again use this trick against the foe that day". So there is a weird conditional where you fail, but get to keep trying until you succeed on an AoO.
3b) If missed by 5, you make an AoO. Regardless of whether it hits or not you cannot use the ability against the same opponent that day.
In reading the ability over, I think...
1) You must declare you are using the ability when the attack is declared but before it is rolled
2) The attack must miss by 5 or more, if it doesn't miss by at least 5 nothing happens.
3) If nothing happens you can continue to use it because the ability is worded strangely and says "Once you make such an attack of opportunity against a foe, you can't again use this trick against the foe that day". So there is a weird conditional where you fail, but get to keep trying until you succeed on an AoO.
3b) If missed by 5, you make an AoO. Regardless of whether it hits or not you cannot use the ability against the same opponent that day.
That's my understanding as well.
I agree that its a bit odd. There's almost no drawback in using Stylish Riposte on every attack until it works for that particular enemy.
But on the other hand, if only could declare to use it once - no matter if it succeeded or failed, it would suck. There's two conditions to be met, the enemy's attack must hit by 5 or more and you must beat that attack with your own, and neither one is near certain. Most times, you get nothing out of an attempt to use Stylish Riposte, and that's not how a once per day ability should work.
There's two conditions to be met, the enemy's attack must hit by 5 or more and you must beat that attack with your own, and neither one is near certain. Most times, you get nothing out of an attempt to use Stylish Riposte, and that's not how a once per day ability should work.
Actually there's only one condition: your opponent must miss you by 5 or more.
There's two conditions to be met, the enemy's attack must hit by 5 or more and you must beat that attack with your own, and neither one is near certain. Most times, you get nothing out of an attempt to use Stylish Riposte, and that's not how a once per day ability should work.Actually there's only one condition: your opponent must miss you by 5 or more.
Is that because you've misquoted Stylish Riposte in your opening post?
Stylish Riposte
When your AC exceeds the result of a foe's melee attack against you by 5 or more, that foe provokes an attack of opportunity from you. Once you make such an attack of opportunity against a foe, you can't again use this trick against the foe that day.If her result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses.The swashbuckler must declare the use of this ability after the creature's attack is announced, but before its attack roll is made.[/i]
My cursive, which isn't found in the description in on d20pfsrd.
Reading it from there, rather than from your quotes, makes me agree with you. There's only one condition needed - your AC being 5 higher than the attack against you.
And I've been babbling on with a faulty understanding of the trick. Though party of it has been on my part, I read it as the attack needing to be 5 higher than your AC ...
Still, it doesn’t change my original assessment, you can use both Disrupting Counter and Stylish Riposte.