Help make me a BBEG for a Dragonlance campaign!


Advice


So, our group is planning to play a modified Dragonlance campaign, and I am trying to make a fun, powerful, and flavorful BBEG that the GM may throw at us. (It doesn't even have to be for this campaign.)

One of the concepts that came to me was a Bloodrager who becomes a Dragon Disciple to improve his power. The plan is to make him 9th level, taking 5 levels Bloodrager and 4 levels Dragon Disciple.

Here are some core things I'm concerned about:

1. How does this compare to straight Bloodrager? Do I miss anything extremely important?

2. What race should I select? I could select Human with the Dual Talent racial trait, but it's honestly a pretty bland character if I do, but it will function so much better if I select that option. Any other strong and flavorful options out there?

3. What sort of offensive focus should I go for? Two-handed weapon? Natural Weapons? I'm unsure, so some help here would be appreciated. I am leaning towards Natural Weapons, due to the Rageshaper archetype, but lacking 1.5x Strength on attacks can be a real killer in effectiveness.

4. I'm thinking of selecting the Primalist archetype. If I do select the Primalist, how does the ability to select Rage Powers in regards to the Bloodline relate to taking Dragon Disciple levels? Would I have to be an 8th level Bloodrager to substitute the 8th level Bloodline abilities? Could I be an 8th level Bloodrager with 4 levels of Dragon Disciple and be able to switch out the 12th level Bloodline abilities for Rage Powers?

I want to disclose this stuff now, so people don't get confused when I answer them with something that does not follow the Core rules. These are some standard houserules that we have implemented that will help you guys provide more relevant answers:

-There is no Charisma statistic in this game; any effects related to Charisma will be Intelligence or Wisdom-based instead. So, for this purpose, the spellcasting will be Intelligence-based. This is important for point buy and other relevant factors.

-Presume a 17 point buy. Don't ask why we came up with such a weird number, but it is what it is.

-If the race chosen does not exceed 15 Race Points, you select options with the difference of what your race is calculated as. Certain benefits (such as a flat statistic enhancement) are obviously not on the table for this sort of thing.

-Feats such as Power Attack and Point-Blank Shot (AKA feats that people automatically take in relation to those option types) are free to any character who meets the pre-requisites. This means I do not have to spend a feat slot for those feats.

-Hit Points are calculated at 75% of your total. This means you calculate your maximum potential hit points, and then take only 75% of that amount as your actual maximum hit points. Temporary effects that increase hit points, such as Bloodraging, will still be calculated at full capacity.

I look forward to the answers provided, and appreciate any relevant and helpful advice given!


1)Biggest couple of hits between the two class picks:
Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple (BRDD) is a 3/4 BAB, 7/10 spellcasting option. You're taking a barbarian and giving it 3/4 levels (bloodragers aren't spellcasters, they are a self buffing class). Compared to a straight 9 Bloodrager you miss out on +1 BAB, a second 1st level spell slot, 8th level bloodline power. You gain +4 Strength, breath weapon, a bonus feat, a bite attack, a +1 natural armor bonus. If you're set on a dragon blooded bloodrager, going 4 levels into DD is the "right" choice (but the dragon bloodline sucks).

If stuck to a pure bloodrager I would go straight 9 and take the arcane bloodline. As a free action this BBEG could enter a rage, blurred and hasted on the first turn or even in a surprise round (themed correctly it isn't even a departure from "my ancestor was a dragon", it just manifests differently). If you want it to be more scary, Steelblood tags in Full Plate which would allow a stat line of 18/11/14/7/14 (no charisma, per OP. Both level up stats to strength).

2) Race is best determined by story/background. As the "GM" in this case, you're free to do things like apply the Half-Dragon Template. This would shore up the bosses AC, pull a good deal of "dragon-ness" and overall make the boss more impressive than "just a human". Other race considerations (some depending on 3pp access) would be Dragonkin (Kobold Press this link is sadly out of date), Wyvaran (Paizo), or even a Kobold (ya know, because a kneecapper boss is funny stuff).

3)If you want an absolute beast, Two Handed Fighting. 3 THF attacks at strength 22 (+9) with Power Attack (-3/+9) is going to trash most anything it can hit (with a greatsword ignoring crits and assuming all three attacks hit, an average of 75 damage/round).

4)You have to have access to the Bloodline Power to swap them out. From the 5/4 BRDD entry you would get two rage powers from swapping out your 4th level Bloodline Power. You then do not get to swap anything granted from DD out (since it specifies the sorcerer dragon bloodline).

Relevant Rules wrote:


A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained.

Couple of points:

-Race points suck as a way to evaluate how powerful a race actually is. It is possible to make a +4 Int, +2 CL creature that is only 8RP. Similarly, some really useful racial features are comical under-priced while some useless ones are rather overpriced. If you backtrack some of the official races, the point totals they come to don't really make sense (or don't match the quoted RP). For example, Kobolds are 5RP, I'll pick up Spell Resistance, Stability, Quick Reactions, Nimble Attacks and Frenzy. Overall that's SR20, +4 vs Trip/Bull Rush, Weapon Finesse, Improved Initiative and when it takes damage +2 Strength/Con.

-Build a fun boss. This may mean taking some time to design a boss arena for the boss. Bosses should be, by their very nature, an experience. One of the things that most people hate is an underwhelming climax, keep that in mind.

-Building a boss like a character is a good place to start, but since its a boss (and a single big boss instead of several smaller bosses) its okay for it to be extra special. If you might need more arms for "reasons" just do it! I'm currently working on a boss for my own setting that freely swaps between Two Handing, Two Weapon and Quad weapon fighting.

-Since you will be encountering your own boss at some point, give it options to be unpredictable/give the GM flexibility. This will let the GM have more fun with surprising you with the boss and keep you on your toes as it might be something completely different!

Couple of questions for information to include somewhere:
-What level is the party expected to be for this boss?
-What amount of gold does the boss have to spend on items (none just generally means that the boss' stat line should include the "Big 6" items).
-On a scale of 1-10, how difficult should the boss be?
-Beyond "Dragon Flavor" are there any other fluff or flavor considerations that are important?


I'd lose out on 1 BAB. Not much of a deal breaker at 9th level, or even at 6th level, when I would take the first level of Dragon Disciple. This is shored up by the factor that Dragon Disciple is a D12 Hit Dice, and has decent Fort and Will Saves.

A fair enough point on the 1st level spell slot, but outside of Shield, and Enlarge Person, or maybe Mirror/True Strike...ehhhh...not many good buff spells for 1st level.

While you are technically correct on the bloodline power stuff, this FAQ here says that I would still gain the 8th level bloodline power, as the ruling becomes Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is increased by the Dragon Disciple levels. So, I would still get access to my Breath Weapon power, and the Breath Weapon benefit of the Dragon Disciple class makes me able to use it an additional time per day. Did I mention the Saving Throw for that Breath Weapon calculates both my Dragon Disciple and Bloodrager levels together, and the Save DC is Constitution-based due to being a Bloodrager? Because that's certainly a telling power increase.

Shadow Lodge

If this is for Dragonlance, why not make him a minotaur? The bad guys seemed to be far less speciesist than the good guys on Krynn, I seem to remember.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
I'd lose out on 1 BAB. Not much of a deal breaker at 9th level, or even at 6th level, when I would take the first level of Dragon Disciple. This is shored up by the factor that Dragon Disciple is a D12 Hit Dice, and has decent Fort and Will Saves.

The biggest bonus is most definitely the +4 bonus to strength for a melee character. The rest is shrug-worthy (an extra feat at most). The will save is only 1 better over what it would be from straight bloodrager.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


While you are technically correct on the bloodline power stuff, this FAQ here says that I would still gain the 8th level bloodline power, as the ruling becomes Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is increased by the Dragon Disciple levels.
Primalist wrote:
Primal Choices: At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, a primalist can choose to take either his bloodline power or two barbarian rage powers.

You're gaining the 8th level bloodline power from Dragon Disciple, not Bloodrager so Primalist would only work on the 4th level rage power.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
So, I would still get access to my Breath Weapon power, and the Breath Weapon benefit of the Dragon Disciple class makes me able to use it an additional time per day.Did I mention the Saving Throw for that Breath Weapon calculates both my Dragon Disciple and Bloodrager levels together, and the Save DC is Constitution-based due to being a Bloodrager? Because that's certainly a telling power increase.

Scariness of the breath weapon will mostly rely on the shape (cone>line). 9d6 is also fairly shrug worthy (average 32.5 damage, base DC of 14+Con mod for half). You'll end up accidentally roasting any minions you're running for interference/flanking.


Treefolk wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
I'd lose out on 1 BAB. Not much of a deal breaker at 9th level, or even at 6th level, when I would take the first level of Dragon Disciple. This is shored up by the factor that Dragon Disciple is a D12 Hit Dice, and has decent Fort and Will Saves.

The biggest bonus is most definitely the +4 bonus to strength for a melee character. The rest is shrug-worthy (an extra feat at most). The will save is only 1 better over what it would be from straight bloodrager.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


While you are technically correct on the bloodline power stuff, this FAQ here says that I would still gain the 8th level bloodline power, as the ruling becomes Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is increased by the Dragon Disciple levels.
Primalist wrote:
Primal Choices: At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, a primalist can choose to take either his bloodline power or two barbarian rage powers.

You're gaining the 8th level bloodline power from Dragon Disciple, not Bloodrager so Primalist would only work on the 4th level rage power.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
So, I would still get access to my Breath Weapon power, and the Breath Weapon benefit of the Dragon Disciple class makes me able to use it an additional time per day.Did I mention the Saving Throw for that Breath Weapon calculates both my Dragon Disciple and Bloodrager levels together, and the Save DC is Constitution-based due to being a Bloodrager? Because that's certainly a telling power increase.

Scariness of the breath weapon will mostly rely on the shape (cone>line). 9d6 is also fairly shrug worthy (average 32.5 damage, base DC of 14+Con mod for half). You'll end up accidentally roasting any minions you're running for interference/flanking.

Wouldn't be high enough level for the extra feat. Even if I was, I don't have too many great feat options; maybe Toughness. Also, that 1 Will Save is equivalent to the Indomitable Faith trait, so I'll take it. I'd also gain a couple more HP, too, so silver lining.

I did ask a question about the Primalist subjects. That puts me at a bit of a pickle then, because I have to use the Bloodline ability to generate the free Bite attack (which functions at 1.5x Strength at all times), but getting the Reckless Abandon Rage Power is pretty neat too, making me not lose to-hit when I Power Attack, or even giving me more to hit if I decide not to Power Attack. Unfortunately, I can't lose the Breath Weapon to gain it back via Dragon Disciple, and losing Wings can be a real killer.

I was probably going to pick up an Acid cone, in accordance to the Green Dragon. Green Dragons are Evil, so it fits the BBEG concept, and it's also one of the few resisted elements in the game. I'd be having a pretty high Constitution modifier (at least +4), and I'll probably pick up an Ability Focus (Breath Weapon) feat to make it a DC 20, which is still pretty good. Sure, the 9D6 is pretty weak, but it's a solid gap-closing option so that, if the party is stupid enough to charge in and attack me, I'll full-attack them. I can also only do it 2/day, so its usage is sparing anyway.


Which extra feat? DD gives you a bloodline one at second level (Character level 7) from a list that is...mostly unimpressive.

Ragey McDragonface (5 BR (Primalist)/4 DD)
Stats (Before racial adjustment)
Str 18 (both level up +'s here)
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Traits
Reactionary - Stacks with Improved Initiative
Adopted:Bred for War - Bonus to intimidate (there's a better one for intimidate, I'm just blanking on the name currently).
If going half orc with sacred tattoo consider Fate's Favored (it doubles the bonus to saves).

Feats
Since we get power attack for free, the build is rather wide open. Since this character (was) based on a social stat, speccing into Cornugon Smash is one of my personal favorites (grab a reach weapon and cleave and just go nuts). You have claws for things that get within your reach.
1:Cleave - Double taps are fun!
3:Surprise Follow-Through - Makes hitting things easier.
5:Intimidating Prowess - Strength + Not Cha to intimidate, adds ~+6 to intimidate.
7:Cornugon Smash
DDBF: Improved Initiative - Going first is best.
9:Open (Iron Will, Toughness, Furious Focus, Great Cleave, Fearsome Finish, all fit nicely here.

Rage Powers (Primalist swap for 4th level bloodline power)
4:Superstition - +3 Moral Bonus vs spells, SLAs and (Su) abilities. Prebuff before you rage so you don't save against your own spells. Note, this doesn't stop you from casting spells at people.
4:No Escape/Reckless Abandon/Witch Hunter. Any of these would be good second options. PCs don't get to run away/you don't care about the AC game anyways/damage is damage.

Race
Half Orc is probably best
+2 Strength
Intimidation bonus
Swap ferocity for Sacred Tattoo (+1 Luck bonus to saves, turns into +2 via Fate's Favored).

Gear
Masterwork Tool for intimidating creatures via C.Smash.
+X Reach Two Handed weapon (I like Lucern Hammers).
+X Amulet of Mighty Fists (get a a fun ability, such as acid and chug a potion of greater magic fang before the fight).
Typical barbarian/intimidate gear otherwise.

Intimidate: Inflicts shaken. 9 Ranks + 3 Class Skill + 6 Strength + 2 Item + 2 Racial + 1 Trait = +23 vs a DC of 10+hit dice+Wis Mod (for a wis spec'd PC at 6th level that's a 20...). Shaken is a a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

Let this guy initiate, have some back up 4th or 5th level casters to toss save or sucks at shaken PCs. Toss in a bard to buff him. He runs in and either cleaves or full attacks (I'd recommend cleaving as its the more accurate option). Targets hit start to lament life. If swarmed, 5ft step back and drop a breath weapon (DC 16 or so).

Saves are decently high, base of 6/2/3 + 3 Superstition + 2 Luck + 2 Cloak + stat mods. Half Orcs don't have a RP cost (if they come under the 15 point bar, look to grab spell resistance or improved initiative and swap the bloodline bonus feat to toughness).


Interesting set-up. I forgot Claws were the level 1 ability, not the level 4, which is actually fairly weak now that I look at it. Also you were right about the bonus feat. I can't believe I missed that.

A couple key things to note:

-We are using the Unchained Class rules over the standard ones. This is relevant for calculations and determining effects and such.

-I should've brought this up before, but I didn't think it came up, but the Haste and Slow spells are banned from the table. Because they're too staple of a spell choice and quite overpowered for their spell level, they're not available for anyone to use.

-Although the PCs get access to traits via a Special Points system (rewards for smart and well-thought RP, tactics, etc.), this isn't something that the bad guy would automatically get access to as you would expect from PFS. Additional Traits should be a valid feat to take though.

-The GM ruled for Intimidate to scale based off of Strength. The Intimidating Prowess feat allows you to add your Constitution to your Intimidate check in addition to your Strength modifier. This means Cornugon Smash is a much more effective feat (and Intimidating Prowess is not-so-effective).

-We use Automatic Bonus Progression, so things like an Amulet of Mighty Fists, or a Magic Weapon would come automatically, so I can spend the usual WBL on other fun stuff to use at them. This of course, means that I can either enhance my weapon or my natural attacks with the highest, or enhance them both at a weaker level.

That being said, here's what I came up with:

The BBEG:
Human (15 RP); +'s is from having a Draconic Bloodline
Dual Talent (Strength + Constitution)
+Dual Minded
+Greater Spell Resistance
+Natural Armor (this will be increased by the Dragon Disciple feature, as it says it adds on to any existing Natural Armor you possess)

Bloodrager 5 (Primalist Rageshaper)/Dragon Disciple 4

Attributes
Strength 26 (16 Base + 2 Racial + 2 Inherent + 4 Dragon Disciple + 2 Enhancement)
Dexterity 10
Constitution 16 (14 Base + 2 Racial)
Intelligence 14 (12 Base + 2 Enhancement)
Wisdom 10

Feats
1. Raging Vitality
3. Arcane Strike
5. Intimidating Prowess
7. Cornugon Smash, Improved Initiative*
9. Improved Critical (Nodachi)

Rage Powers
Accurate Stance
Auspicious Mark

Items
Mithril Agile Breastplate (+2)
Masterwork Cold Iron Nodachi (+1)
Mammoth Lord's Helm
Deliquescent Gloves
500 Gold

Skills
Bloodrager 5 @ 6 Skill Points/level = 30
Dragon Disciple 4 @ 4 Skill Points/level = 16
46 Skill Points total

Intimidate MAX (9 + 8 + 3 + 3 = 24)
Acrobatics MAX (9 + 3 = 12)
Spellcraft MAX (9 + 2 + 3 = 14)
Knowledge [Arcana] MAX (9 + 2 + 3 = 14)
Perception MAX (9 + 3 = 12)
Swim 1 (1 + 8 - 1 = 7)

Stats
HP 97 [124 while Raging]
AC 24; Flat-Footed 24, Touch 12 [-2 while Raging]
CMD 26; CMB 16
Fort 12, Ref 5, Will 8 [10 while Raging]

Spells * = Bonus
Caster Level 8th
1st Level (2/day)
Shield*
Enlarge Person
Expeditious Retreat
Long Arm
Mirror Strike

2nd Level (2/day)
Resist Energy*
Mirror Image
See Invisibility
False Life

Breath Weapon
30 Foot Cone
9D6 Acid Damage @ Save DC 18, 2/day

Attack/Damage
Cold Iron Nodachi +1 @ +17/+12, 1D10+13, 15-20/X2
Dragon Bite +1 @ +17 when Disarmed, or +12, 1D8+13, X2
Gore Attack +1 @ +12, 1D6+5, X2
[Claws +1 @ +17, 1D6+5, X2] <--- Only when disarmed

Situational Modifiers: Accurate Stance [+2 Attack], Power Attack [-3 Attack/+9 Damage], Arcane Strike [+2 Damage], Bloodrage [+2 Attack/+2 Damage], Flanking [+2 Attack], Deliquescent Gloves [+1D6 Acid, average 3.5 Damage, hands only]


Grab anything other than Arcane Strike, its *only* two damage and you could scoop up Extra Traits instead (or Cleave or Iron Will).

Being a Rager, AC is not your game to play (no dex bonus, +7 AC, -2 penalty...), you'd be better scooping up other tasty things with that gold (Snap Leaves are funny, invisibility potions, potion of fly, there's a lot of options). AC22 for a level 9 boss isn't especially effective.

I really can't stress Superstition over Auspicious Mark enough, its a +3 to saves vs spells/SLAs compared to a 1/rage +1d6.

Those are the biggest issues.


Definitely needs to be a minotaur or draconian for that special Krynnish feel. Let me know if you want help with the fluff too, Dragonlance is one of my favorite settings. Which time period does the campaign take place in?


Treefolk wrote:

Grab anything other than Arcane Strike, its *only* two damage and you could scoop up Extra Traits instead (or Cleave or Iron Will).

Being a Rager, AC is not your game to play (no dex bonus, +7 AC, -2 penalty...), you'd be better scooping up other tasty things with that gold (Snap Leaves are funny, invisibility potions, potion of fly, there's a lot of options). AC22 for a level 9 boss isn't especially effective.

I really can't stress Superstition over Auspicious Mark enough, its a +3 to saves vs spells/SLAs compared to a 1/rage +1d6.

Those are the biggest issues.

I anticipate the party will be fighting him by 7th level, maybe 8th. The entire party, sans the "tank", is 3/4 BAB. They consist of a Menhir Savant Druid, a classic Magus, a classic Ninja, a Plaguebringer Alchemist, and an unchained Monk; their to-hit bonuses won't be especially high (they're level 6 now, and the highest I've seen is +12, and they're already fighting AC 24 enemies already which are difficult for them to hit).

Additionally, consider that the AC I pointed out is him when he's unbuffed. I forgot that Bloodragers could pick up Ironskin, which gives him an extra 4 AC, and apply Shield, which is yet another 4 AC. That's 8 AC, putting him at 32 when it comes time to fight (or 30 while raging), which is fairly good considering he's just a two-handing maniac. Let's not even take into consideration Mirror Images, which makes any potential hits affect images instead.

You probably have a point with the Arcane Strike feat, but Cleave is a pretty big trap for a Two-handed melee character that wants to full-attack consistently (though I will admit that it will be hard for him to hit them consistently, since they can closely hit the 30's in AC with their buffing), and Iron Will is such a staple, it's silly to take when his Will Save is actually pretty strong considering. I'd really want Ability Focus (Breath Weapon) so it's not that weak/easy to save, but I can't select it until 8th level, when I get the Breath Weapon, and having Improved Critical on the Nodachi is pretty damn important for pumping out that threatening damage. I can't take Extra Rage Power, even though that would be a damn good option to take.

The only one I can think of that would be relevant is Multiattack, and that's so that when I include my Bite and Gore into my full attack routine, they're only a -2 to hit instead of -5. To be honest, since I can't take Ability Focus, and I'm worried about the to-hit, that seems to be the best option.

I suppose you're right about Auspicious Mark. But picking Superstition makes no sense thematics wise. And considering the party composition and the lack of save-or-suck spells they have at their disposal, it's not that great mechanics wise. Though I did find a substitute: Deadly Accuracy. The ability to double my Accurate Stance bonuses on a critical confirmation roll, since I'll be using a crit-fishing weapon, is really helpful, and if he becomes a recurring BBEG, this opens the door for the likes of Sharpened and Lethal Accuracy at 16th level, especially if I'm going to focus on the Nodachi.

@ Gambit: To be fair, the BBEG would have Dragon blood, so I suppose that anything Draconian-themed would be appropriate. As for what and when we'll be partaking in Dragonlance, I'll have no idea. I have zero experience or knowledge of the Dragonlance world, so some basics would be appreciated.


At level 9, Cleave is just fine for a Two-handing fighter. Without haste as a buff you're basically upgrading your second -5 BAB attack to a full BAB attack on another person. We're not really loosing tremendously much (the extra naturals are shrug worthy as you said yourself). Furious Focus might be a solid option, stacking with the Accurate Stance you should be able to put your first attack every round into PC meat.

Take a look at No Escape over A.Mark. Withdrawing is a common enough tactic and it's a great way to stick close to your intended meal ticket :<

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Half-dragon hobgoblin or half-dragon dark dwarf or half-dragon dark elf might work if you don't want to be a half-dragon minotaur or draconian.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
@ Gambit: To be fair, the BBEG would have Dragon blood, so I suppose that anything Draconian-themed would be appropriate. As for what and when we'll be partaking in Dragonlance, I'll have no idea. I have zero experience or knowledge of the Dragonlance world, so some basics would be appreciated.

I can definitely give you a run down, but seeing as I dont know what your DM has planned, I dont want to spoil anything. If you are a reader, your best course of action is to pick up the Dragonlance Chronicles trilogy (Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night, Dragons of Spring Dawning), some great classic fantasy novels that will give you a solid knowledge base covering all you need to know to get a feel for the world of Dragonlance and what its about. If you enjoy those, you can also follow them up with the Legends trilogy (Time of the Twins, War of the Twins, Test of the Twins), which some say are even better than their predecessors.


Gambit wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
@ Gambit: To be fair, the BBEG would have Dragon blood, so I suppose that anything Draconian-themed would be appropriate. As for what and when we'll be partaking in Dragonlance, I'll have no idea. I have zero experience or knowledge of the Dragonlance world, so some basics would be appreciated.
I can definitely give you a run down, but seeing as I dont know what your DM has planned, I dont want to spoil anything. ... If you enjoy those, you can also follow them up with the Legends trilogy (Time of the Twins, War of the Twins, Test of the Twins), which some say are even better than their predecessors.

I think I agree with Gambit, here. From a campaign design perspective, it doesn't much matter the mechanics of your boss monster. There are lots of ways to give your players interesting challenges using the rules or just making stuff up.

The real question is, what are the themes and imagery being used by the GM? Dragonlance is a rich campaign world, and a GM using it might be up to anything.

Gambit wrote:
If you are a reader, your best course of action is to pick up the Dragonlance Chronicles trilogy (Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night, Dragons of Spring Dawning), some great classic fantasy novels that will give you a solid knowledge base covering all you need to know to get a feel for the world of Dragonlance and what its about.

1 or 2 things struck me about Dragonlance, depending on how you count. The Dragonlance stories tend to be all very sad, but the campaign itself is totally Loony.

It's a campaign world with childlike Kender who steal everything not nailed down, and are completely fearless. It's a campaign with gnome tinkers building all kinds of crazy inventions. It has Gully Dwarves, total morons who just find themselves persevering. If I wrote a Dragonlance adventure, I would have a young Minotaur naval officer taking command of a prize ship crewed by Gnomes with a contingent of Gully Dwarf Marines and a Kender Marine Captain, all ready to follow their new captain to Hell and Glory, scientific discovery, a good place to hide, and big bowls of stew.

On the other hand, it's also a story about those same Kender stricken by the sight of Dragons destroying their homes, it's about a woman leaving her lover to become rich and powerful, and brothers betraying each other. It's about noble warriors disgraced for nonsense political reasons, and redeeming themselves in pointless deaths. It's about treacherous wizards killing their comrades only to get themselves killed as well because when you are a scorpion, all you know how to do is sting.

Designing a boss monster, the real thing you need to do is look at the story. The BBEG may well then design himself.


Treefolk wrote:

At level 9, Cleave is just fine for a Two-handing fighter. Without haste as a buff you're basically upgrading your second -5 BAB attack to a full BAB attack on another person. We're not really loosing tremendously much (the extra naturals are shrug worthy as you said yourself). Furious Focus might be a solid option, stacking with the Accurate Stance you should be able to put your first attack every round into PC meat.

Take a look at No Escape over A.Mark. Withdrawing is a common enough tactic and it's a great way to stick close to your intended meal ticket :<

They're only shrug-worthy because it is way too feat-intensive to make them equally as effective as a two-handed weapon, I'd need Dragon Ferocity (which needs Dragon Style and Stunning Fist), and I'd need Feral Combat Training for every single natural attack I get. Quite frankly, the only reason that would even be viable is because the GM removed Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus from the game (and is no longer a pre-requisite for feats that require it), otherwise that would be impossible to be done, and even if it was, wouldn't be available until the endgame levels, which would be a complete waste of feats that I could get elsewhere.

I've already decided to replace Auspicious Mark with Deadly Accuracy, allowing better confirmation on the critical threats (considering they'll almost all have high AC, this will be important, otherwise it makes a manufactured weapon choice like the Nodachi pointless). To be honest, between Expeditious Retreat and the Fast Movement, nobody's going to be able to get away.

@ Gambit: I'll wait until the GM announces which campaign book he'll use for us, so as to help give you an idea as to what would and would not be a spoiler for us. As I've said, just some basic information regarding the universe (, such as common factions, cultures, races, etc.,) would be appreciated, as it'll help me to immerse the BBEG into the universe. I'm also usually pretty good at not spoiling stories, as I developed a quick adventure hook for the GM to throw at us, and we all enjoyed it. I didn't even spoil anything, so the PCs were always in the dark about what was really going on.

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There should be a Gully Dwarf Mob monster type that causes the sickened or nauseated condition, and also disease (possibly doing Con & Int damage).


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

The real question is, what are the themes and imagery being used by the GM? Dragonlance is a rich campaign world, and a GM using it might be up to anything.

1 or 2 things struck me about Dragonlance, depending on how you count. The Dragonlance stories tend to be all very sad, but the campaign itself is totally Loony.

It's a campaign world with childlike Kender who steal everything not nailed down, and are completely fearless. It's a campaign with gnome tinkers building all kinds of crazy inventions. It has Gully Dwarves, total morons who just find themselves persevering. If I wrote a Dragonlance adventure, I would have a young Minotaur naval officer taking command of a prize ship crewed by Gnomes with a contingent of Gully Dwarf Marines and a Kender Marine Captain, all ready to follow their new captain to Hell and Glory, scientific discovery, a good place to hide, and big bowls of stew.

On the other hand, it's also a story about those same Kender stricken by the sight of Dragons destroying their homes, it's about a woman leaving her lover to become rich and powerful, and brothers betraying each other. It's about noble warriors disgraced for nonsense political reasons, and redeeming themselves in pointless deaths. It's about treacherous wizards killing their comrades only to get themselves killed as well because when you are a scorpion, all you know how to do is sting.

Designing a boss monster, the real thing you need to do is look at the story. The BBEG may well then design himself.

This was a beautiful post. And completely accurate.


Gambit wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

The real question is, what are the themes and imagery being used by the GM? Dragonlance is a rich campaign world, and a GM using it might be up to anything.

1 or 2 things struck me about Dragonlance, depending on how you count. The Dragonlance stories tend to be all very sad, but the campaign itself is totally Loony.

It's a campaign world with childlike Kender who steal everything not nailed down, and are completely fearless. It's a campaign with gnome tinkers building all kinds of crazy inventions. It has Gully Dwarves, total morons who just find themselves persevering. If I wrote a Dragonlance adventure, I would have a young Minotaur naval officer taking command of a prize ship crewed by Gnomes with a contingent of Gully Dwarf Marines and a Kender Marine Captain, all ready to follow their new captain to Hell and Glory, scientific discovery, a good place to hide, and big bowls of stew.

On the other hand, it's also a story about those same Kender stricken by the sight of Dragons destroying their homes, it's about a woman leaving her lover to become rich and powerful, and brothers betraying each other. It's about noble warriors disgraced for nonsense political reasons, and redeeming themselves in pointless deaths. It's about treacherous wizards killing their comrades only to get themselves killed as well because when you are a scorpion, all you know how to do is sting.

Designing a boss monster, the real thing you need to do is look at the story. The BBEG may well then design himself.

This was a beautiful post. And completely accurate.

Aw, shucks.

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