Sap Adept / Master and Ranged Weapons

[Dustin Knight]

So the Sap Master / Adept Feats from Ultimate Combat should work with ranged weapons capable of dealing nonlethal sneak attack damage (such as a +1 Merciful Sling), if used within 20 feet, right?

What about the Frostbite Sling's snowballs from Ultimate Equipment?

[Count Countula]

Ranged sneak attack is valid within 30' base. It has to be used with a bludgeoning attack and, while it might work for the bullets/stones with the right feats, the snowballs are cold damage not bludgeoning.

[Dustin Knight]

Ah, thank you for that catch! I was so close!

I'm still tempted to pick up a (+1 merficul) gun. But even with the Rogue Talent, PFS requires you take the Gunsmithing feat too.

I guess I'll stick to a +1 Merciful Sling.

[Mechanical Pear]

Can you use Blunt Arrows in PFS? Bludgeoning, and you can do nonlethal damage, with a -4 to hit. I'd still make the bow Merciful, but it's still an option.

[Zwordsman]

EDIT: oh this is for pfs? i'm not sure how useful this will be.. and i don't know what PFS's decision on snap line is either.

.....I'm pretty sure pistosl do B and P at the same time? Shouldn't that be perfectly valid for sap master line?

That, with Snap Attack could be pretty useful.. depending on your GM.
Some count the ability to threaten to allow the flatfoodedness from flanking to work for you. Others will not because Flanking was written in core where snap shot line didn't exist.. and it specifies "melee attack"

I'm one of many who believe the snap feat really are meant to provide flanking and flatfootedness. Specific trump general..but sadly specific wasn't worded well enough to fully bypass the general.
SO. ask your boss about that one if your interested~

Though sling is dangerouns that close for sneak attack, unless its just for starting off before switching weapons
in pfs dipping gunslinger might be more efficient than the gunsmithing feat.

[Dustin Knight]

You can't take a -4 to make a weapon non-lethal and get Sap Master (or sneak attack) damage. You can use a Merciful Weapon or something like Salt(something) Bullets from Halflings of Golarion that only deal nonlethal damage. That's what I'm currently doing, and I've had my sling for a while so that's cool.

No need to worry about switching weapons. I use unarmed strikes.

My build uses "Scout" to flatfoot on a charge, and I frequently find myself having to spend rounds "setting up the charge" to make people flat-footed. Of course in the first round a healthy initiative and/or the use of stealth is enough. The problem with Gunslinger is even with the rogue talent that lets you use guns, you need a second feat (or a level in Gunslinger) to actually be able to buy guns in PFS.

Don't get me wrong, if I ever hit level 15, I have room for that in my build. But I really want that 10th level of Unchained Scout Rogue, level of Sleepless Detective, 2 levels of Snakestrike Brawler and level of Pathfinder Field Agent. That's 14d6+14 nonlethal Sneak at level 13/14, with +14 to my AC (stacking) and +7 to my saves if I hit. But I intentionally don't make plans post level 12 beyond the realm of pure fantasy speculation (Vulpine Pounce would be nice).

[thaX]

My character took Bludgeoner feat, and have used the regular sling to effect the non-lethal sneak attack in play.

prd wrote:

Bludgeoner (Combat)

You can knock foes out cold with just about any blunt instrument.

Benefit: You take no penalty on attack rolls for using a lethal bludgeoning weapon to deal nonlethal damage.

Normal: You take a –4 penalty on attack rolls when using a lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage. You cannot use a lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack.

Special: A rogue with this feat can use a lethal bludgeoning weapon to deal nonlethal damage with a sneak attack.