Arcane Archer for RotRL#6 help

[Anger Nogar]

Hello there. A fellow DM just lost two of his players to pregnancy:) and he asked me to join the two remaining player so they can finish the final chapter of the Rise of the Runelords adventure path. With us being only 3 PCs I'd like to make sure my character is up to the challenge.

The party consist of an Sacred Huntsman Inquisitor and a dual wielding Paladin. I have decided to play a Human Dervish Dancer 12/Arcane Archer 3 since they can use a ranged character and some more supporting buffs.

My feats are: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Arcane Strike, Manyshot, Deadly Aim, Weapon Focus (Shortbow), Deadly Aim, Improved Initiative, Skill Focus: Acrobatics, Skill Focus: Use Magic Device.

My planned spell list is:
1: Anticipate Peril, Grease, Feather Fall, Comprehend Languages, Disguise Self, Abundant Ammunition
2: Locate Object, Mirror Image, Pyrotechnics, Glitterdust, Blur, Tongues
3: Tiny Hut, Slow, Haste, Major Image, Invisibility Sphere
4: Dimension Door, Modify Memory, Zone of Silence, Communal Phantom Steed
5: Shadowbard, Unwilling Shield, Greater Dispel Magic

So far the only spell I feel I am missing is Shadow Walk, but Communal Phantom Steed partially covers that role, so I have used all my favored class points for hit points, but with the human bard favored class option I feel that is a bit wasteful.

Can someone familiar with the adventure give me some general guidelines for important spells that I am missing, or spells that I have but are very likely to turn useless during the course of it?

Also If I understand it correctly - I can use my shadowbard spell to give my party (and myself) normal Inspire Courage while using my Battle Dance for Rain of Blows (as far I can see the Dervish Dancer does not loose his normal inspire courage and the ability to use it as vanilla bardic performance).

[nicholas storm]

As far as I understand it, you don't have regular bardic performance, so shadowbard won't do anything since dervish dancing only affects the dancer.

Arcane archer doesn't really do much for a bard. I would suggest changing dervish dancer to no archtype and playing a straight bard level 15.

[Movin]

The most common enemy types in RotRL are big honking beatsticks and
buffed up enemy casters.

Lots of spells modifying basic monsters to make them more effective or monsters with spellcasting.
So dispel magic is very good to have.

If you can spend money/scroll costs on a few spells of permanency you'd find some use.Getting see invisibility, arcane sight and comprehend languages as permanent effects would enhance your abilities without taking up magic item or spell slots.
Beware enemy dispelling though.
As it seems fairly obvious based on your intent that you don't plan on making a caster bard any spell you cast that has a saving throw at this point is going to be mostly worthless.
At this point in the game if you haven't invested in your spell saves you are going to get laughed at by most level appropriate monsters when you have them make a DC 15-20 save.
You could likely go after cannon fodder with spells but then you have a bow. Why bother?

Dervish Dancer wrote:

Dervish dancers gain the inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, but these only provide benefit to the dervish dancer himself.

So your shadowbard (who is emulating your performance) would grant its benefit to itself. As the spell has access to all the performances that you do and the only inspire courage effect you have grants those bonuses to yourself through battle dance.

As you don't have access to the unmodified version of inspire courage neither does the shadow bard who is using your characters abilities as a template.

Consider bards escape as an alternative. Just like expeditious retreat what it says on the tin isn't actually the best use of the spell.
Bards escape is mass dimension door, it would allow you to act and set your entire party up into the best battle positioning possible.

You are also missing out on the feat discordant voice. Which is amazing for a bard with as many attacks as you will have. Though it works best when the whole party can get in on the action.
Sacred huntsman and dual wielder sounds like they'd love some extra sonic damage tacked on for free.

You might find the Arrowsong minstrel of interest as an alternate route to AA.
As has been stated above AA doesn't net you much as a bard.

Additionally if utility is the desire the bardic masterpiece Arrowsong's Lament would let you do some interesting things.
Carry around a wizards spellbook of various utility spells and use Arrowsong's lament to prep them.

a few sets of Mnemonic Vestments (a steal at 5kgp) and a spellbook with bard spells in it would let you fill in utility gaps with your own spell list as well.

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And now some spell advice.

Disguise self is just going to get you caught by 90% of the stuff you want to sneak past as detect magic/arcane sight is a more common thing in high level.
Seeing through that illusion is just going to make them pay attention to you after all.
As a bard skills are your thing, if you want to have a good disguise have a good disguise.
Don't expect it to be useful unless the rest of the party has it as a skill though.

Grease has a save. Keep for comedy value if you desire but don't expect it to be of any use against monsters at the level you are.

Anticipate peril can be made significantly more useful with the addition of a lesser intensify rod (Lets you get a +10 to initiative instead of +5)

Heightened awareness is a better spell to have up if you don't know when combat will start/ might get ambushed. It can be burned for a +4 bonus to initative (which stacks with Anticipate) So you might consider getting a wand of it if ambush is your jam. The bonus on this spell is static and works just as well at CL1 as it does at CL21.

As blur and mirror image both accomplish the same thing consider Acute senses instead of blur. getting a +30 to perception for 12 minutes (Or double that with a lesser rod of extend spell)
Will turn you into an ambush proofed radar dish.

Slow, as above it has a save. Anything you are going to want to affect with it is going to succeed or totally negate you with spell resistance.
Assuming no one else has it in another form the spell Good Hope grants a Morale bonus to everything you want a bonus to. As bard song is a competence bonus it stacks and is a highly useful thing to have in your armory.

Unwilling shield again, has a save. Unless you intend to have a dominated troll or some other manner of regenerating beatstick following you to have fodder for the spell it isn't worth casting as it will just get ignored.
Plus if you have a dominated buddy you can just get them to wear an item of shield ally or something.

Deafening songbolt is nice, but overcosted.
No SR NO save damage spells spells are rare though so it could be a decent option.
Greater heroism is horrifying in the hands of an archer.
Personally I'd use the slot as fodder for Arrow songs lament so you can get a fun spell from the wizard list.
Communal resist energy could be effective for elemental encounters.

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Phew. That got long.
Hope it helps, bards are great and quite a lot of fun to play.
High level play just adds a monkey wrench to everything though as so much of it is making sure all your numbers line up and you are presenting your best edge in combat.
Rocket tag is in full effect at this point.

[Caimbuel]

After running that AP twice, and before playing it past its end, I can not stress enough if it is played as written a full wizard is so key. As far as your bard, as others have said, concentrate on 1 aspect of it, be it spells, bow or melee. Then past 12 most combat is rocket tag (ie who goes first wins), so being excellent in that 1 area helps you contribute reliably.

AA is a trap for bards IMO.

YMMV

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Caimbuel wrote:

After running that AP twice, and before playing it past its end, I can not stress enough if it is played as written a full wizard is so key. As far as your bard, as others have said, concentrate on 1 aspect of it, be it spells, bow or melee. Then past 12 most combat is rocket tag (ie who goes first wins), so being excellent in that 1 area helps you contribute reliably.

AA is a trap for bards IMO.

YMMV

I too have played it through twice and I concur with the Need for a Wizard (or int Caster). I will add my plug for a Witch. It is an INT caster and this AP screams for one like Wrath of the Righteous Screams for someone to play a paladin. The Witch has the Benefit of Hexes and the Slumber Hex can defiantly do some work on those nasty Giants. But I like to mention the Wizard gets Time stop by the final fight which is strong.

Ranged can be more than a Bow. And the 2 other PCs and the Animal companion will be the teams Hammers. Both of them can heal in some manner so they act as arms as well. The Team is missing the Controller.

This will be a Hard AP if playing it stock for the final parts. A 3 PC team will be missing the action economy of the 4th PC. I do hope he is pulling a few punches or allowing hero points or something. The final fight is considered Extremely difficult/Near Impossible. In my 2 runs we TPKed on the final boss and 2nd run through of the AP I Hero point Time Stopped and handily turned the tides of battle.

Whatever you choose good luck and may the odds ever be in your favor.

[Anger Nogar]

The Dervish Dancer does not modify or reply your bardic performance, inspire courage, inspire competence, etc. The Battle Dances are just an added option (you sill loose your suggestion, dirge of doom, etc)

I see no reason why a Dervish Dancer can't you his normal inspire competence if he is willing to use the action required to initiate it (rather than the action required for a battle dance).

My biggest draw to the class was the bonus attack and dodge bonus (my AC will be of little use against melee attacks, but it can help vs. rays) from Rain of Blows and the option to use acrobatics to get away from a melee enemy and still unload a full attack with Fleet and Dance of Fury.

As for the arcane archer - it seemed like a good idea sacrificing 6 rounds of bardic performance and 1 spellcasting level for 1 BAB and 1d6 damage per arrow. Supposedly the adventure will end in one level so not much else to loose (Imbue and Seeker arrow are pretty useless in my case).

Very good suggestions from Movin, had no idea about the feat and the masterpiece in question (The mnemonic vestment swapping is a bit cheesy for my taste, but getting one is good idea).

Regarding the save spells, I have picked mostly high level vs Will spells (grease is more for its utility vs. grapple an because I had no idea what to do with my 1st level slot), because the Paladin has some focus on intimidation tactics, I figured that there will be some low Wis brutes that will be prone to failing their save. Greater Heroism is very nice choice though, no idea how I skipped this one (actually I know, for some reason I was convinced it is competence bonus).

Thanks for the feedback.

Also regarding the big honking beatsticks... would an acrobatics bonus of +36 (boots of elvenking, skill: focus acrobatics) would I have considerable problems tumbling away from them? I am more of a DnD player and the CMD mechanic is still a bit new to me?

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Anger Nogar wrote:

Also regarding the big honking beatsticks... would an acrobatics bonus of +36 (boots of elvenking, skill: focus acrobatics) would I have considerable problems tumbling away from them? I am more of a DnD player and the CMD mechanic is still a bit new to me?

It is less the Acrobatics...because yes it is high enough...

It is more of these things:

Basic Final book enemy example:

AC 30
hp 270 (20d8+180)
Fort +15, Ref +6, Will +20
Immune cold, electricity, fire

+27/+22/+17 (4d6+22/17–20)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 20 ft.
Spark Shower (Su) 20d6 Reflex DC 29 half; usable once every 1d4 rounds)
Runes (Ex): free action, All creatures within 10 feet of the giant must make a DC 24 Fortitude save or be blinded for 1 round. With no limit to the amount they can do of this.

In my group I watched that common enemy crit and just delete a rogue. Also there happens to be a good amount of casters in book 6 that can and will target the ranged threats first. While the giants keep the melee busy. You best be ready to stop their magical assault on you.

I just feel in a group of Inquisitor and Paladin you need a FULL caster and not a 6th level casters. I mean your about to fight a Immortal WIZARD KING who ruled the city of Greed and ruled with Arcane Might. Runelords where one of the strongest people to live in Golarion. A bard is not going to offer enough magic to handle Archmages.

[Anger Nogar]

I can't say I don't see your point.

[nicholas storm]

From ultimate combat pg33

Dervish dancers gain the inspire
courage, inspire greatness, and inspire
heroics bardic performance types
as battle dances, but these only
provide benefit to the dervish
dancer himself. This ability replaces
bardic performance.