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How do people think what skills we'll have in Starfinder? Here's my guess at them:
Acrobatics
Appraise
Bluff
Climb
Craft
Diplomacy
Hack/Programming = Replaces Disable Device.
Disguise
Escape Artist
Zero-G Mobility = Replaces fly.
Medicine = Replaces heal
Intimidate
Knowledge (magic) = Replaces Knowledge (arcana), UMD and Spellcraft.
Knowledge (astrogation) = New skill
Knowledge (engineering)
Knowledge (geology) = Replaced geography.
Knowledge (history)
Knowledge (anthropology) = Replaces Knowledge (local) and Knowledge (nobility).
Knowledge (xenobiology) = Replaces Knowledge (nature).
Knowledge (occult) = Replaces Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Knowledge (Planes).
Knowledge (astronomy) = New skill.
Knowledge (religion)
Linguistics
Perception
Perform
Profession
Drive/Pilot = Replaces Ride.
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Forgery = New Skill
Stealth
Survival
Swim
Use Technology = New Skill/Replaces UMD.
Largely I expect a 1-1 conversion. Mostly we'll see some renaming and then everything will stay largely the same. Others (such as magic) will be condensed (UMD, Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) become Knowledge (magic)). Others (space related skills) will be expanded.
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Why would Geogrpahy be replaced by Geology? Totally different. And couldn't geography and astronomy be encompassed by something like Navigation? I imagine forgery would remain part of Linguistics. I think you're right that there would be some kind of computer use/programming/hack skill, but I also think there will still be a need to. Mechanically disable things, such as vehicles and equipment.
IMO, Knowledge (Computers) solves most problems.
I don't expect spellcraft or UMD to get removed. We will simply see alternative uses for them.
Disable Device can still be used for anything mechanical in nature, such as hacking a door.
I'm just hoping that they change it from 'these classes can use these skills' there's instead a divorcing of that idea and instead 'pick x skills as your class skills, these get +3 bonus to them'.
And a minimum of 4 skill points a level, because 2 is just wrong.
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I would like class skills to change, but I would like all races to receive a minimum of 2 skills they can choose as class skills and 2 skill points/level (while humans get more). This way if you are playing a game where everyone is in a figher (ala star wars), you don't have to choose your class based on which has the pilot skill as a class skill. You can just use one of your racial skills and call it a day.
I would like class skills to change, but I would like all races to receive a minimum of 2 skills they can choose as class skills and 2 skill points/level (while humans get more). This way if you are playing a game where everyone is in a figher (ala star wars), you don't have to choose your class based on which has the pilot skill as a class skill. You can just use one of your racial skills and call it a day.
I'd say 'get rid of humans getting an extra skill' as a racial feature and give them something else decent enough. Technology and magic had enough time to advance so humans don't have to be 'skill monkeys' anymore?
But the idea of two 'racial' skill points (that could be likewise picked), perhaps with a +4 or +2 modifier (or 3 to keep it simple)...
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I think that for a science fantasy game, the use of background skills and either consolidated skills or grouped skills better simulates the broad schooling common in advanced societies. Also, giving each of the new classes at least 4 + Int mod skill ranks per level.
I could also see the addition of at least two more consolidated skills: Mechanic (basically, Craft, Repair ["Heal" for robots, vehicles, etc.], and modification of equipment) and Operation (driving/piloting vehicles, using computers, etc.).
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I think that for a science fantasy game, the use of background skills and either consolidated skills or grouped skills better simulates the broad schooling common in advanced societies. Also, giving each of the new classes at least 4 + Int mod skill ranks per level.
I could also see the addition of at least two more consolidated skills: Mechanic (basically, Craft, Repair ["Heal" for robots, vehicles, etc.], and modification of equipment) and Operation (driving/piloting vehicles, using computers, etc.).
Personally with Pathfinder I wound up going with a modified version of consolidated skills. I will have to say that the end result is at least two people dumping INT and really suffering for it. The party as a whole didn't build together and cover each other's butts for Int-based skills which are vastly more important in a scifi setting. Would have happened either way. The party consists of two people who might as well not be there, two players who do most of the combat lifting, who try to compensate with great roleplaying but made seriously damage focused characters that have little to do out of combat. The remaining two players are alright but don't really cover utility enough.
An almost 1:1 conversion of skills would be disappointing to me. This is a new game with an opportunity for a fresh start; I don't want to see the same set of skills all over again.
I hope they go toward unchained with skills for this system. Less is more IMHO.
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I like less is more for most things, but in a high tech society it can break my immersion a bit if all tech use falls under a single knowledge or profession heading. That being said, it can get unwieldly to have to track "Kn: Computer Programming, Kn: Senors, Kn: Communications, Kn: Warp Drive, Kn: Ship Repair..." Especially if those are tacked onto the existing list of knowledges.
Sure, I feel like most of that can be handled by the addition of "trade" (replacing profession) trade: electronics, trade: programming, trade: mechanic/repair, etc, and three knowledges science, magic, lore. For a total of 10. Then add pilot, athletics, acrobatics, artistry, social, perception, stealth. (Really, all-in, no more than 20 skills and the closer to 15 the better) Then encourage GM's to "average checks" where you tell a player to take the average of two skills and roll to get the granularity needed to allow for good immersion.
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Well in the thing I posted earlier I pushed Appraise, Craft, Knowledge engineering and Profession into one multi-skill (Like Knowledge and Profession) to handle things like that. Know about computers? Then you can evaluate them, do jobs involving them and put one together. It just kind of made sense for a scifi setting and prevented single 'science' skills.
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In space, no one can hear you make a Perform check.
(I'd promise this is my last "In space no one can hear you" joke, but I'm pretty sure I've got at least four or five more in me.)
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In space, no one can hear you make your empty promises. ;)
In space no one can hear me spray a fine mist of iced chai all over my screen after reading that comment.
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I like less is more for most things, but in a high tech society it can break my immersion a bit if all tech use falls under a single knowledge or profession heading. That being said, it can get unwieldly to have to track "Kn: Computer Programming, Kn: Senors, Kn: Communications, Kn: Warp Drive, Kn: Ship Repair..." Especially if those are tacked onto the existing list of knowledges.Sure, I feel like most of that can be handled by the addition of "trade" (replacing profession) trade: electronics, trade: programming, trade: mechanic/repair, etc, and three knowledges science, magic, lore. For a total of 10. Then add pilot, athletics, acrobatics, artistry, social, perception, stealth. (Really, all-in, no more than 20 skills and the closer to 15 the better) Then encourage GM's to "average checks" where you tell a player to take the average of two skills and roll to get the granularity needed to allow for good immersion.Its an interesting idea to roll two checks, i am not sure i like the extra rolling and math involved in it though... Granted it isnt much more work but i am not sure its the best way to tackle the problem of a complex task. It requires you to maintain multiple skills to be good at one thing as well which is frustrating for players. Not to mention the mix and matching that a GM can come up with might leave huge gaps in what your character is capable of.
You only roll one check. Example would be something like noticing something is out of place in the filing system of a computer. You have a +4 to perception, and a +8 to trade:prog. The GM tells you to average those two skills and roll a check. So you would be d20+6 to notice something amiss.
Id recommend keeping every skill, since none of them needs to be removed for such a Science Fantasy game.
The Pilot skill should be added, since while Ride is still fine to keep, it doesn't quite cover the same skills required for piloting a ship.
Add in a few knowledge skills, such as: Planetology (strange worlds and terraforming), Technology (tech related things), and Exobiology (Alien life) and you got your basics covered.
Disable device can cover computer use, hacking, and lock picking.
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I doubt anything will actually change and Starfinder will totally be a reskin of pathfinder with no actual differences. All the skills that don't make sense will still work, (like Knowledge local giving you information about every single location's entire layout, list of notable citizens, every store and its contents, and so on without ever having to go to the towns), trap feats and the feat tax will still be there. Full knowledge of all the pathfinder spells that require a natural environment will still be there even though it takes place in an artificial space station, and so on. Honestly, with how dumb the knowledges are and how much I see them overlap, they may as well just streamline them into one or three skills.
If anything, all the things that should be skills will likely be feats, or be skill variants that require the technologist feat to be able to use.
I REALLY hope it doesn't go down the 'mandatory feat tax' route. That's no fun for anyone.
A d20 system can get by with as few as 5 or 6 skills, one per key ability, to cover everything you might want to do with that ability.
Beyond this, the scope of each skill is an exercise in emphasis on some particular feature of the core setting that is supposed to be simulated.
Thus we have a skill that describes Using Magic Items. There's a split between Swimming and Acrobatics and Fly because of (a) melee combat and (b) flight without technology is a thing. There is a skill just for Appraising objects, even though Craft could thematically cover both tasks. This is because collecting treasure is an important part of the fantasy genre. Intimidate, Diplomacy, and Bluff are three separate skills instead of a single "Interaction" skill because character to character communication is so important.
What aspects of adventuring in Starfinder are the most important? Those aspects of the core setting should be more exposed than the incidental things that give the setting its flavor.
If magic is still as important, its associated skills need to stay in: Spellcraft, UMD, Knowledge/arcana, Knowledge/religion, etc.
With the huge addition of technology, associated skills are needed.
Hack: for software coding, terminal use, writing malware or fighting malware
Electronics: for building gadgets out of prefab components, hardware repairs, jerry-rigging, and so forth. (Craft would cover things like soldering, circuit design, and motherboard construction. Craft lets you make the LED, the shell, and the batteries, while Electronics lets you make them into an electric torch).
Knowledge would gain various modern skills. Nature addresses earth sciences, chemistry, astronomy, physics, and zoology. Local addresses the legal-political and cultural spheres. Engineering addresses mechanical and structural and architectural sciences. There might be a technology sub-skill.
Knowledge is theory, Craft is application.
Craft still covers every kind of constructed thing, from a simple walking stick to an electric motor, as well as mystical alchemical substances enfused by the latent ki of the alchemist that makes holistic perception is given an expanded use for recognizing the signs of a distressed and tense neighborhood.
Maybe add Streetwise (urban version of Survival), Drive (land/water vehicles), and Pilot (air/space vehicles) to the list.
I like less is more for most things, but in a high tech society it can break my immersion a bit if all tech use falls under a single knowledge or profession heading. That being said, it can get unwieldly to have to track "Kn: Computer Programming, Kn: Senors, Kn: Communications, Kn: Warp Drive, Kn: Ship Repair..." Especially if those are tacked onto the existing list of knowledges.Sure, I feel like most of that can be handled by the addition of "trade" (replacing profession) trade: electronics, trade: programming, trade: mechanic/repair, etc, and three knowledges science, magic, lore. For a total of 10. Then add pilot, athletics, acrobatics, artistry, social, perception, stealth. (Really, all-in, no more than 20 skills and the closer to 15 the better) Then encourage GM's to "average checks" where you tell a player to take the average of two skills and roll to get the granularity needed to allow for good immersion.
Instead of averaging, have one skill 'power the check' (roll d20 + key ability + ranks) while the add-on skill provides a circumstance bonus (+1 per each 5th rank, minimum 1). Whichever skill is highest ranked is the one that drives the check, and selects the key ability modifier to be applied.
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In a technologically advanced society, I think certain adjustments to the default skill system are justified. 4+ skill points a level to represent general increases in overall education, plus either allowing all Knowledges to be rolled untrained or increasing the DC that can be met untrained. The idea of class skills might need to go away as well.
I am presuming that characters still get skill points as they level to be spent on skills (from a list) as the player chooses.
It's actually quite amazing how much random knowledge modern people have just due to the existence of the internet. Sure, a lot of what's out there is wrong but the sheer volume of stuff someone knows today dwarfs that of a person of even 30 years ago.
In a technologically advanced society, access to "extensive libraries" to allow untrained Knowledge checks is not really an issue (i.e., Google search on a smart phone) and would probably only increase the time needed to make the check to 1d4 full-round actions (instead of 1d4 hours). It's also probably appropriate to be able "customize" the interface of the technological item to allow a +2 bonus (or higher) in one Knowledge skill; which can be changed with a certain amount of preparation time (probably somewhere between 5 minutes to an hour, depending on how difficult you want it to be).
Heck, even with today's technology (far less than the assumed baseline for Starfinder) you could make a case that any skill can be attempted untrained (i.e., YouTube "How-To" videos).
I definitely want a higher baseline for skill points and skill access in each class and either background skills or a skill point kicker at level 1 to reflect on education throughout early life. This way you dont start out at 20 years old, the product of a high technology society, and only having formal education in climbing things and knowledge about local culture.
Maybe do somerthing similar in principle to d20 modern occupations? Have every character get a number of free ranks based on childhood education and background. The character gains one free rank per skill, and can choose a number of skills from a list of choices appropriate to their background. The free rank in a given skill doesn't turn it into a class skill but the character gains the ability to use that skill as trained.
Some backgrounds (like celebrity, academic, dilettante) may have a long list of skills and six skill slots to get a free rank in, while others will have a shorter list and fewer free ranks (criminal, blue collar, rural). There would have to be 'archaic' backgrounds too: caster, serf, slave, survivalist, primitive...