Non-Lawful Paladin


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Simple Question: Is there any paladin archetype that breaks the alignment restriction?


Grey Paladin from Ultimate Intrigue can be neutral good


It does not, however, allow you to worship any deities that you could not already worship.


Bonus questions:

1) Does grey paladin replace any class abilities, and if so, which ones?

2) What fluff is associated with grey paladins, aka why can they be neutral good?

(doesnt appear to be on the srd yet)

Scarab Sages

SillyString wrote:

Bonus questions:

1) Does grey paladin replace any class abilities, and if so, which ones?

2) What fluff is associated with grey paladins, aka why can they be neutral good?

(doesnt appear to be on the srd yet)

Ah yes... the grey paladin... as in 'remember when paladins used to have class abilities?'


The Grey Paladin loses Divine Grace and all of its immunities become +4 bonuses to saves. In exchange it gets the ability to spend two uses of smite evil to smite anyone, regardless of alignment.

Not a worthy trade, to be honest. Against a Chaotic Neutral BBEG I'd still rather have Divine Grace than Smite Neutral.


Thank you!


Gray Paladin also loses the code except for the "no evil acts" part. It's meant so that you can lie and deceive in an intrigue campaign, not be a normal paladin but with alignment freedom.

Shadow Lodge

Yeah, it's very clearly mechanically and thematically a watered-down paladin serving law and good, for use in a cloak and dagger game that would normally be incompatible the the paladin's code.

Even if you play a NG Grey Paladin serving a NG deity, the new code still says "she can do whatever else she feels is necessary to uphold the causes of law and good."

So not a great place to go looking for a paladin who actually serves a different ideal.


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The thing is that the type of GM that will allow a Paladin in a subterfuge game is already willing to bend the code to make it work, and the type of GM who isn't just turns their nose up at the Grey Paladin and doesn't allow it because it isn't a "real" Paladin.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

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Arachnofiend wrote:
The thing is that the type of GM that will allow a Paladin in a subterfuge game is already willing to bend the code to make it work, and the type of GM who isn't just turns their nose up at the Grey Paladin and doesn't allow it because it isn't a "real" Paladin.

I can imagine a GM who sees it as a decent compromise when they wouldn't typically think it would be a good choice.

Player: Hey, I was thinking of playing a paladin in your urban intrigue campaign.
GM: I dunno, there's gonna be some shady stuff happening. Are you sure you wouldn't rather play a different class that doesn't clash so much thematically?
Player: Well, I've got this paladin archetype where I can bend the rules a little and deal with my character's personal struggle to uphold good and justice in this kind of environment.
GM: That sounds like a nice compromise. I'm willing to try it out, thanks for bringing it up.


Awesome, well I probably will never roll one, mainly because I like divine grace too much, but the idea was playing a NG paladin that's wild at heart (CG) but serves LG causes and acts accordingly when interacting with others - thus averaging out at NG.

Grey paladin seems pretty good to allow that concept, which in my opinion is a bit more fitting for non-standard paladin races that would typically be a bit more "chaotic" by nature, such as halflings, tieflings, wild elves, etc.

Of course i'n not ruling out these races being LG, but NG gives them a little more wiggle room to express themselves.


Eh, for CG characters the Chevalier is still an option, but it is more a slice of paladinhood for another class than a CG paladin pie.

Mind you, a NG paladin of a NG deity still having to uphold law and good rather than pure good strikes me as somewhat counterintuitive.


There is also the Paladin of Abadar that I believe was from the Faiths of Balance supplement I believe that is Lawful Neutral as opposed to Lawful Good, but doesn't exactly make out with very much in the transition either.

Sovereign Court

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As long as you aren't Lawful Stupid, a normal paladin shouldn't have too much trouble in cloak & dagger campaigns. Just because you have to tell the truth doesn't mean that you have to tell 'the whole truth'.

Just let the bard/rogue/whatever do the bluffing and if someone asks you about it say "I'd trust them with my life.". Which - as an adventuring party - you do!


Arachnofiend wrote:
The thing is that the type of GM that will allow a Paladin in a subterfuge game is already willing to bend the code to make it work, and the type of GM who isn't just turns their nose up at the Grey Paladin and doesn't allow it because it isn't a "real" Paladin.

So, basically like every other "alignment restriction" in the game? :)

Anyhow, to answer the OP's question, the Alignment-free Paladin archetype predates the Grey Paladin by about two years, and is actually well written.

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