I'm curious how other games run with resting? Does your GM make it an interesting/difficult/special. Do you enjoy/disagree with how it's managed?
In my first game, resting was handled as a non event (you've rested-on with story). Unfortunately my first game as GM, I handled it the same way and began to notice the problems with hand waved sleeping.
By making resting so easy, it encouraged players to rest often, then nuke encounters, which is really annoying for encounter design.
In my current game as GM I've made it point to make resting rather involved, with players thinking about who's on watch, deciding on whether to wear armour, consider whether to light a fire and think about carefully about location. I like to make it a point that players really need to think about whether they need to really rest or not.
At this point in time I'm thinking about maybe a situational bonus for those who invest in comfortable sleeping equipment. Or possibly a roll to replicate getting a good night's rest.
Anyway curious how it's handled in other gaming groups!
I'm curious how other games run with resting? Does your GM make it an interesting/difficult/special. Do you enjoy/disagree with how it's managed?
In my first game, resting was handled as a non event (you've rested-on with story). Unfortunately my first game as GM, I handled it the same way and began to notice the problems with hand waved sleeping.
By making resting so easy, it encouraged players to rest often, then nuke encounters, which is really annoying for encounter design.In my current game as GM I've made it point to make resting rather involved, with players thinking about who's on watch, deciding on whether to wear armour, consider whether to light a fire and think about carefully about location. I like to make it a point that players really need to think about whether they need to really rest or not.
At this point in time I'm thinking about maybe a situational bonus for those who invest in comfortable sleeping equipment. Or possibly a roll to replicate getting a good night's rest.
Anyway curious how it's handled in other gaming groups!
Our group normally has six players so our over night watch has three shifts over twelve hours with two characters on at a time. When we get to mid levels we usually have at least two characters with a ring of sustenance allowing us to have three people on watch for at least two shifts.
We regularly have minor encounters at night so we are careful about where we camp. The quality of the location chosen is usually determined by a survival check.
Just don't allow resting to kick in bonuses more than once per 24-hour period. Tell them they're just not tired enough yet. And that their magic can't be renewed until the next day.
And if your players decide their characters are going to break out the lawn chairs and the barbie after each and every encounter... well, you can deal with that too:
- The encounter comes to them. And again. And again. No rest for the wicked.
- The bad guys realize what danger they're facing and bugger off.
- Time-sensitive factors come into play: captives get eaten, the girlfriend's curse turns her demonic, the creeping plague infests the hinterlands.
The way to avoid the "nova" effect is to keep the conflict going after the players think the fight should have finished. There are always more mooks to juggle, another boss to fight. There is always a bigger fish.
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As a player I have always had someone post guard because you never know when Team Evil might show up.
As a GM I don't "make" the players do anything, but depending on the situation they may be disturbed. So far nobody has ever tried to spend the night sleeping without at least one person on guard unless they were in a demiplane.
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Just don't allow resting to kick in bonuses more than once per 24-hour period. Tell them they're just not tired enough yet. And that their magic can't be renewed until the next day.
I thought that was the case for spells and limited-daily-use abilities anyway?
It depends on the situation. Resting is typically a non-event for the games I've been in (both as a player and GM), though if we're off in the wilds or something we'll make sure to have someone on a rotating watch just in case. If we're out of resources in the midst of an enemy stronghold, finding someplace to rest safely will definitely pose more trouble.
But resting after every few encounters seems a bit excessive...we pretty much rest when our spellcasters are running pretty low on spells (or if we're going into something big and we know we won't get the chance again for awhile).
Random encounters aplenty!!!
For games I GM, resting is typically a non-event although every time I ask them for a watch order (they generally just make a list once and then I use that list unless they state otherwise so it doesn't waste too much game time). If I'm feeling trolly, I'll roll a lot of dice and then tell them about things they hear way off in the distance to set them on edge. Every once in a while I'll throw an actual encounter at them while they're resting (wild animals investigating the fire, a roving band of marauders that were following them, etc.)
If the party is in an unsafe or open area, I have them decide if they'll take precautions or not. They usually do "watch in shifts". I kept the bit about elves not sleeping but meditating four hours, so if there's an elf in the party they usually take every shift after the first.
I'll roll even if I don't plan to have anything attack, just to keep up the appearance.
If they're someplace safe or sheltered I generally don't worry about it. I don't have anything attack in a place like that unless it's plot related.
Also, sleeping for the night restores all missing HP in my games.
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Our group rests as little as possible.
That's not because of overly punitive DM's - in fact, resting itself is often a handwaved event.
But it's the culture of our group to push as far as we possibly can. Hard to say why, but there are a couple reasons, I suspect.
* We enjoy being challenged and enjoy challenging ourselves. We're stingy with our limited use abilities, and their use is considered carefully and even discussed if it's the last use of something particularly potent.
* We've managed - on a couple occasions - to earn enough xp to gain two levels at once. We find this an exceptional rush, a fun achievement, and we're always looking for the next chance to pull it off.
* Most of us DM. We tend to rotate DM's with each adventure path. Our houserules are our group's houserules, and these kinds of decisions are made as a group. We're an extremely cooperative bunch.
i usually handle resting as either roleplaying u winding in a cavern or campsite on the way to their destination. When we are in a "dungeon", my players don't stop and rest spam because for some reason they feel like if they do, the objective will fail. Once they go in, they go as far as they can because if they stop, they feel like the smart thing the enemy will do is gather all its forces together and encounter them then. If they do have to leave and rest (they've never rested inside unless it was a secret room or something that is VERY VERY safe), they do it very reluctantly.
Bless my group, love them to death :)
One often overlooked rule is that you can't prepare a full set of new divine spells after a rest. Clerics get one set of spells per day.
that's actually not true. read the next section.
Spell Selection and Preparation: A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
italicized emphasis mine.
The most objective way to look at this is to put your perspective in the player's, or to be more accurate, the PC's, shoes. The environment has a lot to do with whether resting is safe (relatively speaking), dangerous, or outright suicidal.
Trying to sleep in a BBEG's lair, beckons for either retaliation (by sending minions or going himself and launching an ambush), or missed opportunity if the BBEG feels he is being encroached and needs to survive, and decides to pick up all his belongings and hightail it out of there.
Sleeping out in a wilderness area, or some other area during travel does invite danger, but nowhere near as much as being in the lair of a BBEG; some things might lurk where you rest, some don't, it's really a matter of random chance.
Ironically enough, even sleeping in a tavern/inn may not be the smartest choice, especially if timing is crucial. Your target may be right under your nose, or even a threat you aren't aware of.
In any case, not setting up watches is a foolish mistake, one that many an adventurers who do make that mistake, don't live long enough to tell you how big of a mistake it is. I mean, consider that you're in an environment that anything and everything is out to get you, whether it's the wildlife, some brigand/cutpurse, or even a mad wizard because you looked at him funny.
As I've said before, if you aren't sure how resting/recuperation should be handled, change your perspective, put yourself in the shoes of the PCs, and think "Is this safe? Should we do this? What can happen if I follow through with this decision?"
If the situation pushes the PCs to keep on adventuring for days on end it can make the Bard's Mass Invigorate spell pretty cool.
In most games I'm in there are 3 watches and some wandering monster rolls when the party rests, typically one per watch, one per PC, or whatever the module/AP recommends. If something shows up the DM rolls randomly to determine which watch it appears during. We try to pay some attention to making sure there's somebody with a good Perception on each watch.
My Monk/Druid from several campaigns ago often used to sleep wildshaped into an elemental so he'd be immune to sneak attacks and crits (and therefore coup de grace)
If we're in an unfriendly area we take watches (with those with better vision at night taking the middle watch) while the DM rolls randomly for wandering monsters (or inserts a not-so-random encounter if they have something planned). If present, any elves have a four-hour meditation early on and either cover the sleep of others or keeps them company / explores the camp perimeter.
If we're in a fortress / trusted town we might ditch watches and just get a good night's rest.
One often overlooked rule is that you can't prepare a full set of new divine spells after a rest. Clerics get one set of spells per day.that's actually not true. read the next section.
Spell Selection and Preparation: A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.italicized emphasis mine.
That doesn't change the fact that the slots used from 8am to 8:15am are used for the day and are only renewed at 6am the next day. (Times just examples)
The table of the cleric (and really, all spellcasters) lists spells per day.
If you leave spell-slots open to be later filled, yes, you can fill them later. Doesn't give you back used slots though. That's what Derek345 meant.
One often overlooked rule is that you can't prepare a full set of new divine spells after a rest. Clerics get one set of spells per day.that's actually not true. read the next section.
Spell Selection and Preparation: A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.italicized emphasis mine.
You are incorrect. You get to use a specific slot once per day. Nobody said you have to fill all of your slots at once though.
The difficulty of sleeping in armor is something I've seen a fair number of tables gloss over. I like to at least let folks sleep in reduced/partial armor (reducing chainmail to chain shirt or full plate to breastplate, for instance)
Mithral breastplate, which counts as light armor, is probably the most common armor at mid to high levels, but my lower level PCs will often keep a chain shirt or leather lamellar handy as pajamas.
Rings of Sustenance can be a good investment for campaigns where the DM pulls no punches regarding encounters in camp. Getting attacked while you're flat-footed and in light or no armor can be pretty deadly.
Random encounters aplenty!!!
Having lots of random encounters encourages people to rest even more frequently because you have to conserve extra resources to defend against attacks in the middle of the night.
One often overlooked rule is that you can't prepare a full set of new divine spells after a rest. Clerics get one set of spells per day.that's actually not true. read the next section.
Spell Selection and Preparation: A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. When preparing spells for the day, a cleric can leave some of her spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes. During these extra sessions of preparation, she can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if she prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.italicized emphasis mine.That doesn't change the fact that the slots used from 8am to 8:15am are used for the day and are only renewed at 6am the next day. (Times just examples)
The table of the cleric (and really, all spellcasters) lists spells per day.
If you leave spell-slots open to be later filled, yes, you can fill them later. Doesn't give you back used slots though. That's what Derek345 meant.
you're right. i misread what he said.
My campaign is in an urban setting, so they just go their homes.
I see a larger picture being the variable too.
Is this a game where time matters? Is the progression of story such that every day that passes means the badguys get further along their goals. Not all adventures go this route, some are more free form, but others "You have 20 days to get this done or the world ends".
If time is important, then each rest takes off 1 day of stuff. Could the party have pressed on and pressured their foes? Did instead this give the foes time to do other things like fortify or otherwise move towards their goals, etc?
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Things that make resting into a tactical/strategic decision:
- Daily uses are daily. Resting more than once per day doesn't give them back faster. Most divine abilities are regained at a set daily moment, arcane abilities after 8 hours of rest (which doesn't have to be totally consecutive). In either case, anything cast in the last 8 hours counts against today's limit, not yesterday. ("Recent casting limit", Magic chapter).
- You can only travel overland for 8 hours before fatigue rears its head. Likewise, item crafting and library research are only fruitful for 8 hours per day tops.
- If your camp is in a dangerous area, you may face dangers. Sleeping in light armor is an option of course. A watch schedule is a good idea. Since your "workday" is more or less capped at 8 hours anyway, there's no loss in resting for say 12 hours. That allows a 6-person party to have two people on watch all the time. (Remember that animals and familiars, especially with scent or darkvision, are fine just for detecting enemies.)
- The world continues to move. If you take a day of rest after every encounter, all your enemies have LOTS of time to enact their schemes.
- When the party initially enters a "dungeon" area, enemies are maybe not on alert for the PCs. If the PCs pull back and rest, that gives enemies time to regroup and perhaps start a search for the intruders. What was at first multiple level-appropriate encounters can then combine into much harder, more prepared enemy groups.
- Enemies that survive the PCs initial assault or come across the remains of other enemies may decide to pack up and leave with any MacGuffins.
Resting can't always be avoided, but I find that the above items keep the party from overdoing it. They'll generally try to make it to a "milestone" before breaking, where the local area or objective is secured.
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It's also harder to control as a DM at higher levels. Rope Trick, Tiny Hut and Secure shelter all make it harder for DMs to target resting party members. As well a DM should not force the issue. I'm not saying don't do anything if the group rests too much. Don't over do it either. Otherwise end of the world or not. Players are going to sit back and not rush to save it low on resources.
When I was GMing home games 2/3rds of the quests tend to have a hard or soft timeline, something that makes stopping to rest early a big picture vs small picture tactical decision.
Recently I've been playing in PFS games where resting is hand waved unless something is going to happen. And I really like that way now, it is less game time focused on the irrelevant and more time playing the parts of the game I enjoy; combat and roleplaying. As for being able to stop for a rest with the PFS games, some times you are able to stop and take a break, sometimes if you try someone else will steal the loot and you will fail the mission.
This is where a pen and paper game can really differentiate itself from a computer game. Some examples of things I have done and may do;
* PCs defeated all the guardians and disabled a field that trapped a BBEG before resting, she gathered a few forces around her and made the boss fight significantly tougher (an intelligent person would get reinforcement if most of their forces had been wiped out).
* The PCs clear out a tower where a young dragon has made his lair using lots of fire spells to take out the frost trolls but stop before reaching the top, the dragon hires a cleric to protect him (resist energy) and the group encounter a group of 'engineers' at the base of the tower in the process of trapping the front door (other traps have also been set up in the tower).
* Tbe PCs are exploring a dungeon, find a group of bandits and deals with them. They leave one alive whom they interrogate, they learn that the real threat is a snake creature and lets the bandit go before going back to town to rest. The snake creature will kill a key prisoner that would have been useful to the PCs investigations (but not critical) and will likely shift some of the guards around.
If you take a rest before the BBEG is dealt with that gives them just a little bit more time to be ready when you arrive. In game terms that means you will need to still expend some resources before you can face them or that you will need more to deal with the BBEG encounter itself.
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We have a Gentleman's Agreement, don't abuse resting (no 15 minute adventuring day) and you wont be attacked while resting and killed (assuming you take some appropriate precautions like rope trip, tiny hut, etc).
When out adventuring or in a dungeon, the party has to keep watch. I don't toss out random encounters every night. Usually it is location based, if there is likely going to be monsters or predators out at night... They should expect a fight.
Usually its a hand wave and no one has asked to rest any extra during the day time hours. There is stuff to get done, can't be lolly gagging or just sitting on their asses.
Toss in some more random encounters or start implementing time based strategies. That is a solid suggestion.
We have a Gentleman's Agreement, don't abuse resting (no 15 minute adventuring day) and you wont be attacked while resting and killed (assuming you take some appropriate precautions like rope trip, tiny hut, etc).I like this and I might have to have it printed up and have the players sign a copy before each campaign.
MDC
Yeah, its a good rule of thumb for tables. "Look guys, don't abuse the system, and I won't abuse the system." :)
I always have them set up watches and any precautions they want (assuming they have sufficient time).
If the PCs are resting in the wilderness they might be attacked. I usually roll a d100. On an 80 or higher, they're attacked. If they're resting in a particularly dangerous area, 50 or higher means they're attacked. The die roll stuff only applies to random encounters. If I have one planned as part of the plot then I'm just gonna do it (unless they find some way around it).
When they're resting in a dungeon I usually have a group of monsters from further in stumble upon them if it makes sense in context.
I should have expanded on my original post. If the players are in a wilderness or dungeon setting, I usually hand wave resting unless I have an encounter planned for what would normally be their downtime.
I always have them set up watches and any precautions they want (assuming they have sufficient time).
If the PCs are resting in the wilderness they might be attacked. I usually roll a d100. On an 80 or higher, they're attacked. If they're resting in a particularly dangerous area, 50 or higher means they're attacked. The die roll stuff only applies to random encounters. If I have one planned as part of the plot then I'm just gonna do it (unless they find some way around it).
When they're resting in a dungeon I usually have a group of monsters from further in stumble upon them if it makes sense in context.
This is remarkably similar to how I handle it. So remarkably similar that it's not even worth noting the subtle differences.
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There's a reason for wandering monster tables...
If PCs rest in a dungeon or somewhere else they are trying to get into, the bad guys now have more time to prepare - bring in reinforcements, set up nasty traps, use more advanced tactics, etc.
If the PCs are "resting" outside the door of the big bad, just throw him at them right when they are settling down for the night - with some additional nastiness. Can't sleep in that full-plate armor, amirite? Oh... your spells didn't reset? oh noes!
Dungeons should be run as living things - if they aren't, the PCs have a tremendous advantage. Monsters and bad guys should aggressively attack their aggressors, and not hang back allowing them to rampage through the stronghold.