As an aside, one of the most infuriating things when researching this is that Paizo often uses "weapon" interchangeably with "manufactured weapon". Except natural weapons and weaponlike spells and unarmed strikes are also weapons, just different.
Exactly why I felt the need to make this thread.
Well, Flame Blade gets to work with haste and sense vitals because you wield it as a scimitar, which means you get stuff that scimitars get. Mystic Bolts don't have a weapon analogue which is why they work kinda weird.
I think the very essence of what makes something a weapon-like spell is something that makes it clear in the description that it's a magical effect and is wielded as a weapon. I feel that because of "as though they were light one-handed weapons" causes it to fit the weapon-like spell category and by extension count as "manufactured" for abilities that call for those types of weapons.
One way to look at it might be... These abilities create weapon-like spells that can be used as weapons, thus count as "manufactured" weapons for whatever effects might care about being weapons.
However, they're very much not manufactured weapons that you can enchant, make out of adamantine, or what-have-you.
The line might be drawn, I think, like this: For effects that require a "manufactured" weapon and have some sort of effect over their or their users' use, weapon-like spells qualify. For effects that require a permanent or tangible weapon, weapon-like spells do not qualify. I'll have to look into what this rule would entail, but from what I've seen so far it seems like a decent guideline.
I think there really is another category that these fall into. It's not very well defined but there is a term that popped up in the first faq on this list.
For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.
The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.
Spell-based attacks which are not simultaneous, such as multiple attacks per round by a 8th-level druid using flame blade, may apply sneak attack damage to each attack so long as each attack qualifies for sneak attack (the target is denied its Dex bonus or the caster is flanking the target).
(Note that at spell that fires multiple simultaneous rays, such as scorching ray, only provokes one AOO for making the ranged attack instead of one AOO for each ranged attack. It still provokes for casting the spell.
This answer originally appeared in the 9/11/12 Paizo blog.
So i'd extrapolate from these faq's,
---Weapon-like Spells---
- effects resemble manufactured weapons
- spell/ability effects that apply to manufactured weapons apply to Weapon-like spells
- multiple attacks not resulting from BAB only apply precision damage once
- ranged weapon-like spells provoke 2 AoO's
- do not add physical mods to damage rolls
i think the last bullet point is going to get trumped by specific spells saying you use them "as a weapon" a lot of the time but this is what i'd go with as a general ruleset
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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---Weapon-like Spells---
- effects resemble manufactured weapons
- spell/ability effects that apply to manufactured weapons apply to Weapon-like spells
- multiple attacks not resulting from BAB only apply precision damage once
- ranged weapon-like spells provoke 2 AoO's
- do not add physical mods to damage rolls
+1
That's pretty much exactly how I interpret them.
Those are all good points, but I think I'd have to disagree on the double provoking, at least partially.
Scorching ray, for example, provokes twice only because you're casting a spell and making a ranged attack. The same applies to a kinetic blast, for example: You're casting a spell-like, and you're making a ranged attack.
However, something like mystic bolts is simply a full attack. You aren't lapsing your guard enough as if you're casting, the bolts are simply appearing in your hand just as quickly as you're throwing them.
I would say that weapon-like spells have no special rules for provoking. They simply follow existing rules. Melee mystic bolts will not provoke, and ranged mystic bolts will provoke once.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I would say that weapon-like spells have no special rules for provoking. They simply follow existing rules. Melee mystic bolts will not provoke, and ranged mystic bolts will provoke once.
Ok, yes that is fair to say.
If you activated it from SLA or Spell, it provokes from casting and provokes from ranged attacks.
yeah like i said, a general ruleset. there are going to be a lot of individual specific>general situations. id say the category is made up of 2 subcategories, ray-likes and everything else
OK, so it seems like a Mind Blade or Kinetic Blade would fall under the weapon-like spell category, right? And therefore would not be effected by damage reduction?
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OK, so it seems like a Mind Blade or Kinetic Blade would fall under the weapon-like spell category, right? And therefore would not be effected by damage reduction?
Being a weapon-like effect doesn't mean anything. If the effect, whether it's a manufactured weapon, weapon-like spell, or other such phenomena, deals physical damage (bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, and so on), it is subject to damage reduction.
If it deals energy damage (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and so on), then it's subject to resistances.