Help building an Arcanist (lv 11, for RotRL)


Advice


Hi all
i would like to prepare a backup character for onging RotRL adventure.
The party is composed by Eldritch fighter (with a mauler fox) (previusly a rogue), Arcane Duelist (previusly a witch), Oracle of life (PNG), an my Warpriest (reach type)

I want build an Arcanist, at level 11, and these are rolled statistics
15 15 9 10 18 12
before any racial and level adjustment.

Race preferred: elf, tiefling (and subtypes), aasimar (and subtypes), human.

Any suggestion ?
thanks!

BHH


I prefer human for the feat. I would go elan, if allowed, but I assume it is core material only.

Stats are arrayed as usual:
STR 10
CON 15
DEX 15
INT 18
WIS 12
CHA 9

Featwise you cannot go far wrong with Improved Initiative, Combat Casting (it might be needed, and then it might not) and Toughness. Then there are Spell Penetration, Empower Spell, Persistent Spell and maybe Bouncing Spell (depends on number of single target SoS spells) to choose from.

For exploits I like Metamixing, Counterspell, Potent Magic, Energy Shield and Dimensional Slide. Since I put CHA as dump stat I will have to avoid exploits based on CHA in some way.
There are more useful exploits, like Quick Study, but usefulness depends a bit on your plans for the caster. A friend of mine plays every character as a fighter, even if the class is wizard, so he would pick different stuff than I.

Spells depend a lot on your preference. You can go for control, for nuker, general toolbox, enchanter, illusionist or whatever.
I remember that the indoor areas in RotR were cramped (at least at first). So I would not use summonings, as there might not be the space for it, nor line of sight. The major NPCs were all dispel-worthy, but dispel is pretty much a standard tool for every caster. You may have to rely upon your own power to protect yourself now and then, so I would pack mirror image, displacement and stoneskin or their like. At one point we met a major NPC in a 5' corridor and she whacked away for 28 damage with her sword. The one at the end of the column got it, and that might be you :)

Our group has two heavy melees, two arcane casters and me as oracle (life). I take care of the buffing and healing and getting the tanks to the enemy, while the sorcerer nukes them and the wizard either nukes or waits with his toolbox. It wouldn't matter what our casters actually do - they may cast illusions, transmutations or death spells, as long as they do something, it works. Since your situation is similar, you are free to pick any direction for your arcanist.

That is pretty much all I can say without a better idea where you want to take the character.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Personally, I would do the stats differently...
You definitely want the 18 in Int
I'd put the 9 in Str cause an 11th level arcanist has no need for Str
Put one of the 15s in Cha so you don't have to avoid Cha based exploits
Put the other 15 in Dex for Initiative and ranged touch attacks (and AC/Ref)
Put the 12 in Con so your hp/Fort aren't completely terrible (but mostly trust your healer)
That leaves Wis for the 10; not ideal for your Will but definitely workable

For race, I like the peri-blooded Aasimar. +2 Int/Cha and a little resistance to most elements (plus I just like aasimars).

From there it really depends on what kind of caster you want to be... Brown-fur transmuter is the best buffer in the game if you want buff the fighter/pet/bard. Or if you want to do more control grab spell focus and improved spell focus, persistent spell, and probably be building towards spell perfection (and grab some wall and environmental spells for things immune to mind-affecting effects). You're definitely going to run into things with SR too so if you're focusing on control/blasting/anything subject to SR you should think about spell penetration and improved penetration.


I like Nate's stat spread better than Vatras'. Only thing I might switch would be CON and CHA in his spread if you choose the Peri-Blooded Aasimar, as CHA 14 (w/racial boost) is enough, and a higher CON helps with both your weak Fortitude save and HP (and can be boosted higher with either your 4th or 8th level ability boost, if you like). But if you went Human, I'd keep the stat spread he suggested.

In terms of the build focus, I think you'll need to decide whether to specialize in control or buffing, as the party composition seems Gish-heavy and I'm guessing they might be very damage-oriented (otherwise, blasting could work, too). If you're interested, I also have a dispel-focused arcanist build I've been toying with...

Brown Fur Transmuter is great at buffing allies from 9th level onwards. For control, no real need for an archetype, but you'll want to consider Spell Focus: Conjuration, probably Persistent Spell, and all the usual tricks of what some call a "God wizard" (look it up and see related guides, if you're interested).

For exploits, I really like:

- Potent Magic (an obvious choice for most builds)

- Quick Study (increases flexibility dramatically)

- Dimensional Slide (not as good as many other similar abilities from other classes, but still a great ability to help get out of a jam, or for other mobility)

- School Understanding, often with the Void school (check out the wording on the Reveal Weakness ability, which ties to caster level, not wizard level.. unlike most other school abilities)

- Bloodline Development, often with the Arcane bloodline to get an arcane bond item (which again offers some great flexlibility to cast something known, but not prepared)

- Metamagic Knowledge (a pre-req for Greater Metamagic Knowledge, and a good way to add a metamagic like Persistent or Quicken Spell to your list, and to build up the pre-reqs for Spell Perfection at 15th level)


The way I ran my arcanist that I found most effective was to maximize versatility. I found most useful aside from potent magic were extra reservoir, quick study, heighten spell, and persistent.

I was able to use any spell I thought was best for the situation. Persistent + height + potent magic targeting the weak save was what I found most effective to ensure the spell landed.

I also grab the teleportation school ability to get out of grapples. Using school of understanding.

I played a wayang and it worked really well for this build. They are thematically fun. It may be worth considering.


Malkin the Magician wrote:

The way I ran my arcanist that I found most effective was to maximize versatility. I found most useful aside from potent magic were extra reservoir, quick study, heighten spell, and persistent.

I was able to use any spell I thought was best for the situation. Persistent + height + potent magic targeting the weak save was what I found most effective to ensure the spell landed.

I also grab the teleportation school ability to get out of grapples. Using school of understanding.

I played a wayang and it worked really well for this build. They are thematically fun. It may be worth considering.

This is good advice, though I've never been a fan of Heighten Spell metamagic myself. Persistent is great, and given you can't stack Heighten with anything else without independently increasing the spell level*, I'd probably stick with the former as the primary means to try to ensure lower level spells stick.

The anti-grapple trick of picking up the Shift ability from Conjuration (Teleportation) school (with School Understanding exploit) is also a good one, but with some limitations.

Firstly, you'll only ever get to use it as a level 1 wizard and move 5 ft, because the action to use it as a higher level wizard (swift) conflicts/overlaps with the action to use the Shift ability (also swift). I believe the rules are clear that you can only ever use one swift action in a turn, and can't "trade down" a move or standard action for a swift.

Secondly, while even just 5 ft. can get you out of the grapple, the fact it works "as Dimension Door" suggests you won't get any further actions afterwards (such as to pair with Dimension Slide to get even further away), so it may offer only a temporary reprieve from the grappler, who will remain right next to you, unless removed by an ally in the interim.

*: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qpo


Good catch on the teleportation for some reason I thought it was a move action teleport. I still like the power but it is less useful now.


Just an FYI the link you posted says you can combine them but only up to the total level of a spell you can cast. So heighten persistent grease at level 5 is a 3rd level grease that you roll twice for. Then you can add an additional +2 for potent magic.

A Corset of Delicate Moves will allow you to pull the trick once a day. If you are an arcane caster don't get grappled twice a day. Or start preping force sphere.


How set are you to being a Arcanist?

I was going to build one till I spotted the Exploit Wizard. this Wizard archetype gives you access to Arcane Points like the Arcanist and the Arcanists exploits every 4 levels.

You do have to give up your favor schools and the Arcane Bond/Familiar that a normal wizard gets.

So at 11th level you'd have -
8 Arcane points in your arcane reservoir.
3 Arcanist Exploits

While having all the basic normal 11th level wizard stuff.


Thanks all for suggestion!

i am going to follow Nate Lange hint!

about feat this will be my list

traits:
reactionary (+2 init)
Magical Lineage: snowball

1 feat Improved Initiative
1 arcana Potent Magic
3 feat Toughness ???
3 arcana Energy Shield
5 feat Extra Arcana: Metamagic Knowledge: Persistent Spell
5 arcana Quick Study
7 feat Ice Missile
7 arcana Dimensional Slide
9 feat Dazing Spell
9 arcana Intesified Spell
11 feat Greater Metamagic Knowledge (Floating Metamagic Feat)
11 arcana Metamixing (apply a metamagic feat without altering casting time)
13 feat Counterspell
13 arcana Greater Counterspell
15 feat Spell Perfection
15 arcana Quicken Spell

since i have CON 16 i don't know if toughness is needed or can be skipped and take some other feat/arcane exploit

pretty simple and standard (but should be fuctional) ?

BHH


You won't need Toughness with that CON.

And you have only one exploit where CHA comes into play (ice missile), where it can be disregarded. Don't go MAD with your stats when you don't have to.

The only thing you might want to fit in somewhere is Spell Penetration. It could take the place of the 3rd level feat.

And yes, sure it will work :)


Malkin the Magician wrote:

Just an FYI the link you posted says you can combine them but only up to the total level of a spell you can cast. So heighten persistent grease at level 5 is a 3rd level grease that you roll twice for. Then you can add an additional +2 for potent magic.

A Corset of Delicate Moves will allow you to pull the trick once a day. If you are an arcane caster don't get grappled twice a day. Or start preping force sphere.

Right. Applying Heighten requires an independent increase to spell level, in addition to other metamagic. So I think we both agree that a Persistent, Heightened Grease with a DC equivalent of a 3rd level spell uses a 5th level slot.

For those who are having trouble (as Heighten metamagic is a bit weird), it is best to proceed as the FAQ suggests by adding Heighten first, then the other metamagic. So in this case, you Heighten Grease to 3rd level (ie +2 to the spell level), then add Persistent for another +2 (to 5th level). DC remains equivalent to a 3rd level spell.

Where Malkin and I may disagree is whether that's a worthwhile investment in terms of increasing the spell level, as well as uses a feat to get Heighten Spell. I don't think it is, though I can see how it might be a useful means of getting some extra life/utility out of low level spells, such as Grease. Especially so for Arcanists who have limited spell selections per day.

The FAQ actually goes further to call it a weak metamagic feat, with limited utility when combined with other metamagic feats. That is probably true for Wizards, but not as much for Arcanists.

--------

From the FAQ:

For (2), you can't apply Heighten Spell to a spell at no cost: any increase to the effective spell level of the spell must be tracked and paid for by using a higher-level spell slot, above and beyond any other spell level increases from the other metamagic feats.
Example: A 15th-level wizard has Quicken Spell. If he prepares a quickened fireball, that requires a 7th-level spell slot (fireball 3rd level + quicken 4 levels). The spell's DC is still 13 + his Int bonus because it's still just a 3rd-level spell, even though it's in a 7th-level spell slot. If he also has Heighten Spell, the spell is not automatically heightened; it still counts as a 3rd-level spell and has the DC of a 3rd-level spell. If he wants to increase the quickened fireball's effective level with Heighten Spell, he needs to use an even higher level spell slot than the adjusted spell level from the Quicken Spell feat. Increasing the fireball's effective spell level by +1 (from 3rd to 4th) requires using a spell slot +1 level higher (in this case, an 8th-level spell slot instead of a 7th-level slot); increasing the fireball's effective spell level by +2 (from 3rd to 5th) requires using a spell slot +2 levels higher (in this case, a 9th-level spell slot instead of a 7th-level slot).

Another way to look at (2) it is to add Heighten Spell first, then other metamagic feats. Continuing the above example, you'd first heighten the fireball to a 4th-level spell, then quicken it, which requires an 8th-level spell slot (fireball 4th level + quicken 4 levels). Or first heighten the fireball to a 5th-level spell, then quicken it, which requires a 9th-level spell slot (fireball 5th level + quicken 4 levels).

(Heighten Spell is a weak metamagic feat and has limited utility when combined with other metamagic feats.)


buzzqw wrote:

Thanks all for suggestion!

i am going to follow Nate Lange hint!

about feat this will be my list

traits:
reactionary (+2 init)
Magical Lineage: snowball

1 feat Improved Initiative
1 arcana Potent Magic
3 feat Toughness ???
3 arcana Energy Shield
5 feat Extra Arcana: Metamagic Knowledge: Persistent Spell
5 arcana Quick Study
7 feat Ice Missile
7 arcana Dimensional Slide
9 feat Dazing Spell
9 arcana Intesified Spell
11 feat Greater Metamagic Knowledge (Floating Metamagic Feat)
11 arcana Metamixing (apply a metamagic feat without altering casting time)
13 feat Counterspell
13 arcana Greater Counterspell
15 feat Spell Perfection
15 arcana Quicken Spell

since i have CON 16 i don't know if toughness is needed or can be skipped and take some other feat/arcane exploit

pretty simple and standard (but should be fuctional) ?

BHH

Will definitely work, though I think I would probably forego the Energy Shield and Ice Missile exploits in favour of some extra (non-exploit) feats, such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, etc.

And with all those exploits, you may find yourself a bit short on arcane reservoir points to use, so I might consider Extra Reservoir as a feat somewhere along the way.


Personally, I would change improved iniative to familiar. You can get your +4 to iniative and you get alertness etc.

Energy shield is a little on the weak side. I would consider see magic. I got a lot of use out of it.

If your looking for a great dazing spell consider snap dragon fireworks heightened and dazing. You can move action hit another person with it and if you heighten it you get rounds of daze.

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