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Came up during a PFS game. Painful Stare does not specify it is mind-affecting, only that it affects the target the hypnotic stare. 'Target' being the operative word I'm hanging on; if not, vexing daredevils are utterly useless against creatures immune to mind-affecting. A mesmerist can make something the target of its stare even if it's immune, which is what I am saying.
Painful stare is not intrinsically mind affecting. If you have an ability that allows you to apply hypnotic stare to an 'immune to mind affecting' creature you can use painful stare against it.
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That doesn't answer the question, though; if it is mind affecting, mesmerists cannot use Painful Stare against those immune to mind-affecting effects unless they have Bold Stare... locking out the archetype that actually focuses on using Painful Stare themselves. If it is NOT mind-affecting, but rather a result of the Mesmerist asserting his will (as it is implied to be), it can be used against creatures immune to mind-affecting effects regardless of having Psychic Inception.
Painful Stare (Su): When an attack that deals damage hits the target of a mesmerist's hypnotic stare, the mesmerist can cause the target to take an amount of additional damage equal to 1/2 the mesmerist's class level (minimum 1). The mesmerist can use this ability as a free action, and can use it even if it isn't his turn. If the mesmerist uses this ability to increase his own damage, the additional damage increases by 1d6 points for every 3 class levels the mesmerist possesses. This damage is precision damage and is not multiplied on a critical hit. A mesmerist can trigger this ability only once per round, but a single creature can take damage from multiple mesmerists' painful stares in a round.
The mesmerist's Painful Stare is not stated to be mind-affecting. It is stated to be an effect that results from a creature being a TARGET of a mesmerist's painful stare, nothing about being actually effected by it. If someone uses an unarmed strike to deliver a touch spell but doesn't penetrate the DR, it doesn't mean the spell isn't delivered.
It really does.
Painful Stare is not mind affecting. It does not state that it is mind affecting anywhere. There is no reason to assume an error.
It is only dependant on the target being affected by hypnotic stare.
If your hypnotic stare can affect mindless creatures so can your painful stare. If you can't hypnotic stare a target, then you can't painful stare it either.
That's...
...really not how it works.
If you fail to affect something because it is immune it ceases to be a target there and then. It's not like a laser pointer.
I think it's meant like the target line of a spell. If it says "living creature" you can't point it at an undead and then apply rider affects for the target of a spell.
Do you think you can apply painful stare damage to help you bash through a door, on the theory that you can target a door with hypnotic stare even though it's not a valid target and can't actually be affected by your stare? That would be exactly the same reasoning as your attempt to apply it to a (monster) target immune to mind affecting.
Painful Stare says it effects the target of your Hypnotic Stare. If your intended target is immune to mind-affecting abilities, then it isn't a valid target for either.
Take the psychic inception bold stare at 3rd level.
Problem solved. :-)
Ah yes, I missed that part. My bad!
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Hypnotic Stare (Su): A mesmerist can focus his stare on one creature within 30 feet as a swift action. That creature takes a –2 penalty on Will saving throws. This penalty changes to –3 at 8th level. A mesmerist can maintain his stare against only one opponent at a time; it remains in effect until the mesmerist stares at a new target, the opponent dies, the opponent moves farther than 30 feet away, or the mesmerist falls unconscious or dies. The mesmerist can remove the memory of his stare from the target's mind; the creature doesn't remember that it was affected (nor does it realize that it is currently being affected) unless the mesmerist allows it. The hypnotic stare is a psychic effect, and relies more on the mesmerist's focus than the target's perception of his stare. It can't be avoided in the same ways a gaze attack can. The mesmerist can use this ability even while blinded, but must succeed at a DC 20 concentration check to do so. Staring at a creature requires the mesmerist's focus, so if he uses a gaze attack or similar ability, he must target the subject of his hypnotic stare or voluntarily end the stare. The penalties from multiple mesmerists' stares don't stack, nor do they stack with penalties from witches' evil eye hexes. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Thing is, I don't see in there any language that says things about whether targets are valid or not.
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It's a logical flow: Hypnotic Stare is a mind-affecting effect. Painful Stare only works on things that Hypnotic Stare is capable of effecting. Some things are immune to mind-affecting effects, ergo, Painful Stare doesn't work on them, as they aren't valid targets for Hypnotic Stare.
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It's a logical flow: Hypnotic Stare is a mind-affecting effect. Painful Stare only works on things that Hypnotic Stare is capable of effecting. Some things are immune to mind-affecting effects, ergo, Painful Stare doesn't work on them, as they aren't valid targets for Hypnotic Stare.
No, it doesn't! It says nowhere that painful stare only works on things that hypnotic stare is capable of affecting! Nowhere!
Yes, it does. In the ability. How can something be a target for Hypnotic Stare, which it HAS TO BE for Painful Stare to work, if it's immune?
Do you think you can get painful stare damage against a rock?
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Immunity (Ex or Su) A creature with immunities takes no damage from listed sources. Immunities can also apply to afflictions, conditions, spells (based on school, level, or save type), and other effects. A creature that is immune does not suffer from these effects, or any secondary effects that are triggered due to an immune effect.
