So crafting hasnt come up much in other campaigns ive been in, but i'm working on a character build that involves having heart of the fields and a valet familiar (not intentionally making it a crafter, just a coincidence) and with all the bonuses to crafting and co-operative crafting I figure why not look into it.
So, how useful is crafting? What are my incentives for investing skill points and feats into it when (correct me if wrong) every item can be bought for gold?
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When you craft it you get it for half price. Also in a lot of games not everything is 100% available at all times to be purchased. So having tailor made gear can be a big advantage. But the biggest thing is that any item that is crafted is obtained for half price.
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Fearcypher hit on the bit points - crafting means that any equipment you get time to craft is half-price, meaning you can get more equipment for your money, and it also means you can be guaranteed to have the pieces you want - even things you've made up completely on your own or different effects combined into one item, as long as you get GM approval.
If your campaign doesn't have a lot of downtime, the feats can be somewhat useless; if you do have a fair amount of downtime, they're invaluable. I know we always have at least one person with crafting feats in my IRL games, and all their downtime usually ends up getting filled up with requests. I would definitely check with your GM, though; some GMs are fine and dandy with crafting, others are far more reticent.
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Pro: Get any magic item at half price, assuming the GM allows the ingredients and such.
Con: You consume your feat growth for each category of item craftable.
So crafting hasnt come up much in other campaigns ive been in, but i'm working on a character build that involves having heart of the fields and a valet familiar (not intentionally making it a crafter, just a coincidence) and with all the bonuses to crafting and co-operative crafting I figure why not look into it.
So, how useful is crafting? What are my incentives for investing skill points and feats into it when (correct me if wrong) every item can be bought for gold?
Crafting is as useful as your GM lets it be.
The important thing to remember is that WBL is as much a power scale as experience and actually class levels are. More money means more magic items which means more power. Crafting allows you to create those same items for half price, which is effectively giving you more money. For classes that typically are magic items crafters (wizards, clerics, etc) magic items can be exceptionally powerful in comparison to more martial classes. Pearls of Power can really extend the spell casting ability of the classes that make them. And to that end, not every GM looks favorably on crafting (including myself).
Many campaigns can be set such that you simply wont have sufficient time for crafting much equipment. Right now I'm playing a Rise of the Rune Lords campaign and I think we may be 3 or 4 months in game time, since level 1. If you look at how long it can take to craft stuff and the penalties to how much you can craft while traveling you can really end up not getting much bang for your buck.
My best advice to you is consult your GM on what they think of crafting and how much down time you will have and how much "bonus wealth" they are comfortable with you having. In Ultimate Campaign the developers recommended that each crafting feat be worth 25% bonus to effective WBL up to a total of 50% bonus. Some GMs will allow a player to craft all their gear at half price, giving effectively 100% bonus to WBL.
So help me out here, what skill in crafting do I need to make a composite longbow (+2)? and how much would that cost me?
That's handled differently than magic item crafting - it's done through use of the Craft skill. There are two sets of rules for using the Craft skill, one from the Core Rulebook and one from the book Pathfinder Unchained. Personally, I recommend the Unchained crafting rules - they're much easier to understand, and you make far more progress in a given time period.
Craft (Bows), with a Skill DC of 19. A Composite Longbow (+2) costs 300 GP, so you'd pay 100 GP for materials. (Add an extra zero for the price in Silver Pieces, which is used to measure progress.)
So that DC is beaten by d20roll+craft skill I assume? So at the beginning of the campaign if i had a rank in craft (bows) then I could potentially have made said bow?
right, i'm not to concerned with magic items at this time, just trying to get my head around the basics of making something like a composite bow, im assuming its a d20+skill against DC check like everything else, in which case if i spent long enough trying to make something and i had the gold required could i make it?
The example i'm trying to use being starting a campaign as a fighter (175gp starting wealth).
Then by having spent 100gp of that before first session could I have made a composite (+2) longbow with only one rank in the skill?
Also is rolling a natural 20 garunteed success providing ive one rank in the skill?
Sorry i'm really new to the whole crafting thing and i dont really understand the rules.
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I have a question involving crafting. We have a warpriest that is looking to craft a wand of extended MetaMagic Spiritual Weapon. He has Magical Lineage and had extend spell metamagic feat. He also has a cleric in the party that has craft wonderous item. They want to craft a the wand, but my questions are:
1. They are in a remote area from towns. They do have the GP to spend to create it, but how would they get the materials.
2. They are also using Dream Feast and Nap Sack to reduce the sleep they need so that they can craft all night to do the work while travelling. Is this realistic for them to do in order to craft the wand?
3. The cost to craft the wand is 6750 gp. He asked is he can craft an item at CL9 crafter level if the caster is 5th level or 6th level cleric (or Warpriest)?
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I have a question involving crafting. We have a warpriest that is looking to craft a wand of extended MetaMagic Spiritual Weapon. He has Magical Lineage and had extend spell metamagic feat. He also has a cleric in the party that has craft wonderous item. They want to craft a the wand, but my questions are:
1. They are in a remote area from towns. They do have the GP to spend to create it, but how would they get the materials.
2. They are also using Dream Feast and Nap Sack to reduce the sleep they need so that they can craft all night to do the work while travelling. Is this realistic for them to do in order to craft the wand?
3. The cost to craft the wand is 6750 gp. He asked is he can craft an item at CL9 crafter level if the caster is 5th level or 6th level cleric (or Warpriest)?
From what I saw, the DC would be 5 + CL (9 in this case) + (5xLevels below the CL required). So, it would be a DC of 34 for him to succeed in creation. Also, can the Warpriest aid him if he has craft skill and do so with his spellcraft?
right, i'm not to concerned with magic items at this time, just trying to get my head around the basics of making something like a composite bow, im assuming its a d20+skill against DC check like everything else, in which case if i spent long enough trying to make something and i had the gold required could i make it?
The example i'm trying to use being starting a campaign as a fighter (175gp starting wealth).
Then by having spent 100gp of that before first session could I have made a composite (+2) longbow with only one rank in the skill?
Also is rolling a natural 20 garunteed success providing ive one rank in the skill?
Sorry i'm really new to the whole crafting thing and i dont really understand the rules.
Normally "composite (+2) longbow" would be read as "a composite longbow with a +2 enhancement." I think you mean "a composite longbow rated for Str 14, i.e. a +2 to damage." Am I right? If so, I suggest you say "a Str-14 composite longbow" for future clarity.
Assuming I'm interpreting you correctly, the answers to your questions are "yes, if your Craft(bow) bonus is high enough to succeed with a take-10, unless the GM minds you crafting pregame, which they might" and "no" (as Snakers said) respectively. If your bonus isn't high enough to auto-succeed you could still try (have tried) it by rolling the die, but if you blow the roll you lose half the raw materials (50 gp in this case). In which case I suppose you could try again since you started with 175, but I really don't recommend trying if you can't do it on the take-10.
From what I saw, the DC would be 5 + CL (9 in this case) + (5xLevels below the CL required). So, it would be a DC of 34 for him to succeed in creation. Also, can the Warpriest aid him if he has craft skill and do so with his spellcraft?I have a question involving crafting. We have a warpriest that is looking to craft a wand of extended MetaMagic Spiritual Weapon. He has Magical Lineage and had extend spell metamagic feat. He also has a cleric in the party that has craft wonderous item. They want to craft a the wand, but my questions are:
1. They are in a remote area from towns. They do have the GP to spend to create it, but how would they get the materials.
2. They are also using Dream Feast and Nap Sack to reduce the sleep they need so that they can craft all night to do the work while travelling. Is this realistic for them to do in order to craft the wand?
3. The cost to craft the wand is 6750 gp. He asked is he can craft an item at CL9 crafter level if the caster is 5th level or 6th level cleric (or Warpriest)?
It would be best if you re-posed these questions in a new thread, so we don't get the two conversations confused.
SillyString: you have a valet familiar so I'll ask, are you a caster of some sort? If so, are you are a alchemist, arcanist, investigator, occultist, sorcerer or wizard? Or can cast from those lists? If so, you can take Crafter's Fortune as a spell and get +5 to your craft checks.
What I've gathered.
He's an Eldritch Guardian Fighter.
That's why he's wondering about mundane crafting.
He's taken a valet familiar so it will share all his teamwork feats in addition to his combat feats.
What I've gathered.
He's an Eldritch Guardian Fighter.
That's why he's wondering about mundane crafting.
He's taken a valet familiar so it will share all his teamwork feats in addition to his combat feats.
Possible. He could also be one of the other classes with teamwork feat, with a familiar tacked on. Since you can pick up a familiar these days with a single feat, most 1st level characters could fit what info he's given.
Possible. He could also be one of the other classes with teamwork feat, with a familiar tacked on. Since you can pick up a familiar these days with a single feat, most 1st level characters could fit what info he's given.What I've gathered.
He's an Eldritch Guardian Fighter.
That's why he's wondering about mundane crafting.
He's taken a valet familiar so it will share all his teamwork feats in addition to his combat feats.
The example i'm trying to use being starting a campaign as a fighter
What I've gathered.
He's an Eldritch Guardian Fighter.
That's why he's wondering about mundane crafting.
He's taken a valet familiar so it will share all his teamwork feats in addition to his combat feats.
You're half right, Fighter with eldritch heritage.
Though to be honest, i'm curious because this is information I can use across all characters.
Possible. He could also be one of the other classes with teamwork feat, with a familiar tacked on. Since you can pick up a familiar these days with a single feat, most 1st level characters could fit what info he's given.What I've gathered.
He's an Eldritch Guardian Fighter.
That's why he's wondering about mundane crafting.
He's taken a valet familiar so it will share all his teamwork feats in addition to his combat feats.The example i'm trying to use being starting a campaign as a fighter
Ah, I skipped over the bolded text when I skimmed through for the class just catching the starting gold. In fact it took control f for me to find it. My bad then, though that still leaves the Child of Acavna and Amaznen Fighter as a fighter that could have a familiar and cast wizard spells.
Normally "composite (+2) longbow" would be read as "a composite longbow with a +2 enhancement." I think you mean "a composite longbow rated for Str 14, i.e. a +2 to damage." Am I right? If so, I suggest you say "a Str-14 composite longbow" for future clarity.
Noted, thanks!
Assuming I'm interpreting you correctly, the answers to your questions are "yes, if your Craft(bow) bonus is high enough to succeed with a take-10, unless the GM minds you crafting pregame, which they might" and "no" (as Snakers said) respectively. If your bonus isn't high enough to auto-succeed you could still try (have tried) it by rolling the die, but if you blow the roll you lose half the raw materials (50 gp in this case). In which case I suppose you could try again since you started with 175, but I really don't recommend trying if you can't do it on the take-10.
This helps me to understand a lot.
It would be best if you re-posed these questions in a new thread, so we don't get the two conversations confused.
Thanks, I didn't want to bring that up but was thinking the same thing. ^^
My bad then, though that still leaves the Child of Acavna and Amaznen Fighter as a fighter that could have a familiar and cast wizard spells.
Are those paizo archetypes?
Oh, and do you know if you can take 20 on crafting checks? EDIT: Ah, cant be used with skills that have penalties, durp.
My bad then, though that still leaves the Child of Acavna and Amaznen Fighter as a fighter that could have a familiar and cast wizard spells.Are those paizo archetypes?
Oh, and do you know if you can take 20 on crafting checks? EDIT: Ah, cant be used with skills that have penalties, durp.
It's a single archetype from the arcane anthology book, so yep it's paizo! I don't think it's up yet though.
If you can't fail by 5 or more, you're free to take 20 with crafting. So for instance, you're trying a DC10 check. If you have a 6+ bonus, you can take 20 all you like.
My bad then, though that still leaves the Child of Acavna and Amaznen Fighter as a fighter that could have a familiar and cast wizard spells.Are those paizo archetypes?
Oh, and do you know if you can take 20 on crafting checks? EDIT: Ah, cant be used with skills that have penalties, durp.
It's a single archetype from the arcane anthology book, so yep it's paizo! I don't think it's up yet though.
If you can't fail by 5 or more, you're free to take 20 with crafting. So for instance, you're trying a DC10 check. If you have a 6+ bonus, you can take 20 all you like.
Hah thanks, i think in those instances taking 10 would suffice though. And i'll keep my eyes peeled for arcane anthology.
PS, just stumbled across Inner Beauty trait:
Benefit(s) Once per day when you manifest your faith in your deity, you gain a + 4 trait bonus on a single Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, or Perform skill check. You must choose to use this trait immediately after rolling the skill check but before the result is revealed by the GM.
Can I gain this +4 bonus while taking 10? or does it not work because im not rolling?
My bad then, though that still leaves the Child of Acavna and Amaznen Fighter as a fighter that could have a familiar and cast wizard spells.Are those paizo archetypes?
Oh, and do you know if you can take 20 on crafting checks? EDIT: Ah, cant be used with skills that have penalties, durp.
It's a single archetype from the arcane anthology book, so yep it's paizo! I don't think it's up yet though.
If you can't fail by 5 or more, you're free to take 20 with crafting. So for instance, you're trying a DC10 check. If you have a 6+ bonus, you can take 20 all you like.
Hah thanks, i think in those instances taking 10 would suffice though. And i'll keep my eyes peeled for arcane anthology.
PS, just stumbled across Inner Beauty trait:
Benefit(s) Once per day when you manifest your faith in your deity, you gain a + 4 trait bonus on a single Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, or Perform skill check. You must choose to use this trait immediately after rolling the skill check but before the result is revealed by the GM.Can I gain this +4 bonus while taking 10? or does it not work because im not rolling?
It works. Take 10, "calculate the result as if the die had rolled a 10." So when you take 10 you just auto-roll a 10.
Mundane crafting is extremely sad/non-viable after the game has started, though :( But it is a nice boost pre-game.
Magic weapons have to be masterwork. So you'd have to make a MASTERWORK composite str bow of the level you want.
Now, you can make it for 1/3 the cost of buying it, but it still might be past your level 1 budget.
You won't see the gold leverage as much until higher levels, but you'll be getting better gear 1-2 levels ahead of your friends at low levels, and eventually 3-4 levels. FOr instnace, you'll be getting a +5 weapon as soon as you can spend 25k gp, but your friends need to spend 32k to get a +4 weapon.
Same follows for armor. You could easily end up with 4-6 more pts of armor then your friends, for the same amount of money.
==Aelryinth
Magic weapons have to be masterwork. So you'd have to make a MASTERWORK composite str bow of the level you want.
Or you get a masterwork transformation cast on it later.
I like the idea more for customising loot, mainly. (As well as the IC aspects, but that's something else.)
I don't think I've ever seen a GM let you pre-craft stuff at level 1, as far as mundane things. The best you're going to get is +5 Int if you go a full 20, +3 class skill, +1 rank, and +3 skill focus for the REALLY dedicated for a total of +12. And you'd have to pick either bows, armour, or weapons that aren't bows (or sink 3 ranks into getting them all).
And THEN? Well, I actually went through the crafting rules for my barbarian's MW greataxe. Took her ... 10 weeks or so in-game. I had some REALLY favourable rolls to help, too--this was before she could take 10 on that roll. (Why, no, she didn't have 20 Int or Skill Focus, why do you ask?)
Magic weapons have to be masterwork. So you'd have to make a MASTERWORK composite str bow of the level you want.
Now, you can make it for 1/3 the cost of buying it, but it still might be past your level 1 budget.
You won't see the gold leverage as much until higher levels, but you'll be getting better gear 1-2 levels ahead of your friends at low levels, and eventually 3-4 levels. FOr instnace, you'll be getting a +5 weapon as soon as you can spend 25k gp, but your friends need to spend 32k to get a +4 weapon.
Same follows for armor. You could easily end up with 4-6 more pts of armor then your friends, for the same amount of money.
==Aelryinth
Wait wait wait, composite bows arent magic unless they have magic properties are they? Are you saying that all composite bows are considered magic?
As already stated, i just want a mundane composite bow with a strength rating of 14, I'm not looking for any magic properties on top of that, but you're saying I'd need to spend more than listed in the pfsrd chart to make it masterwork aswell? I could understand if i was after a longbow, composite (+2) with a +2 enchantment bonus on top. Now you've made me more confused. Someone clarify, do all composite bows need to be masterwork? I cant find any info on the pfsrd that says they do, though my google-fu is weak.GM Rednal and Fuzzy-Wuzzy didnt mention additional masterwork costs:
Craft (Bows), with a Skill DC of 19. A Composite Longbow (+2) costs 300 GP, so you'd pay 100 GP for materials. (Add an extra zero for the price in Silver Pieces, which is used to measure progress.)
Were they just omitting it because it was obvious? I'm just confused again now... T-T
I'm only quoting based of of what they're called (im assuming in the guide and) the pfsrd: "Longbow, composite (+2) - 300 gp" apologies if that's propagating more confusion, urgh, I just woke up from a night of terrible dreams, I'm going wibble far too easily atm.
I think the confusion is stemming from people thinking of two different things when they hear "crafting" - mundane crafting, which is what you're looking for, and magic item crafting, which is what's most frequently meant by the term. No worries. :)
To make a masterwork bow, you would need to add 300 to the base cost of the bow. If you don't want it to be masterwork right now, it doesn't have to be; but keep in mind, if you want a weapon enchanted later, it has to be masterwork.
Aelryinth's comment (or at least the second part) is referring to magic item crafting, which you've said you aren't worried about right now. To make an ordinary Str 14 composite longbow, which costs 300 gp to buy, you would use 100 gp in raw materials and make Craft checks to determine how long it takes to make.
I think the confusion is stemming from people thinking of two different things when they hear "crafting" - mundane crafting, which is what you're looking for, and magic item crafting, which is what's most frequently meant by the term. No worries. :)
To make a masterwork bow, you would need to add 300 to the base cost of the bow. If you don't want it to be masterwork right now, it doesn't have to be; but keep in mind, if you want a weapon enchanted later, it has to be masterwork.
Aelryinth's comment (or at least the second part) is referring to magic item crafting, which you've said you aren't worried about right now. To make an ordinary Str 14 composite longbow, which costs 300 gp to buy, you would use 100 gp in raw materials and make Craft checks to determine how long it takes to make.
Excellent, thanks. I think from now on if I have any more questions about crafting i'll make a new thread and attempt to be clearer from the first post!
Mundane crafting isn't usually worth it from a power gaming viewpoint. The masterwork versions of items are cheap enough to be readily purchasable. So mundane crafting is something to do for the flavor of your character.
Magic item crafting on the other hand can get you items that are nearly impossible to buy in some campaigns.
For mundane crafting, prepare to be disappointed. It's not very time effective. You mentioned mighty composite longbow, if you try to make one with a 5 strength mod, better set aside a week or two to work on it.
Mundane crafting isn't usually worth it from a power gaming viewpoint. The masterwork versions of items are cheap enough to be readily purchasable. So mundane crafting is something to do for the flavor of your character.
Magic item crafting on the other hand can get you items that are nearly impossible to buy in some campaigns.
Yeah, i'm getting that impression. On the other hand a 1 skill point investment at level 1, coupled with something like the inner beauty trait (which can provide more useful bonuses on days you dont craft) looks pretty damn awesome for being able to craft better stuff than you could normally afford at the start of the game.
Sure it quickly becomes redundant after level one, but for a one skill point investment I wouldnt expect it to be mind blowing.
For mundane crafting, prepare to be disappointed. It's not very time effective. You mentioned mighty composite longbow, if you try to make one with a 5 strength mod, better set aside a week or two to work on it.
Oh, it's much worse than that.
The DC to craft it is 25. Assuming you're able to take 10 and achieve a 25, you make 625 sp worth of progress in a week (a valet familiar doubles this progress to 1250.) That means it'll take 5 weeks to craft.
Adding masterwork is another 3000sp with a 20 Craft DC. Again, if you're able to get a 25 with your take 10, you'll make 500sp progress per week (doubled to 1000sp with your familiar), for another 3 weeks of work.
Now, if you're allowed to use the Unchained Crafting Rules, life becomes much better for the mundane crafter.
The cost to create mundane items is even less - only 1/4 of the item's price - and progress is tracked against the crafted item's cost rather than its price.
Craft DCs are also much-simplified.
The DC to make a Composite Longbow of any STR adjustment is only 15, and making it Masterwork simply increases the DC by 5.
So a MW Composite Longbow with a +2 adjustment would cost 150gp to craft (1/4 of 600gp.)
Progress is tracked in gp per day based on the DC (but progress scales based on the result of your check.) If taking 10 enables you to achieve a 20 result, you'll make 4gp progress per day (doubled to 8gp with your valet familiar.) That means you'll make 56gp progress per week, but you're only going against the 150gp cost, so it'd "only" take 19 days to craft (of course, this is sped up significantly with a good craft check.)
A non-MW bow is even easier, since you're only paying 75 gold at cost, so it'd "only" take 10 days to craft.
As to whether or not you can use Craft skills pre-game, it's up to the GM, but I'd certainly allow it. The rules on Wealth by Level and Crafting state that a character should be able to use magic item crafting feats pre-game because they've invested feats into being able to do so. In your case, you're investing a skill point (quite the investment for a 2+Int mod class), a trait, and two archetypes (yours and your familiar's) in order to be able to craft some mundane equipment. That's an investment far exceeding the value in gold you're trying to acquire.
Speaking of the Unchained Crafting Rules, has anyone found a calculator that does the math for you? I have one for the original crafting rules. I currently use the Making Craft Work PDF from Spesna Games.
Crafting expensive items works fine as long as you can rent some Amazing Tools of Manufacture. I figure someone could make an investment in a set of those and make a tidy sum loaning them out when they aren't crafting themselves. Seems like the kind of thing you find in big cities.