What does a "non-wuxia" high-level wizard look like?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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As I was puzzling over how a high level fighter could be both high level and not too DBZ/Bleach/One-Piece/Naruto shounen anime, it occurred to me that high level wizards would fit very well in those universes, sometimes as the main character.

How many GM's out there have placed the party in dire situations only for the wizard to pull some mcguffin spell out of his hat that fixes everything? How many classical fantasy struggles are just ignored by wuxia reality bending Death Note Kira wannabes?

How would you make magic sufficiently mundane but functional enough to fit better in a genre that is supposedly dominated by sword swingers?


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Some high-level spells might actually not look impressive. Reality-bending is what Wizards do but it doesn't need shouting, flashing lights, explosions or indeed much action to function. Your Wizard could be sitting in a comfy chair, wearing a bathrobe and drinking a cup of tea while achieving their aims.

Consider Wish. "By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality to better suit you." Now, because said Wizard has crazily high intelligence and presumably decent planning skills changing a single variable can overthrow nations, thwart demonic invasions or cause a perfect little cafe/bookshop to open up down the street. All of that can occur "off-camera" while reality looks for its underwear and wonders what it was drinking last night.


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Isn't there an FAQ that says that casting spells is obvious without metamagic?

EDIT

And Wish has somantic, verbal, and material components so the casting uses some gestures, a disappearing diamond, and speaking words of some sort of power. So even in genre conventions that sounds pretty FMA, in fact it sounds like FMA but comically overpowered in the result. Like the philosopher stone use by the military.


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Normally wizards shout all their attacks and make hand signs. Other skilled wizards know what those attacks are and what the signs mean. That sounds like ninjutsu from Naruto. Also consider that wizards can run at full speed or fly 90ft a round while doing this and it seems straight out of a high action magic battle manga.

EDIT: Shocking grasp is basically Chidori


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Transformation is basically a magical girl scene. There's shouting, hand signs, and a magical item used as the catalyst of the transformation. It's even on the witch list, so a 16 year old human girl with a strange patreon and cute animal sidekick!

Sure, it could be a creepy old man mumbling, twitching his fingers, and taking a swig from a flask in a bathrobe... but everyone knows wizards are creepers.


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Everything is as wuxia as you want it to be. I mean, check out this masterful feint and sneak attack.


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The exact appearance of casting is subject to table variation. You must "speak in a strong voice" for verbal components, make a precise gesture with one hand for somatic, be holding any focus and any material component is annihilated. It is also obvious to those around you that a spell is being cast, but the exact nature of this is not specified as far as I recall.

So casting Wish could be the following:
The caster does a little light reading after breakfast.
"I wish they'd do another couple of seasons of that Joss Whendon space show".
*Clicks fingers, the diamond held unseen in the other hand vanishes. The air tastes like copper for a few seconds before it fades*
A couple of months the later, several fanboys have joy-induced heart attacks.


Oh god, Doug Henning cast Wish!

Serisan wrote:
Everything is as wuxia as you want it to be. I mean, check out this masterful feint and sneak attack.

More like displacement and a bad 1d100 roll versus that martial. Gotta avoid those unarmed AoOs, man.


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Technology, sufficiently advanced, is magic. So in similar thought to the twin of this thread... you'd basically need to change the genre. If you want to make magic mechanics possible but feel mundane, fireball is just a grenade or an RPG. Burning hands is a flame thrower. Wish is a tactical nuke strike call in, or application of a lot of resources and man power. The thing is, you've hit the nail right on the head here. People complain about anime style martials and how that's the only way they can keep up with casters, but don't want to see how their favorite casters are all anime style. Either magic is real, or it isn't. Either casters have powers that make mortals look like chumps, or they don't. And if you want to make that playing field even, mortal martials need some form of magic to make that work, even if it's only "wuxia" "weeaboo" "anime" "unreal" fighting abilities and survivability. Thank you for bringing up this point, maybe you'll showcase the logic error so many people seem to have about the topic well enough to change some minds.


Rhedyn wrote:

As I was puzzling over how a high level fighter could be both high level and not too DBZ/Bleach/One-Piece/Naruto shounen anime, it occurred to me that high level wizards would fit very well in those universes, sometimes as the main character.

How many GM's out there have placed the party in dire situations only for the wizard to pull some mcguffin spell out of his hat that fixes everything? How many classical fantasy struggles are just ignored by wuxia reality bending Death Note Kira wannabes?

How would you make magic sufficiently mundane but functional enough to fit better in a genre that is supposedly dominated by sword swingers?

Which genre are you talking about? If you're talking about novels and movies, the answer is all in the writing.

If you're talking about D+D and Pathfinder, you're the first to suggest that martials dominate this game.


The less natural and relaxed magic feels, the less fantastic it becomes.
When magic is less about snapping your fingers so Cool Effects start happening and more lot of paperwork and frustrating obsession over details, magic becomes less radical.

Vancian Magic is the opposite of anime, where force of will and power of self are more important. Cleric is mundane, he is nothing more than a clerk of a higher power. It would be a harsh lesson if they made a long request to their deity why they need certain spell for that day but management at top decides it is not currently relevant to religion goals.

"Another Summon Monster III? Here in management we are concerned about your habit of relegating fighting to the summons as a cleric of Gorum, could you please explain yourself?"
"We have to cut your channels by half to make the next quarter reports looks better on paper"

This is wilful exaggeration but still.


Rhedyn wrote:


How many GM's out there have placed the party in dire situations only for the wizard to pull some mcguffin spell out of his hat that fixes everything? How many classical fantasy struggles are just ignored by wuxia reality bending Death Note Kira wannabes?

Last time this sort of situation happened, it wasn't the wizard who flipped the battle. The party had just defeated a major foe and on that foe's death a major demon makes an appearance, and the party low on resources, and battered, pretty much starts to panic and the collective decision is to run like panicked chickens.

The Paladin decides to cover the party's retreat, and she charges full bore into said demon. The group changes it's mind about retreating lays into said demon, and and after a close battle, manages to scrape a triumph out of the jaws of defeat.

It's more in the player, the group synergy, than the class.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

As I was puzzling over how a high level fighter could be both high level and not too DBZ/Bleach/One-Piece/Naruto shounen anime, it occurred to me that high level wizards would fit very well in those universes, sometimes as the main character.

How many GM's out there have placed the party in dire situations only for the wizard to pull some mcguffin spell out of his hat that fixes everything? How many classical fantasy struggles are just ignored by wuxia reality bending Death Note Kira wannabes?

How would you make magic sufficiently mundane but functional enough to fit better in a genre that is supposedly dominated by sword swingers?

Which genre are you talking about? If you're talking about novels and movies, the answer is all in the writing.

If you're talking about D+D and Pathfinder, you're the first to suggest that martials dominate this game.

Martial classes do dominate the game. 99% of the time if you grab any NPC in the game they will be martial class. That doesn't mean a individual martial NPC is powerful, they are powerful due to numbers though. At least they are with those new troop rules. Suddenly a mob of 100 commoners with torches and pitch forks is real threat to a wizard.


The wizard can just cast cloudkill, assuming 3 or fewer HD they all die without a save if they go near it.


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@Voska: If you mean generic unnamed NPCs, sure. If you mean named NPCs with actual roles in adventures... nah, magic's pretty dominant, especially at higher levels.

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