A trap solution

[Zolanoteph]

Traps are broken, this much is known. It can cost thousands of gold and countless hours of work to make even a basic and moderately effective trap. The rules are so bad that i'm surprised they haven't been revised.

In Neverwinter nights you had a SET TRAP skill and bought traps as mundane or magical items that were reasonably priced and simply placed on the ground to deal damage, create effects or both. I'm thinking of creating simple damage traps, pricing them fairly and instituting a set trap skill.

Thoughts?

[Zolanoteph]

I'm thinking a basic trap costs 200 gold and does d6 damage from spikes (perception DC 20, Disable DC 20, 2d6 damage).

100 gold can be added to upgrade the perception or disable dc by 5, or to add d6 damage. These increases can stack as more gold is spent.

The set trap DC would equal 10 plus 5 per upgrade Purchased.

[Lawrence DuBois]

My thoughts - at least for a quick and dirty way - would be treat them as a consumable magic item, regardless of whether or not they actually are magical traps (although, obviously, mechanical traps shouldn't be affected by dispel magic and similar effects), and price them accordingly. On the other hand, magic items tend to be quite expensive, while bear traps (which seem to be what you're describing) probably shouldn't cost any more than an exotic weapon or alchemical item for the base version. Consider that a simple 1d6 weapon costs as little as 1 gp, can be used to deal damage at least once every round, and you can bring it to your enemy whereas a trap has to be set up before it can deal its damage (only once), and you have to hope that your enemy stumbles into it. Now, true, if you can set them up ahead of time, you can do additional damage without spending actions as you would with a weapon, but just something to keep in mind if you want players to bother with them rather than purchasing some magical daggers or something.

Also, some things to consider: do these traps use an attack roll or a saving throw? In the case of the former, what is their attack modifier? If the latter, what is their save DC? Do they scale in any way? What about traps to inflict conditions instead of (or in addition to) damage? Or traps that deal different kinds of damage? Can your basic trap be made of different materials like cold iron or adamantine to bypass DR? Can they be enchanted? How much would those modifications cost?

Also, have you taken a look at ranger traps from Ultimate Magic? It's a feat-bought ability rather than a purchased item, but it fills much the same role. You might consider creating magic item versions of those.

[Val'bryn2]

Perhaps change the way you use traps. Yes, as a stand-alone encounter, they're rarely more than a speed bump. Use them in conjunction with other encounters, however...

As an example, I'm designing a dungeon for a group of new players. I'm planning a room that I will describe as having a large number of bronze tablets hanging from the walls, basically making them sound like the metalworking equivalent of tapestries. When they step in a certain place, it will unleash a small hailstorm of metal balls, dealing a reasonable amount of damage for the level. But the REAL purpose of the trap is that a LOT of those spheres are hitting bronze tablets, working as gongs, meaning the enemies the PCs were going to sneak up on, are now ready for them, with the added benefit of perhaps weakening the intruders.

[Mark Hoover]

Second what V to the B is saying. If this thread is about the cost of traps and making them as PCs; there I cannot help you. But if you think about using them as a GM, I'd strongly suggest using them in conjunction with other threats.

Consider a room with a CR 1/2 Acid Splash trap. It spits out a small gout of acid on someone who trips the Trigger; big deal. Now imagine that the ONLY way to go is through the Trigger, and that the only monsters in the room are a kind of Ooze that's immune: acid. Suddenly this trap becomes a serious nuisance.

Traps are good as ways to divide larger encounters. One toe-to-toe fight with four mites and a giant spider is a CR 3 fight and pretty challenging for your APL 1 party. The same fight as 2 mites and a shallow, easy to detect pit (call the pit a CR 1/2 and it deals only 1d6 damage) is merely a CR 1 fight but unless the PCs disable the trap, eventually it opens releasing a giant spider from behind. It works out to the same CR but splits it into 2 separate encounters.

Finally, think about WHY the trap is there in the first place. Most traps have the CHANCE to kill their prey outright, but also slow or immobilize their quarry making it easier for the hunter to finish off their kill.

Consider a kobold outpost with a Burning Hands trap. Now first off they'll have a way to avoid the device; a secret way around or over it, magic or genetics to ignore the fire damage, etc. Secondly, any good kobold adept or sorcerer knows that Burning Hands at level 1 just simply doesn't do enough damage to kill much more than a Tiny sized rat. One thing a flash of fire DOES do though is ignite things.

So... Burning Hands trap; within range are some fire crackers, wicks sticking out of the walls. Trap goes off, the wicks burn, and POP POP POP! Suddenly the kobolds know you're there and one round later they ambush you from inside the walls.

[Amanuensis]

The way I understand the OP, it's more about traps as player options. (Granted, many traps also don't make sense from a story-telling standpoint, since they are incredibly expensive compared to their relative (in-)effectiveness or the amount of wealth they are supposed to guard.)

I tried to implement traps as a PC option with the trapmaster rogue. It's not a perfect system, but maybe it can give you some ideas.

[Zwordsman]

FOr player side.. I've loved traps but never got any good ones as a player character, outside of Trap Alchemist.
Though a new spell in Occult Adventures, Etheric shards are a great trap for player use..

Honestly slapping it on command and then bombing the area is pretty hilarious.. as an offensive trap set up. They run-they make a check for each square taking damage hopefully. They get blasted they make a reflex save.... They take the damage from the spell and then another save vs the trap damage. and it doesn't go away after one use.
So.. they run through many blocks building damage and stacking bleed (see spell) they try to fight back with ranged things. they roll again.
they do anything but stand still.. they roll.
it can get nasty pretty quick in the right cases..

Sneaking into the enemy encampment and setting it up then bombing worked pretty well

Sadly. mundane traps, outside of bear traps just..dont' work well for players. Its hard set up and hard to get back if things mess up.

That is one reason I love that spell and that alchemist bomb type.

Traps, like poisons, are sadly very difficult to get rolling on the player side.

[Zolanoteph]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I like the traps as consumable magic item idea.

[Alex Trebek's Stunt Double]

How much do you really want from traps?

Are you looking for defence while resting? Defend enfilade routes while exploring an area? Pre-battle zoning?

What are you expecting the traps to do? mobility debuff? status debuff? Straight damage? Or environmental advantage such as smoke that obscures or hard to pass obstacle.

[Kaisoku]

Small traps that you can place and hide quickly enough for imminent combat are going to not likely be the kind of traps that deal in death-inducing damage.

Instant kill traps tend to be deep deadfalls with spikes, or pretty heavy weighted crushing force/counterweight systems. These usually involve a lot of prep work and they tend to become a feature of the terrain at that point.

If you go with "bear trap" style, then I'd stick with what they tended to do: bleed, maim, and ensnare.

If you are being chased, and have a couple rounds to lay down some pre-made traps to cause problems, I could see it working.
Then your enemies can blunder into them and start off combat with bleeding damage per round (forcing concentration checks), reduced movement speed, and possibly even entangled or prone conditions.
And that's not counting additional rider effects from poisons, disease, or even special triggered effects that cause blindness, confusion, nausea, stunning or other effects.

I can definitely sway the direction of an otherwise close battle, and still fits within the realm of what a small mechanical trap might cause.

Once again, I'd price them out similar to the Magic Item Creation Rules (either the chart, or price according to an existing item), as it's already an established set of rules for coming up with a decent price range on an item that causes these kinds of effects.