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Alternity (my goto system for modern and future settings in most cases) uses meters. We actually have a joke about how in the alternate time line that DarkMatter takes place the US switched to Metric in the 90s
Jester David wrote: IonutRO wrote: God of Atheism wrote: ITS ALL GOING TO BE IN METRIC UNITS CAUSE FUTURE
I FOR ONE EMBRACE 1.524 METER SQUARES
Actually, I've been thinking of using 1 meter squares instead of 5 ft. squares in my games. It works nicely since you can use meters and yards almost interchangeably. And it makes hallways and rooms closer to reality. And I'm also thinking it would allow for a larger variety between creature sizes and weapon reach.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
IonutRO wrote: God of Atheism wrote: ITS ALL GOING TO BE IN METRIC UNITS CAUSE FUTURE
I FOR ONE EMBRACE 1.524 METER SQUARES
Actually, I've been thinking of using 1 meter squares instead of 5 ft. squares in my games. Come on, Goblin Squares.
Take your average (space) goblin height (or width, if you have chubby (space) goblins) and use that.
It would be so much more (Path)Starfinder that way! :P
Why not just use a new Absalom Standard unit of measurement? (one that roughly corresponds to 1 unit equals ~1" on a standard gaming mat when using 25mm miniatures?)
Who thinks that Hyperspace will be some kind of divine magic effect? Subject to dimensional locks, anti-magic fields and divine retribution for abuses?
Torbyne wrote: Who thinks that Hyperspace will be some kind of divine magic effect? Subject to dimensional locks, anti-magic fields and divine retribution for abuses? I think it was mentioned in the Know Direction podcast that Hyperspace is going to be a kind of dimensional travel, and that the actual Hyperspace dimension is slowly filling with detritus from the material plane (as well as from where ever else people have been accessing it). Event Horizon was specifically mentioned, so I thing consequences for abuse are already being considered.
Belabras wrote: Torbyne wrote: Who thinks that Hyperspace will be some kind of divine magic effect? Subject to dimensional locks, anti-magic fields and divine retribution for abuses? I think it was mentioned in the Know Direction podcast that Hyperspace is going to be a kind of dimensional travel, and that the actual Hyperspace dimension is slowly filling with detritus from the material plane (as well as from where ever else people have been accessing it). Event Horizon was specifically mentioned, so I thing consequences for abuse are already being considered. They said that us accessing the hyperspace plane pulls stuff from other planes into it, but not specifically that it's stuff from the plane you access hyperspace from.
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IonutRO wrote: Belabras wrote: Torbyne wrote: Who thinks that Hyperspace will be some kind of divine magic effect? Subject to dimensional locks, anti-magic fields and divine retribution for abuses? I think it was mentioned in the Know Direction podcast that Hyperspace is going to be a kind of dimensional travel, and that the actual Hyperspace dimension is slowly filling with detritus from the material plane (as well as from where ever else people have been accessing it). Event Horizon was specifically mentioned, so I thing consequences for abuse are already being considered. They said that us accessing the hyperspace plane pulls stuff from other planes into it, but not specifically that it's stuff from the plane you access hyperspace from. New prestige class idea, replacement for Horizon Walker, Hyperspace Janitor. It will be glorious.
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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Equipment that doesn't require 'charges' *unless* they've been given the 'broken' condition. Whether due to magic runes, internal microreactors, micro nanofoundries, etc, the payload is nigh-infinite unless the containment housing takes enough damage that it can't 'keep up' with rate of usage.
Some sort of answer to the 'adamantine lightsaber'.
How about standardized skills/feats, and if folks want to spell-cast/sunder/know something they spend one of the slots to learn that, with a scaling capability as they level (that is not 1d6+[1/2pt per level])?
Differing ways to effectively handle the Dark Tapestry if one is swept off a ship during an explosive decompression incident. (Implanted Circuits of Adaptation perhaps?)
New Prestige class idea, not replacing anything: Spatial Salvager
I like the idea of standardized magic power sources for "martial" sidearms. I would prefer to keep limited charges or ammo for weapons beyond the norm though. Payload railguns, especially high damaging fusion weapons, that sort of thing.
Actually how cool would it be to have explosive rounds that deal damage as a regular weapon attack and then cause an small explosion (2-6D6 depending on power of charge) Or Fusion weapons that deal both Fire and Radiation damage types?
Torbyne wrote: IonutRO wrote: Belabras wrote: Torbyne wrote: Who thinks that Hyperspace will be some kind of divine magic effect? Subject to dimensional locks, anti-magic fields and divine retribution for abuses? I think it was mentioned in the Know Direction podcast that Hyperspace is going to be a kind of dimensional travel, and that the actual Hyperspace dimension is slowly filling with detritus from the material plane (as well as from where ever else people have been accessing it). Event Horizon was specifically mentioned, so I thing consequences for abuse are already being considered. They said that us accessing the hyperspace plane pulls stuff from other planes into it, but not specifically that it's stuff from the plane you access hyperspace from. New prestige class idea, replacement for Horizon Walker, Hyperspace Janitor. It will be glorious. Yeeeeees.
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IonutRO wrote: Torbyne wrote: IonutRO wrote: Belabras wrote: Torbyne wrote: Who thinks that Hyperspace will be some kind of divine magic effect? Subject to dimensional locks, anti-magic fields and divine retribution for abuses? I think it was mentioned in the Know Direction podcast that Hyperspace is going to be a kind of dimensional travel, and that the actual Hyperspace dimension is slowly filling with detritus from the material plane (as well as from where ever else people have been accessing it). Event Horizon was specifically mentioned, so I thing consequences for abuse are already being considered. They said that us accessing the hyperspace plane pulls stuff from other planes into it, but not specifically that it's stuff from the plane you access hyperspace from. New prestige class idea, replacement for Horizon Walker, Hyperspace Janitor. It will be glorious. Yeeeeees. If Futurama ran a whole campaign off of space delivery people then you can definitely run a campaign on space janitors.
There is a weird effect in sci-fi games that i dont see nearly as much in fantasy games. We take for granted that it can take multiple swings from a broadsword to drop an enemy but once we have developed small energy weapons why not scale them to the point where they can kill in a hit? I think it was Gurps where i saw it the most, weld three ion pistols to a two handed frame and fire them all at once. Impracticable in the real world because in general one or two bullets to center of mass will end a fight. Impracticable in fantasy settings because you cant tape two swords together and get double damage. But if i know my 3 pound plasma pistol isnt going to kill the xenomorph in less than 6 shots why not make a 12 pound rifle out of multiple pistols and get the killing done faster? Wonder how/if the system will address that.
Torbyne wrote: There is a weird effect in sci-fi games that i dont see nearly as much in fantasy games. We take for granted that it can take multiple swings from a broadsword to drop an enemy but once we have developed small energy weapons why not scale them to the point where they can kill in a hit? I think it was Gurps where i saw it the most, weld three ion pistols to a two handed frame and fire them all at once. Impracticable in the real world because in general one or two bullets to center of mass will end a fight. Impracticable in fantasy settings because you cant tape two swords together and get double damage. But if i know my 3 pound plasma pistol isnt going to kill the xenomorph in less than 6 shots why not make a 12 pound rifle out of multiple pistols and get the killing done faster? Wonder how/if the system will address that. 'cause you can't duct-tape 6 pistols together to get a rifle.
thats not what Fallout says. :P
more seriously, Power armor gives you the strength to hold it and most mechanic skills would technically allow you to build a frame to hold a bunch of pistols in a radial spread at the business end. Its just hilariously impractical in the real world and hilariously broken in most settings. Though i think the simpsons did it once...
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For space janitors, you do not have to look an further than the late 1970s TV show Quark for inspiration. That show, despite being live action, was actually slightly less serious than Futurama.
Having browsed through the "I Hate Feats" thread on the historic re-enactment side of the boards i have come to realize a slight benefit to the Starfinder product plan. By not having multiple books each month that have to have some new rules content the team can significantly slow down the introduction of new rules and feats. I mention this as a positive as hopefully the need to make best use of page space and slower product line will mean a lot less "filler" material for things that maybe dont need to exist.
Is this going to have a revised system, or is it going to be the same old garbage 3E rules?
Hiram_McDaniels wrote: Is this going to have a revised system, or is it going to be the same old garbage 3E rules? Based on interviews so far, something inbetween, but leaning heavily towards the 3.75 pathfinder ruleset.
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Its been awhile and i wanted to post some new blatantly wild speculation and see how it compares to what i was blatantly speculating about before.
Defense comes in three layers,
- Shells. These are represented by energy shields, magical effects, supernatural abilities, magnetic fields with suspended barriers... things that project beyond armors worn and the first to absorb effects. usually they grant pools of temp HP with no or very little hardness. Hits that fail to deplete a shell will usually count as a miss for purposes of riding effects. They can often be cycled or regenerated. Sometimes completely ineffective against one form of damage, physical or energy.
- Armors. From boiled leather to void sealed power armor. An always on defense that provides a baseline hardness and AC bonus. Some advanced armors will specialize and grant a bonus vs energy or physical damage types. Often capable of housing armor augments to add additional abilities.
- Personal. a Racial armor bonus, spell like enhancements, cybernetic or genetic augmentation, an always on part of the PC. often conveys a small measure of additional defense to AC or hardness, without specific effects such as magic or augmentation it is usually not enough to rely on in combat.
Offense is simplified into Energy and Physical damage types. Physical is mostly seen in melee weapons, penetrating magnetic accelerating weapons and specialty payload weapons. Most ranged weapons are energy based for ease of logistics and weapon cycling/reloading but energy weapons have a harder time matching the penetrating power of physical weapons. Energy does benefit from resolving against touch AC as well as a wider range of commonly available weapon augments to overcharge or add rider effects onto their attacks.
If I was doing it then I'd use DR instead of AC. I'd want to take account of different 'technology levels'. And I'd also want to make it adaptable to several different universes rather than be more specific. As a basis, use the three weight categories for armour to give base values for weight, cost and DR. List the types of material that are available at a level of technology, with the modifiers that they apply to the basic values. Perhaps have some vulnerabilities or extra protection to types of attack built in to the materials, so ceramics would be better against lasers but worse against kinetic attacks than metal, for instance.
Bluenose wrote: If I was doing it then I'd use DR instead of AC. I'd want to take account of different 'technology levels'. And I'd also want to make it adaptable to several different universes rather than be more specific. As a basis, use the three weight categories for armour to give base values for weight, cost and DR. List the types of material that are available at a level of technology, with the modifiers that they apply to the basic values. Perhaps have some vulnerabilities or extra protection to types of attack built in to the materials, so ceramics would be better against lasers but worse against kinetic attacks than metal, for instance. So my thinking behind it goes to Shells as a temp pool that usually apply to all damages and in small encounters the shell is enough so you dont have any significant resource depletion. It would also give you something to play with if you want to run a gauntlet to get into melee or other dramatic maneuvering. So everyone can benefit from a Shell.
Armor would start out as low weight, high dex, low hardness. you get some AC, some hardness but really benefit from mobility and higher Touch AC. as you move up the armor chart you get better regular AC against physical attacks but become slower and your touch AC sinks. You make up for accepting every energy attack by upping your hardness with those armors. For this to work though i would have most physical attacks being larger single sources of damage (something like built in clustered shots) whereas energy attacks usually do less damage but allow you to make extra attacks per round. You would have to be careful about keeping resistances and immunities down or out but there is potential there for a neat system. Try for three shots at half damage with your laser pistol due to their hardness of 4 or charge in and swing your power axe against their regular AC and try to overwhelm that pitiful 4 hardness with your 1D12+15 physical attack?
It does run into problems with the tech disparity, low tech armors should have disadvantages against high tech weapons without a lot of magical re-enforcement. but that is something the game will have to tackle anyways.
I like the material modifiers though. Maybe make armors be piecemeal out of the gate, choose one of 8 armor styles and then one of 6 materials as a basic form of armor instead of a single list. then, if your credits provide for it, add in augmentations and enchantments.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
DR/round would be interesting. Like there's a recharge cycle on certain armors. Would explain how even a well armored soldier can lose to a swarm of primitives. Like ewoks, kinda.
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well, more like a swarm of jawas.
to lose against spear wielding teddybears with creepy rapeface grins when you're wearing power-armor and wielding plasma weapons just shows how bad those troopers had gotten.
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Jamie Charlan wrote: well, more like a swarm of jawas.
to lose against spear wielding teddybears with creepy rapeface grins when you're wearing power-armor and wielding plasma weapons just shows how bad those troopers had gotten.
Thankfully George doesn't have control anymore, otherwise I am sure we would have gone avatar with endor and ended up with natural carbon fiber in the plant life making for super spears.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
What I'm dying to speculate about is the envoy class. Since it's said they're very much a captain, bard in space class, I get the feeling they can inspire, to some degree. To not outdo the bard, maybe he has an aura of inspiration that gives all near him a bonus, and if he picks you out and inspires the hell out of you, you get an even bigger/different bonus. Combination of pathfinder and 5e bards
2ndGenerationCleric wrote: What I'm dying to speculate about is the envoy class. Since it's said they're very much a captain, bard in space class, I get the feeling they can inspire, to some degree. To not outdo the bard, maybe he has an aura of inspiration that gives all near him a bonus, and if he picks you out and inspires the hell out of you, you get an even bigger/different bonus. Combination of pathfinder and 5e bards I want the envoy and the mechanic class to synergize, one gives morale bonuses to meatbag operators and the other gives morale bonuses to ship systems.
Mechanic's 'morale' should be something else, so that if you get a bioship they can stack as you inspire meatbag ship systems.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
it would probably be a competence bonus from mechanics. Or maybe a new one... efficiency bonus?
oh yeah, i like that; Efficiency Bonuses. I would like to see an ability for Mechanics to tune equipment and grant efficiency bonuses too... to Jordi a thing basically. And then of course the good natured rivalry between the charismatic captain and the resourceful engineer about whose actions really saved the ship in that last scuffle.
Proposed rules for Nuclear Weapons.
A different game system states that one pound, or half KG if you prefer, of TNT does 6d6 X 2 of damage. This breaks down to 6d6 of fire and 6d6 of concussive force ( Bludgeoning damage ). So, one ton of TNT does 6d6 X 4,000 points of damage. Now that we have a scale of damage, a 1 Kiloton nuclear explosion will do 6d6 X 4 Million points of damage, half is fire and the rest bludgeoning. Radiation will be a separate issue, as the damage mechanics will be different. A one megaton blast will do 6d6 X 4 Billion points of damage, and a one hundred megaton blast will do 6d6 X 400 Billion.
Now that we have the damage at the point of detonation, we can calculate the damage inflicted at a given distance. The amount that damage decreases is determined by the inverse square law. To simplify, take the distance from the point of detonation in yards or meters, square it, and divide the damage rolled by that value. Again, half will be fire damage, and the rest bludgeoning damage. This means that even a modest weapon will kill creatures that are immune to fire, simply by using just the concussive force.
I hope these proposed rules help my fellow GMs.
I think d20 modern had a monster that when it died it exploded in a mini nuke Nuclear toxodrym i think was its name. It did if i remember correctly 300 damage to all things within a mile and lowered as it spread out further and then there was a boat load of con damage as well. I might be remembering the damage lower then it was however.
I don't know much about D20 Modern. I based the above proposed rule on my own understanding of physics.
At the same time, the damage of magma in pathfinder is a measly 20d6 for submersion, so damage may not climb linearly. Maybe based on logarithmic scaling, but preferably not the pathetic damage of a blown tech-guide nuclear reactor going off (seriously what the hell)
That said, I think there's plenty of good reasons to have the numbers on city and planetbusting weaponry onhand for when someone uses their inhuman skills to aim a battleship's spinal down for some alternative close-air-support, or for impacts off any tech whose sublight engines would allow travel between planets in-system in days. Rods from someone-a-few-levels-short-of-finally-qualifying-as-a-god and whatnot.
Then again, there's nothing like a good "glassing" to wreck someone's day. Just rig a fusion gun for continuous fire and have the turret sweep across the landscape.
Game over man, game over.
Game over, indeed. Unless someone builds an array of Galaxy-scale Megaweapons. Like Halo.
Torbyne wrote: oh yeah, i like that; Efficiency Bonuses. I would like to see an ability for Mechanics to tune equipment and grant efficiency bonuses too... to Jordi a thing basically. And then of course the good natured rivalry between the charismatic captain and the resourceful engineer about whose actions really saved the ship in that last scuffle. Of course, without the Engineer / Mechanic, there wouldn't be a ship.
Jamie Charlan wrote: or for impacts off any tech whose sublight engines would allow travel between planets in-system in days.
Oh! You mean like putting Rockets on asteroids and aiming carefully? Yeah, I thought of something like that too. I also thought of putting Hyperdrives on asteroids, so you can launch an Empire-devastating barrage from a central, hidden locale. Don't forget, like other inanimate objects, planets have hit points too.
Good God, I love this message board! It brings back the days when I played Classic Traveller.
I'm not sure what the fascination is with making nukes and other high tech weapons do billions of damage. I'm not sure how this adds anything to the game, especially when you can create the same effects using much lower numbers with additional effects outside of just pure damage.
Really, a nuke could be like 32d6 Fire and 32d6 Bludgeoning, max damage to unattended objects, topples structures up to a certain quality, and with a radiation effect. Can't say my method above is absolutely perfect, but certainly much better than "billions and billions of damage."
John Napier 698 wrote: Torbyne wrote: oh yeah, i like that; Efficiency Bonuses. I would like to see an ability for Mechanics to tune equipment and grant efficiency bonuses too... to Jordi a thing basically. And then of course the good natured rivalry between the charismatic captain and the resourceful engineer about whose actions really saved the ship in that last scuffle. Of course, without the Engineer / Mechanic, there wouldn't be a ship. Well, i guess we see which side of the debate you are on. :P
Torbyne wrote: John Napier 698 wrote: Torbyne wrote: oh yeah, i like that; Efficiency Bonuses. I would like to see an ability for Mechanics to tune equipment and grant efficiency bonuses too... to Jordi a thing basically. And then of course the good natured rivalry between the charismatic captain and the resourceful engineer about whose actions really saved the ship in that last scuffle. Of course, without the Engineer / Mechanic, there wouldn't be a ship. Well, i guess we see which side of the debate you are on. :P Just being a realist. I can't see anyone in the Bridge Crew swapping out the air filters, or fixing that pesky leak in the sewage system. The Engineer / Mechanic is a highly specified field that everyone complains to when the lights don't work.
Sauce987654321 wrote: I'm not sure what the fascination is with making nukes and other high tech weapons do billions of damage. I'm not sure how this adds anything to the game, especially when you can create the same effects using much lower numbers with additional effects outside of just pure damage.
Really, a nuke could be like 32d6 Fire and 32d6 Bludgeoning, max damage to unattended objects, topples structures up to a certain quality, and with a radiation effect. Can't say my method above is absolutely perfect, but certainly much better than "billions and billions of damage."
Background flavor, of course. Also, you'd need those billions of hit points to vaporize that very large asteroid that's about to hit a planet full of farmers.
John Napier 698 wrote: Sauce987654321 wrote: I'm not sure what the fascination is with making nukes and other high tech weapons do billions of damage. I'm not sure how this adds anything to the game, especially when you can create the same effects using much lower numbers with additional effects outside of just pure damage.
Really, a nuke could be like 32d6 Fire and 32d6 Bludgeoning, max damage to unattended objects, topples structures up to a certain quality, and with a radiation effect. Can't say my method above is absolutely perfect, but certainly much better than "billions and billions of damage."
Background flavor, of course. Also, you'd need those billions of hit points to vaporize that very large asteroid that's about to hit a planet full of farmers. Still don't need that kind of damage to achieve that.
Look at disintegrate, for example, as it can disintegrate a 10-ft square of solid rock (or anything else, really). Its starting damage is 22d6 on a failed save, but it doesn't need to do 1,800 damage to destroy that much rock. The same style of effect could, and really should, be applied to a nuke if that's what they want it to do.
But then you run into the problem of things that aren't explicitly covered, like giant constructs, or the utter silliness that is a mere 20d6 or flatly shrugging it off to "a bit more than a sword hit at that level with the bonuses" 5d6 when it utterly deletes ten cubic feet of anything "objects" with no effort.
Or the problem of "How long does that fighter with a mere low-teraton-output energy weapon take to finally core the planet if it keeps firing in the same place"
If we at least get, say, an average HP and hardness for general sections (crust/mantle/core) of worlds, the scale multiplier between personal and ship, and the actual output of superweapons, it can easily be done, without always having to devolve into arguments or having to rely on weapons or events that are purely GM-Fiat.
I mean, at some point someone will want to colony-drop something, and someone else might've thought "hey, we're making a space colony, something tends to happen to these things, we should install a ramming prow".
It's not like high level pathfinder characters don't already have the ability to slowly glass a continent (sometimes not even that slowly) just on foot anyways. We should at least have a framework for what happens when the Yamato aims straight down....
While superweapons are a classic staple of space opera, I think they should be plot devices more than statted-out weapons. The Death Star is a setting, not a ship. Its superlaser does enough damage to destroy a terrestrial world (or smaller), we don't need to break it into hp. Attacking the Death Star involves hitting a very small part of it while avoiding enemy ships and gun emplacements, not whittling away millions of hp.
Jamie Charlan wrote:
If we at least get, say, an average HP and hardness for general sections (crust/mantle/core) of worlds, the scale multiplier between personal and ship, and the actual output of superweapons, it can easily be done, without always having to devolve into arguments or having to rely on weapons or events that are purely GM-Fiat.
The Crust should have the hardness of rock, being mostly made of Silicates. The Mantle should have the hardness of Aluminum, since it is a combination of Silicates and Iron. And the Core should have the hardness of Iron. We would then multiply said hardness values by the linear measurement of each section. Calculating the HP of each layer will be more difficult. We'll just have to wait for the rulebooks in this case.
Furthermore, you don't need to shatter the planet to make it uninhabitable. Just crack the Crust in enough places, and the runaway vulcanism will render the atmosphere toxic, and the water an acidic, ash-filled sludge. Eventually, all the Sulfur compounds dumped in the air will introduce a runaway Greenhouse effect, rendering an Earth-like world into something that looks like Venus within several centuries.
ryric wrote: While superweapons are a classic staple of space opera, I think they should be plot devices more than statted-out weapons. The Death Star is a setting, not a ship. Its superlaser does enough damage to destroy a terrestrial world (or smaller), we don't need to break it into hp. Attacking the Death Star involves hitting a very small part of it while avoiding enemy ships and gun emplacements, not whittling away millions of hp. The thing is that in most Space Operas planet razing firepower isn't superweapon grade stuff. It is standard fare.
If we want to talk about Star Wars, Star Destroyers and similarly sized capital ships can obliterate the surface of planets in a few hours. For those who have played KotR, the civilization obliterating surface bombardment you get to see done by the BBEG's flagship is pretty much the norm for capital ships. On the other hand, The Deathstar was designed to be an ostensibly indestructible showpiece that would terrify the Empire's enemies into submission. It wasn't a serious military weapon given its cost. It was a political tool. Seriously, if a handful of frigates could take and hold planet, they could wipe out its population at leisure.
If player flown Starfinder spacecraft have firepower within a few orders of magnitude of Starwars spacecraft, they can wipe out city sized targets at will. Unless Starfinder spacecraft are completely unable to use any weapons against surface targets for technobabble reasons, players are going to try to blow up targets from orbit, and when that happens the GM needs to have a resolution mechanic ready. "Superweapons are a plot device so you can't shoot at the ground" is not a resolution mechanic. It is an attempt to negate player agency with authorial fiat.
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