This is what I said, with the part about drawing a arrow bolded. you were the one that moved that to allowing any free action.
The rules say very clearly that you can take free actions any time you get an action, and sometime even when not taking one (drawing an arrow to load your bow if you have the feat chain to use it for AoO).
In that very same post you also stated
If we accept your opinion creatures with free riders on attacks (grab or trip are common examples) don't get to use them as that is a free action and can't be taken outside your turn.
Now maybe you forgot about the grab, trip, etc FAQ, but to me it looked like a very strong reference to it.
...you were the one that moved that to allowing any free action.
Wait? What? Why did you even bring that point up if you weren't trying to use it back up your position that any free action was allowed as part of a ready? Is this a rational discussion? :) I am making an assumption that based on your stance, and based on you bringing it up to begin with you felt it supported your stance - and wasn't simply a random comment unrelated to anything we are discussing.
If it was a random comment... well it makes having any sort of rules discussion with you an exercise in futility. If it wasn't random, but you no longer feel it is applicable, an honest retraction is acceptable. If there is some other motive for your original comment, I'm open to hearing out your explanation.
On a complete side note:
Drop a item when counterspelling: you were able to counterspell without dropping it? If so, yes. If you need to free your hands, no, because you can't take your readied action.
I find this response most bizarre. Given you can take a free action as part another action.
You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
Why would it matter if your hands were full at the beginning or not? At the beginning of your action to counterspell (which is during your counterspell action), drop the item. This wouldn't be any different than:
"At the beginning of your standard action attack, place your second hand on the weapon to get 1.5x strength bonus."
That actually reminds of another rules result that your interpretation allows that I expect most GM's would balk at.
I'm wielding a two handed weapon. I have the deflect arrows feat. I ready an action to make an attack if someone shoots an arrow at me. Someone shoots an arrow at me, my ready goes off and I attack something. As a free action packaged with my readied action I release one hand from my weapon, then use deflect arrows to block the arrow. This is one issue your rules viewpoint leads to, unless of course you house rule that your hand isn't free for some reason because it was just used in an attack (a tenuous position since the readied action is resolved before the triggering event).
This is not the same thing. There is a difference between taking a free action as part of another action, and being able to take a free action during another action. The rules say the latter, and you are extending it to the former. If you can't see the difference between those positions that could be the reason for some of the disagreement.
With the former you are claiming the free action doesn't matter because its part of the other action, with the latter they are independent but occur at roughly the same time.
If I have quick draw, a 16+ BAB, and a stack of thrown weapons, how many attacks can I make DURING my full attack action? Answer 4, because quick draw lets me use a free action to draw a weapon, and I can take a free action during (or as part of) my full attack action.
For your handed-ness example: you can't switch handed-ness outside your turn, why would you think you can? It is specifically a free action to change handed-ness, and there is a FAQ that specifically calls out that you can't change your grip outside your turn because it is a free action. You also seem to be extending the Attack Action (which is a standard action) to any action in which you make an attack, which again is not the same thing. See Full Attack action, Opportunity Attack, Spellcasting, Spring Attack, Vital Strike, Cleave, etc.
Oh, I'm very aware of this. I'm pointing out that Diego Rossi's loose interpretation of when you can take a free action doesn't actually match what the rules say.
But thanks for pointing out yet another FAQ response that shows Diego's view as incompatible with what the rules actually say.
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This is what I said, with the part about drawing a arrow bolded. you were the one that moved that to allowing any free action.
The rules say very clearly that you can take free actions any time you get an action, and sometime even when not taking one (drawing an arrow to load your bow if you have the feat chain to use it for AoO).In that very same post you also stated
If we accept your opinion creatures with free riders on attacks (grab or trip are common examples) don't get to use them as that is a free action and can't be taken outside your turn.
Now maybe you forgot about the grab, trip, etc FAQ, but to me it looked like a very strong reference to it.
...you were the one that moved that to allowing any free action.
Wait? What? Why did you even bring that point up if you weren't trying to use it back up your position that any free action was allowed as part of a ready? Is this a rational discussion? :) I am making an assumption that based on your stance, and based on you bringing it up to begin with you felt it supported your stance - and wasn't simply a random comment unrelated to anything we are discussing.
If it was a random comment... well it makes having any sort of rules discussion with you an exercise in futility. If it wasn't random, but you no longer feel it is applicable, an honest retraction is acceptable. If there is some other motive for your original comment, I'm open to hearing out your explanation.
bbangerter you are the one that changed my statement from "you can take one or more free actions as part of a ready action" to "you can take one or more free actions outside of your turn" and often replied to the second statement instead of the first.
The two thing aren't the same.You are convinced that the readied action is totally outside your turn. My position is that the readied action is the completion of your turn.
Again, "while taking another action" and "as part of" are not the same thing. I think you are missing that. "As part of" means its not a separate action at all. A "no action", which is defined separately from a "free action".
Your next example is a strawman argument. I agree that you can take free actions to draw weapons (assuming quickdraw as you did, or ammunition) during a full attack action (which can only be on your turn) using all of your iterative attacks with thrown weapons, but you are phrasing it in such a way as if I didn't agree. Why are we talking about free actions during your own turn again? We already know we can do those.
So I cannot talk while walking? I cannot drop something in the middle of a full attack, or while walking? None of those are "part of" the action in question. "As part of" does not mean it still isn't a free action. One way to read "as part of" is "while" - which remains internally consistent with making full attacks with ranged weapons, and still allows walking, talking, and chewing bubble gum at the same time.
I understand the distinction you are trying to make. I just don't believe there is a meaningful distinction to be made there.
So lets not mention: haste(say: boots), flurry(unchained monk), rapid shot, flurry of stars (ninja 2, swift action), for 7 attacks at highest bonus + iteratives at -5/-10/-15. And you don't even need quickdraw because Shuriken are ammunition for purposes of drawing. And because we are not using two weapon fighting, this is all with 1 hand. Add in Startoss Style and blend on medium-high.
Sigh. Does it really need to be said "unless other rules come into play"? When I discuss rules I always try to use the most basic components possible. To often that people confuse a situation by trying to understand the most complex combination possible, when the simple and basic situation would lay out the rules easily, and once the basic rules are understood it is a simple matter to deal with the rules exceptions.
bbangerter you are the one that changed my statement from "you can take one or more free actions as part of a ready action" to "you can take one or more free actions outside of your turn" and often replied to the second statement instead of the first.
The two thing aren't the same.
Diego, when you bring up two FAQ's that don't have anything to do with readied actions as support for your position, I'm really not sure what else you expected me to infer about your position.
When you state things like
You consider that list exhaustive?
In reference to trip, grab, push, pull - and don't state any claims or limitations to where that list should end, again what else am I supposed to infer from your position except that ANY free action can be taken outside of your turn?
When you state
As I already said, it is a circular argument. You say "you can take free actions only during your turn". I say "you can take free actions every time you take an action".
Again, what else am I supposed to infer from your position except that you believe you can take any free action outside of your turn so long as you are taking an action? When you combine that with the two FAQs that YOU brought up, how else am I supposed to interpret your meaning except that you believe whether from readied action or AoO you can take ANY free action outside of your turn?
You are convinced that the readied action is totally outside your turn. My position is that the readied action is the completion of your turn.
Now if we want to talk about just this aspect, we can. I believe as I do because that is what the rules actually say.
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun.
The rules plainly state your turn is over. They plainly state that your readied action, if triggered, takes place before your next turn has begun. They make no mention of it temporarily being your turn again, or that there is a metaphysical turn. You are free to say you don't think that is RAI, but it is clearly, plainly, unequivocally RAW. Let's get the RAW straight first, then we can discuss further, if we feel like it, what the RAI is. (Though I think we've largely already done that, your feeling on RAI is that it is still your turn when you trigger your readied action - and I disagree with that view and feel the RAI matches the RAW here).
On a complete side note:
That actually reminds of another rules result that your interpretation allows that I expect most GM's would balk at.
I'm wielding a two handed weapon. I have the deflect arrows feat. I ready an action to make an attack if someone shoots an arrow at me. Someone shoots an arrow at me, my ready goes off and I attack something. As a free action packaged with my readied action I release one hand from my weapon, then use deflect arrows to block the arrow. This is one issue your rules viewpoint leads to, unless of course you house rule that your hand isn't free for some reason because it was just used in an attack (a tenuous position since the readied action is resolved before the triggering event).
I'm scratching my head at why I'd balk at that personally.
I'd let you do that with an AoO too, incidentally.