| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
No, not the Profession part. The entire motivation of one of my characters =|
My Paladin of Rowdrosh is a nomadic Zenj Human with the Farmstead Vanity. Whenever he makes money via his Day Job (which isn't much) he turns around and uses all of it to purchase livestock Trade Goods. Eventually, when his herd reached a value of 500gp, his plan was to cash it in as a dowry and "purchase" a wife (the 500gp Slave from Adventurers Armory). I mirrored his whole character concept off of real life cultural practices today.
There's no detailed write-up on Rowdrosh ("The Divine Herdsman") in Inner Sea Gods, so I drafted up a Paladin Code for him. In it, and via his roleplay, I liken the legitimacy of lawful slave ownership to herding animals. For it would be hypocritical to tell a Human that they couldn't own a Halfling while he walks away with a herd of goats in tow.
So YOUR writeup of a lawful good deity is one that equates People with chattel livestock? Then again, it reminds me of what I say when they consider their god as "Shepherd" of their flock. I ask them that in the end, what does as a shepherd take from their flock? And the answer of course is...all they have... including their lives.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
|
Public representation of PFS is a big issue and we should all consider how bad this perception can be... the very last thing we need is people assuming that PFS is a game about torture, slavers and worse things.
Some options are just not suitable to a public global campaign, and as others have mentioned, there are other privat options to explore things like this.
---
Regarding the issue of playing with players with whose characters do pretty reprehensible acts, just try to talk to the player, that you don't enjoy that kind of game. Either it works or it won't, but your personal gaming experience is not likely to become better if people don't communicate.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Take it to a home game. If you can't see why PFS is better off without these options, then you're probably not the face anyone wants advertising the campaign to new players and the general public. There are thousands of character options, if you can't find something that is fun to play then you're not trying.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Guys, just because we don't agree with each other doesn't give us the right to throw out attacks at each other. We should at least be making a token effort to be civil.
For what it's worth, I see the point Nefreet is trying to make with his Paladin of Rowdrosh, even though I happen to think it comes across as heavy handed and overly preachy (sorry Nefreet, I respect you but I play PFS to have fun, not learn valuable life lessons), and when accused of being speciesist I would just shrug and say "Yeah, along with all the other species". However, I understand that I live in a completely different part of the country and have had radically different life experiences than he has.
Also, I don't see a dowry as part of a prearranged marriage the same as buying a sex slave. I think that was just Nefreet trying to do what he could to simulate the concept he was going for in the confines of the rules system.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Gents,
Stop the attacks, and focus on what the question pointedly was.
The topic at hand is simply, how long will worship of evil God's continue in this campaign, if the intent is to become more good or more pc / pg.
Some of the unique fun of the campaign has begun to be banned, for reasons. I don't proclaim to personally understand them, but they aren't my call.
I just don't want to wake up and find out that Asmodeous, or other gods like Urgatha have been banned from worship. To me, that has been an amazing draw that set Society up as a more mature more gritty campaign.
Thoughts?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mature. Gritty. Two things which the Pathfinder Society shouldn't be. With some scenarios which hit on those (In Wrath's Shadow) and I'm personally okay with the worship of evil deities in PFS, but I don't want our OP to turn into something resembling yet another DC Comics movie reboot. Mature, gritty campaigns don't attract new blood (my opinion).
|
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
|
Gents,
Stop the attacks, and focus on what the question pointedly was.
The topic at hand is simply, how long will worship of evil God's continue in this campaign, if the intent is to become more good or more pc / pg.Some of the unique fun of the campaign has begun to be banned, for reasons. I don't proclaim to personally understand them, but they aren't my call.
I just don't want to wake up and find out that Asmodeous, or other gods like Urgatha have been banned from worship. To me, that has been an amazing draw that set Society up as a more mature more gritty campaign.
Thoughts?
I suspect that this depends very much on the question of playing a worshipper of that deity that isn't connected to slave trade, torture, canibalism, plundering graveyards and a couple of other issues.
As it is any character who chooses to worship those gods will be at the fringe of that gods portfolio since being evil is not an option in PFS.
To put this in another way, Iomedae might appreciate her lawful non-good followers, but they are usually not striving to follow her ideal in every way.
Playing nice with each other and not using personal backstories to justify "being a jerk" seems to be the right way to go, always consider what effects individual actions could have on you (or rather the people willing to play with you / GM for you) and the campaign as a whole.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
Gents,
Stop the attacks, and focus on what the question pointedly was.
The topic at hand is simply, how long will worship of evil God's continue in this campaign, if the intent is to become more good or more pc / pg.Some of the unique fun of the campaign has begun to be banned, for reasons. I don't proclaim to personally understand them, but they aren't my call.
I just don't want to wake up and find out that Asmodeous, or other gods like Urgatha have been banned from worship. To me, that has been an amazing draw that set Society up as a more mature more gritty campaign.
Thoughts?
I don't think it's likely to happen.
There is a pretty strong difference between something like what has recently been disallowed and things like the worship of Asmodeus: namely, the very fact that marginalizing a group of people is actually a hot-button issue in our lives, while the worship of evil gods is recognized by all of us to be largely kept within the purview of a fantasy setting. There are certainly people who will raise issues with such a "practice" but by and large they are not *us* (this group of people who play and discuss this game).
Do I believe that the worship of Rovagug should be disallowed in PFS? Absolutely. But that is based on my opinion of and knowledge of his cult's "place" on the world of Golarion and not on the fact that he's evil. Do I expect his worship to actually be disallowed? No. Because if it comes up at a table it's not even remotely as disruptive to people, by virtue of the fact that his very concept is pure fantasy. Unlike the concept of marginalizing various members of our society.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd like to think that our campaign leadership is quite intelligent and discerning. We won't see a slippery slope unless events dictate we should.
In other words, if you want to worship evil, do so maturely and respectfully. If your character concept is just to glorify squicky and make others uncomfortable, then you should probably reconsider. I know many people who don't like caricatures of evil at the table and don't want to deal with disruptions based on someone bringing a barely acceptable concept to the table. I don't like dealing with this either, and I feel uncomfortable being put in a position where I have to intervene, let alone how uncomfortable some concepts make me personally feel.
If we see toour many complaints and issues of inappropriate squicky out there, then it would be wise of campaign management to discern those options are not appropriate for organized play.
My advice to keep this from happening is to remain mature and respectful with character concept choices.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Also, I don't see a dowry as part of a prearranged marriage the same as buying a sex slave. I think that was just Nefreet trying to do what he could to simulate the concept he was going for in the confines of the rules system.
^ exactly this.
In response to the accusation that I was purchasing a [REDACTED], I will happily provide more context: the character is actually openly gay (almost all of my characters are, as am I), but due to the responsibility to continue his family line and remain within the confines of tradition he requires a wife. As a chaste Paladin loyal to his culture he sees nothing wrong with this.
Now, mechanically, I will simply have to use one of the Follower Vanities instead of purchasing a now illegal option.
(sorry for the belated reply, there has been a more pressing event in today's news that I've been devoting my time to following)
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Gents,
Not everyone participating in this discussion is male. Unless you're only willing to talk to male participants?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pathfinders can worship Asmodeus and even be in favor of slavery, though the Decemvirate is allowed to declare that slave ownership for Pathfinders is illegal, for whatever reason they choose, because they can do whatever they want. Maybe all the Liberty's Edge people persuaded them or something. After all, who doesn't love a guy who sends you on missions to assassinate anyone who knows about his affairs with married women?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
|
Organized Play Coordinator
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I removed quite a few posts from the thread because they did not deal with the original poster's question and either broke community guidelines or quoted posts that broke community guidelines.
I am reading all the posts, not just here but in related threads. I am trying to figure out the best direction for the campaign, both from a business standpoint and from the player point of view. As the Organized Play Coordinator, this is *my* job and one I take seriously. If you want to see something happen with the campaign, one way or another, then discuss it rationally, calmly, and with well-constructed arguments.It does not bode well for people to bring vitriol and anger into the discussion.
If the thread gets unlocked by Liz/Chris tomorrow, I expect posters to maintain decorum and stop the personal attacks. Stating your opinion is encouraged. Breaking our Community Guidelines is not.