So I have been out of the loop of Pathfinder for awhile and I wanted to Create a character Similar to League of Legends Illaoi.
So I got to thinking. Druid...Oracle...Witch. Then it dawned on me the Hybrid Class of Shaman fits the concept really well.
I was thinking picking up a Possessed Shaman focusing on first Ancestors Spirit and Water Spirits for the Wandering class feature with an Octopus as my spirit animal because I don't believe I can choose kraken.
But here is what I have a hard time understanding about the Shaman class itself is Spirit Animal (Ex).
Spirit Animal
By communing with the incredible powers of her spirit, the shaman forges a cherished bond with one specific servant of that spirit—known as a spirit animal. A spirit animal is a creature chosen by a shaman to serve as a conduit, allowing her to more fully access the magic of her spirit on a daily basis. The shaman's spirit animal also grants her special powers. This ability uses the same rules as the wizard's arcane bond class feature and is treated as a familiar, except as noted below.
A shaman uses her level as her effective wizard level when determining the abilities of her spirit animal. A shaman can select any familiar available to wizards to serve as her spirit animal, although her spirit animal is augmented by the power of her chosen spirit. Once selected, the spirit animal cannot be changed. Although a shaman's spirit animal uses the statistics of a specific animal, it is treated as an outsider with the native subtype for the purposes of spells and abilities that affect it.
I have not ever played with an animal companion/familiar/cohort in the campaigns I've been in so I've been having a hard time wrapping my head around this.
If I have chosen Octopus where are these "The shaman's spirit animal also grants her special powers." and how does it benefit me I cant seem to find anywhere in the Familiar section saying an Octopus has Special powers let alone allow me to benefit from it.
If anyone can explain this or link me to more of a direct answer that isn't a 200 page forum or d20pfsrd It would be amazing.
The power the familiar gains depends on the spirit you choose. For example, if you have the Battle spirit your familiar gets this; "Spirit Animal: The shaman's spirit animal looks like a fiercer version of its species, with rippling muscles and a stockier frame. It gains a +2 natural armor bonus to AC. If it already has a natural armor bonus, the bonus increases by 2 instead."
Link to the PRD. The abilities are detailed in the section of a given spirit so you'll probably have to scroll down a bit to find what you're looking for.
The only special power the master gains is the standard familiar stuff. Unless you consider the requirement to commune with your familiar to prepare spells a "special power".
Jack of Dust:The power the familiar gains depends on the spirit you choose. For example, if you have the Battle spirit your familiar gets this; "Spirit Animal: The shaman's spirit animal looks like a fiercer version of its species, with rippling muscles and a stockier frame. It gains a +2 natural armor bonus to AC. If it already has a natural armor bonus, the bonus increases by 2 instead."Link to the PRD. The abilities are detailed in the section of a given spirit so you'll probably have to scroll down a bit to find what you're looking for.
The only special power the master gains is the standard familiar stuff. Unless you consider the requirement to commune with your familiar to prepare spells a "special power".
Is it really that simple i was thinking it may take even more than that. When it comes down to your "Spirit animal" Are my familiars/animals Spectral in nature or would i have to take the Bones Spirit?
Just a Mort:Octopus grant their master +3 to swim checks. Id say its a bad idea, unless the campaign is fully nautical and you're playing an undine shaman or something, unless you want to spend your adventuring career carrying a fishbowl wherever you go, since octopi are aquatic and can't breathe air.
I didn't look at it from that Point of view. Well all in all im not trying to do a complete conversion. It always leaves more room for freedom.
Spirit animal is just a fluff term for hour familiar, the critter is a physical critter, just happens to be your conduit to the spirit world.
God it then i guess ill have to dig through and find a different familiar. Another question I had was Casting Touch Spells through my familiar.
It says i have to be in contact with my creature then i can choose my creature to be the toucher.
Why would I want to do that? If im touching my creature and my creature is in touch range of an enemy i would also be in touch range so why wouldn't I just touch in response?
I understand my familiar can cast Hexes no matter how far she is.
Some familiars are Small sized and thus have their own square if I recall correctly. In any case, be careful with using your familiar as a toucher. Enemies will end up identifying them as a combatant by doing that so it's a bit risky regardless of whether you have to be in contact with them or not.
I have used a familiar to deliver touch spells to pary members so that I did not need to go to them, I had an owl so it was much more mobile than me. I agree that I would not likely use it offensively, don t want my little darling in harm's way.
I have used a familiar to deliver touch spells to pary members so that I did not need to go to them, I had an owl so it was much more mobile than me. I agree that I would not likely use it offensively, don t want my little darling in harm's way.
that is an amazing idea that didnt cross my mind. But the keyword "contact"
If a shaman is 3rd level or higher, her spirit animal can deliver touch spells or hexes for her. If the shaman and the spirit animal are in contact at the time the shaman casts a touch spell, she can designate her animal as the "toucher." The spirit animal can then deliver the touch spell just as the shaman would. If the shaman casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates. If the shaman activates a hex, her spirit animal can be used to make the touch; she doesn't have to be in contact with the animal to use this ability with hexes.
So your saying i have to us shocking grasp on my "owl" then my owl has to fly over and then transfer that spell to an enemy or ally? Wouldnt the owl itself get hurt from said spell.
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Is it really that simple i was thinking it may take even more than that. When it comes down to your "Spirit animal" Are my familiars/animals Spectral in nature or would i have to take the Bones Spirit?
Yes, it's really that simple.
No, the spirit animal isn't actually spectral in nature. Even the Bones Spirit Animal only gets the effects of Blur rather than being incorporeal.
The Ancestors spirit you were looking at grants the ability: The spirit animal can speak and understand a number of bonus languages equal to the shaman's Charisma bonus.
It says i have to be in contact with my creature then i can choose my creature to be the toucher.
Why would I want to do that? If im touching my creature and my creature is in touch range of an enemy i would also be in touch range so why wouldn't I just touch in response?
Your familiar has its own actions, so it can move after you cast the spell.
that is an amazing idea that didnt cross my mind. But the keyword "contact"
So your saying i have to us shocking grasp on my "owl" then my owl has to fly over and then transfer that spell to an enemy or ally? Wouldnt the owl itself get hurt from said spell.
The familiar is no more harmed by the shocking grasp than you are. But if you have it fly in reach of an enemy and give it a big jolt like that, it could very well be harmed by the enemy.
@wierdo Thank you!
The familiar is no more harmed by the shocking grasp than you are. But if you have it fly in reach of an enemy and give it a big jolt like that, it could very well be harmed by the enemy.
That makes sense thank you.
Ive been taking a look into this class more and more and I love her tool box. between hexes and spells and wandering spirits and wandering hexes I see so much potential.
What kind of Shamans has everyone played?
And where have you notices this class falls short?
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I've heard they're disappointing in melee compared to other divine casters.
The Battle Spirit certainly does have fewer useful powers than the Oracle's Battle Mystery, and their spell list lacks some of the more powerful personal combat buffs such as Divine Favour or Righteous Might (though the Battle Spirit does grant Righteous Might as a Spirit Magic spell).
That makes a lot of sense. Well when focusing on Battle Spirit to help in combat as either a Primary Spirit or my Wandering Spirit it would help how ever i decide to play my role.
How does Wandering Spirit effect my character Cosmetically? Would I take on the cosmetic attributes of the second spirit, lets say if i was Battle Spirit. If I took on Flame would my Eyes Glow on top of my Scars that never heal?
If I Water Spirit and everytime i cast a spell water floats around me, would that stack with my skin glowing from Heaven?
Cosmetic details are really up to you and your GM. See Paizo's FAQ about visual phenomenon of spellcasting, they leave it up to you how to "fluff" the details, other than that there IS some visual phenomenon. Most people don't tend to play with that type of thing, i.e. you casting spell X tends to look the same as any other class casting spell X (since there's no mechanical way to discern the difference, and having fluff reveal that info is changing the game) but what you described sounds fun and flavorful, so more power to you!
I suggest you glance at some guides/threads about Familiars, which won't be Shaman-specific, but since you don't seem to be very familiar with them (ahem), I think it will help you alot. It's a bit of a grey area, but even though you qualify for taking the Feat, it doesn't seem like you could actually select an Improved Familiar due to limitations of Shaman class. The Familiar class feature description within the Wizard class is the basis for Shaman Spirit Animal and other class' Familiars, so reading that will get you up to speed on how they work, what different base Familiars grant as "special bonus" to you, and so on. More base Familiars (i.e. more types of animals) are published in different sources, I believe d20pfsrd.com collates them into one location.
Quandary:Cosmetic details are really up to you and your GM. See Paizo's FAQ about visual phenomenon of spellcasting, they leave it up to you how to "fluff" the details, other than that there IS some visual phenomenon. Most people don't tend to play with that type of thing, i.e. you casting spell X tends to look the same as any other class casting spell X (since there's no mechanical way to discern the difference, and having fluff reveal that info is changing the game) but what you described sounds fun and flavorful, so more power to you!I suggest you glance at some guides/threads about Familiars, which won't be Shaman-specific, but since you don't seem to be very familiar with them (ahem), I think it will help you alot. It's a bit of a grey area, but even though you qualify for taking the Feat, it doesn't seem like you could actually select an Improved Familiar due to limitations of Shaman class. The Familiar class feature description within the Wizard class is the basis for Shaman Spirit Animal and other class' Familiars, so reading that will get you up to speed on how they work, what different base Familiars grant as "special bonus" to you, and so on. More base Familiars (i.e. more types of animals) are published in different sources, I believe d20pfsrd.com collates them into one location.
That makes sense Fluff ive noticed with people as long as it doesnt really effect the game mechanically its okay i just have to be prepared the RP of it.
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I'm saying it for your spirit animal's sake, not you. How'd you feel being stuck in a glass bowl all the time? Mind you, those spirit animals are smarter then some people(looking at barbarians that dump int).
I haven't played shamans for very long(caster shamans for me), but you'll want to be human/half orc/half elf, so you can use your favored class bonus for cleric spells(if you're melee), so you gain access to divine favour. Mammoth spirit seems melee inclined as well.
I have one flame shaman, one life shaman. With your favored class bonus you can add most cleric spells you want to the list, and you get unlimited hexes for long adventuring days. Soumds good in theory, still waiting to see the results of the practical aspects of it.
The spirit magic spells, some sets are good, some merely meh, which means you might be having a spell slot less per level, as compared to a cleric with two well picked domains. Its a bit of a shame some of the best spirit specific hexes(lore spirit), have crappy spirit spells. And a bit of a pity extra hex for shaman does not allow the general hexes, just the spirit specific ones, but again it might step to much on witches toes.
I'm saying it for your spirit animal's sake, not you. How'd you feel being stuck in a glass bowl all the time? Mind you, those spirit animals are smarter then some people(looking at barbarians that dump int).
I haven't played shamans for very long(caster shamans for me), but you'll want to be human/half orc/half elf, so you can use your favored class bonus for cleric spells(if you're melee), so you gain access to divine favour. Mammoth spirit seems melee inclined as well.
I have one flame shaman, one life shaman. With your favored class bonus you can add most cleric spells you want to the list, and you get unlimited hexes for long adventuring days. Soumds good in theory, still waiting to see the results of the practical aspects of it.
The spirit magic spells, some sets are good, some merely meh, which means you might be having a spell slot less per level, as compared to a cleric with two well picked domains. Its a bit of a shame some of the best spirit specific hexes(lore spirit), have crappy spirit spells. And a bit of a pity extra hex for shaman does not allow the general hexes, just the spirit specific ones, but again it might step to much on witches toes.
What do you mean by unlimited Hexes
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You can use hexes unlimited times per day(the harmful ones). Some like misfortune, are once per target. If you meet 30 bad guys over the course of the day, you could use misfortune 30 times =) Most caster shamans will pick their witch hex to be slumber and set up Coup De Grace opportunities for their party all day long.
You can use hexes unlimited times per day(the harmful ones). Some like misfortune, are once per target. If you meet 30 bad guys over the course of the day, you could use misfortune 30 times =) Most caster shamans will pick their witch hex to be slumber and set up Coup De Grace opportunities for their party all day long.
ohh thats good. I know a few rouges and barbs that would love that aspect.
So Shamans are CHA and WIS based when stating in a buyout system what should i lean towards if i want to focus more on the caster/wildshaper side of being a shaman.
shamans don't wildshape.
shamans don't wildshape.
Okay Fine. Not Wildshape. Shapeshift.
The shaman transforms herself into another form for a number of minutes per day equal to her level, as alter self. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. Changing form (including changing back) is a standard action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. At 8th level, this ability works as beast shape I. At 12th level, this ability works as beast shape II. At 16th level, this ability works as beast shape III. At 20th level, this ability works as beast shape IV.
I haven't actually tested it in play but I imagine it would play like a Wild Shaping Druid without the Natural Spell feat. Just make sure to cast all of your buffs before combat and only change back to your regular form in combat if you really need your spells for ranged attacks/save or sucks.
Edit: As for stats, it would require a good Wisdom, good Strength and a decent Charisma. Dexterity isn't very necessary beyond applying a bonus to initiative. Definitely not something that would function very well with a low point-buy.
I may not cast spells but could I still use hex's?
Bruh, get Dirty Tactics Toolbox. It's got a druid archetype called Kraken Caller that is LITERALLY Illoai.
Holy hell that class is totally her. I think that would shine better in an aquatic campaign.
Since all the good points everyone has brought up I was thinking a Dino shaman with hexes and cleric spells can shine real well with shapeshifter. That's of course if I can uses hexes in beast form.
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No problems using hexes in beast form. Hexes are purely mental, don't need any verbal, somantic or material component. Only problem is they eat your standard action, so no beating stuff and hexing it on the same round. Think feral combat training got nerfed so it doesn't work with hex strike for putting a hex on your natural attacks.
You can't take natural spell because you don't have wild shape feature, so you can't cast spells while shapeshifted to animals. Humanoid forms shouldn't pose a problem.
Thank you that makes sense. Then again if I cared about casting while in other forms I would might as we'll play as a Druid. I can look at it as my spells are used to aid my team and biff me. With a couple of damage spells and focus on meta magic feats that help my hexes and use the feat hex strike like you said and I don't see a nerf unless it used to be stronger?
Benefit: When you gain this feat, choose one hex that you can use to affect no more than one opponent. If you make a successful unarmed strike against an opponent, in addition to dealing your unarmed strike damage, you can use a swift action to deliver the effects of the chosen hex to that opponent. Doing so does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it, you apply it to a different qualifying hex.
The nerf was applied to Feral Combat Training. Basically it removed the line that allowed you to "apply effects that augment unarmed strikes" to your selected natural weapon.
It now reads:
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.
That said, even with the nerf it looks like Hex Strike would work, at least from my own reading of the two feats.
The nerf was applied to Feral Combat Training. Basically it removed the line that allowed you to "apply effects that augment unarmed strikes" to your selected natural weapon.
It now reads: ** spoiler omitted **
That said, even with the nerf it looks like Hex Strike would work, at least from my own reading of the two feats.
Between everything ive learned i guess it would be quite easy to be self sustaining during encounters. Their tool box although not the best compared to other classes Shaman hold their own really well.
Thank you everyone for your time!