RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16
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I believe BNW's interpretation is corrwct. The trick is that you apply chronicles one at a time, so when you finally build your GM credit PC, you apply the first scaled down chronicle and you are level 2. That would then make you ineligible to apply a second scaled down chronicle as the PC isn't level 1.
The idea of a couple of scenarios (especially evergreens), then a scaled down module chronicle will nearly get you there as BNW suggested.
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You could also apply two module credits on slow play to create a level 2 character. This would give you 3 XP and the same amount of gold and prestige as one module chronicle at normal speed, but more item access and boons, if those are attractive.
I think there's no advantage applying one module credit on slow play and one on normal speed to get to level 2 with 4.5 XP, since you'd lose out on Prestige, with the possible exception of Emerald Spire Land Rush shenanigans.
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Thanks for replies on this topic! This question arises from a friendly conversation NewtonP and I were having. In this case, we're not concerned about optimizing gold or prestige (although those comments are certainly useful from a strategy standpoint), but rather about the basic mechanic of chronicle stacking at pre-creation vs. other levels post-creation/post-played.
Consider additional hypothetical setup for the scenario outlined by NewtonP above: A player is at a CON experiencing PFS for the first time. They play in 2 games with a Pregen/4, where there are various possible ways of assigning credit. They have not yet created or played a -1 PC.
If they apply both credits to their future level 4 PC, the chronicles will stack such that the PC will accelerate to Level 6 as soon as they reach Level 4. The same thing would happen, of course, if they played a pregen/7 and held the 2 credits for 7th level, accelerating to level 9.
This mechanic is outlined in The Guide.
If you play a 1st-level pregenerated character, you can apply the credit to a newly created character of your very own.
If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you choose one of your characters to assign the chronicle to at the end of adventure, and then apply the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played.
You may not assign a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher.
If you have multiple Chronicle sheets from pregenerated characters, they are applied to your character’s Chronicle sheet stack in the order played when your character reaches the appropriate level, even if this would advance your character several levels.
You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character with the amount of gp gained reduced, and any character specific boons earned must wait to be utilized until the character is of the same level as the subtier on the Chronicle sheet unless otherwise noted.
You do not lose access to any of the Prestige Points, or items listed on the Chronicle sheets that were earned during the adventure, but you do forego downtime.
Alternately, as in the Guide, they can cap the non-1st-level credit and apply it to a Level 1 PC to help jump-start their character.
However, bearing in mind that the character remains uncreated and unplayed, the mechanics question is: can you stack multiple capped credits on the phantom PC that would advance it beyond level 1 once the PC is created?
On the motivation side, the player just wants to have fun with PFS and advance their character. They don't care about gold or prestige and they don't want to have to wait for level 4 or level 7 to get the credit for the games they just earned at the CON.
So, in the above case of 2 capped module credits, if applied to the uncreated PC, it would start at Level 3 with 6XP, 8PP and 2946gp (again PP/gp don't matter for this discussion), once created. The support for this mechanic might be something along the lines of uncreated PCs not really having any level until they are actually created. At the moment of creation, they become (or reach) level 1 and would then be governed by the text that refers to a character reaching a level with stacked credits. Also, a phantom PC might not be governed by the "newly created" or "Level 1" text, since the PC has not yet been created.
Is there really any significant difference among stacking capped credits on uncreated/unplayed PCs vs. Level 4 or Level 7? If so, why?
Does PFS support the fun and aims of players with their shiny CON credits who just want to advance their new PCs at the time of eventual creation vs. having to wait for some portion of the credit and/or advancing suddenly in the middle of their careers?
Also, note that the issue of stacked, capped (or also including st1-2) chronicles on an uncreated/unplayed PC that might advance it multiple levels at creation could occur in any combination of modules vs. scenarios. The 2 module credit example is just to facilitate the above question(s).
Thanks for reading!
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I think there are two reasons why what you're suggesting is a bad idea:
It throws new players in at the deep end in creating and advancing a PC to 3rd level before it's ever hit the table. Skipping over all 1st-level retraining opportunities and building a 2nd-level PC is risky; going straight to 3rd level compounds the problem. Accidentally wasting all that pregen credit on a very sub-optimal PC would ruin anyone's fun.
As it stands, the rules on credit are clear: the only time you can apply it at a lower level is when it's a 1st-level PC, and the gold/boon rewards are clearly defined. Allowing this to edge upwards muddies the waters on what's permitted, and what the rewards are. Your post refers to uncreated/unplayed PCs, but does this include those that have received GM credit? Those that have been played at 1st level, but not above? It creates a whole host of edge cases that would need to be ruled on, and no doubt the complexities would lead to misunderstandings and illegal PCs - no fun for anyone.
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There's no intent above to introduce a player skill or understanding issue or to muddy the water with players who have played their characters in between credits.
Assume the player in the thought example above is experienced in Pathfinder, but has never played PFS. There's no other edge cases in dealing with an unplayed/uncreated character and stacked credits. Also, GM credit is just more stacked credit, even if mixed with player stacked credit. There is also no intent to introduce questions of survivability for single vs. multiple PCs.
The question is purely a mechanical one. Is there any functional difference between stacking capped credits on an unplayed PC until it is first created and played vs. stacking held credits at 4th or 7th?
Also, stacking capped credits on an uncreated/unplayed PC should not lead to a sub-optimal build or ruin anyone's fun any more than it would at 4th or 7th. 7th-level stacking is probably the least advantageous scenario, since the gold rewards at 7-8 in a 7-11 might be better and you would be taking a level 7 credit twice - but it may vary depending on module rewards.
Stacking capped credits at PC creation probably has the least impact from an XP/gold perspective, since gold rewards are at their lowest at sub-tier 1-2, and with 150 starting gold, those first 6 XP would average out at 491gp/XP. Even without starting gold, 1398gp capped is roughly equivalent to sub-tier 1-2 rewards. Anyway - the gold isn't the primary concern, as above.
Secondarily, is a character 1st level before it's created? Do the words "newly-created" apply before the character is created/played?
This part of the question asks if a new character "reaches" 1st level at the moment of it's creation, where it would then be treated exactly the same as "reaching" 4th level with stacked credit or "reaching" 7th level with stacked credit.
Rather than complicating things, this interpretation simplifies them and makes stacked pregen credit, capped or not, work the same at Level 1/unplayed, 4 or 7.
Otherwise, if the character is created and played at level 1 or played in between credits, then none of the above discussion relating to stacking credits on an unplayed PC would apply.
Does that help clarify the question?
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The question is purely a mechanical one. Is there any functional difference between stacking capped credits on an unplayed PC until it is first created and played vs. stacking held credits at 4th or 7th?
I believe that there is.
Secondarily, is a character 1st level before it's created? Do the words "newly-created" apply before the character is created/played?
It applies to any 1st level character, and any character that has not been played yet. (1 7th level blob of DM credit is still a newly created character(
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BNW - can you elaborate on why you think there is a difference in the mechanic relative to the stated example?
2x Pregen/7 Module credits held for 7th level: Reach 7th, +2 levels
2x Pregen/5 Module credits held for 4th level: Reach 4th, +2 levels
2x Upper Pregen Module credits capped for new PC: Create PC (or "Reach" 1st), +2 levels
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BNW - can you elaborate on why you think there is a difference in the mechanic relative to the stated example?
2x Pregen/7 Module credits held for 7th level: Reach 7th, +2 levels
2x Pregen/5 Module credits held for 4th level: Reach 4th, +2 levels
2x Upper Pregen Module credits capped for new PC: Create PC (or "Reach" 1st), +2 levels
Here's the difference (IMO)
Sheets can only be dropped to 1st level, they can't be dropped to 2nd. You apply the chronicle sheets in order. So Module 1 now makes your character 2nd level, he's not eligible to take another 1st level sheet. That chronicle would have to be held until he was the appropriate level to take the sheet. On your 4th or 7th level sheets those chronicles didn't alter the gold value in order to meet a secondary condition that is allowed under a different rule, thus they still meet all the qualifications to take the chronicle and level up. If however, they have 2 modules waiting at 7 that are tier 5-7 (for example), they would need to either slow track at least the first module (they could slow track both) or move the second chronicle to a different character (that is still below that level) or they would tier out of the second chronicle sheet. Functionally by trying to drop 2 modules (using a pregen or GM credit) to first level but not slow tracking you are tiering yourself out of the chronicle.
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If this is for the hypothetical brand new player, I'd speak to the advantages of having two 1.5xp characters, rather than one at 4.5xp or 6xp, or two at 3xp. Gives them variety when sitting down at a mixed table, a backup for if one dies, decent starting gold for each, enough Prestige to purchase a wand, and enough time to test the character out before they're locked into a build.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Because chronicles are never "held" for 1st level. Unplayed pcs are level 1, not level 0, so a chronicle applied to an unplayed PC is applied immediately when it is issued. If the chronicle is a mod, it advances them immediately to level 2. Advancement occurs when the chronicle is applied.
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Hmm...there is some confusion about the nature of my question. Sorry, all - I'll try to be more clear.
...but first...Joe Ducey - Pregen chronicles stack at 4th and 7th and they apply in the order received when the character reaches that level. If someone plays a pregen/7 in 2 modules and holds those chronicles for the same -n character, that character progresses 2 levels (+6XP) when it reaches 7th and the chronicles are applied (in order). Respectfully, there is no requirement to go slow on the 1st chronicle or move the 2nd chronicle to another character. In your answer, you are adding an assumption that any chronicles being held have to apply to the same level character, where the Guide indicates otherwise.
The exact text is:
If you have multiple Chronicle sheets from pregenerated characters, they are applied to your character’s Chronicle sheet stack in the order played when your character reaches the appropriate level, even if this would advance your character several levels.
Because chronicles are never "held" for 1st level. Unplayed pcs are level 1, not level 0, so a chronicle applied to an unplayed PC is applied immediately when it is issued. If the chronicle is a mod, it advances them immediately to level 2. Advancement occurs when the chronicle is applied.
OK - yes - let's all agree that that's how it works...no problem...and p.7 of the Guide states: "All new Pathfinder Society characters begin play at 1st level." So, whether it's a -n TBD or new character, it's 1st level.
Now...for the hypothetical question, throw out that assumption and address the issue of what actual, mechanical difference it makes if upper-level pregen (or other) credits are stacked on a PC that has not yet been created (and has technically not "begun play") and, when created, it then advances multiple levels.
Per the above p. 21 Guide text, multi-level progression can occur at 4th and 7th with stacked pregen credits, so why not also allow it at 1st for unplayed PCs?
To me, the mechanic appears identical. It changes/breaks nothing, but does support the player who wants to make immediate use of all of the credits they have earned.
Hypothetically, putting aside existing 1st-level pregen credit rules and discussion of gold, PP, level or diversity optimizations, is there any significant, game-breaking impact of allowing stacked pregen credits at 1st level to work the same way that they do at 4th or 7th?
If there isn't any significant difference and the mechanic is identical, then maybe this is an area where there could be consideration for a future rule change to support immediate use of pregen credits.
Thanks for reading and commenting, and I hope my explanation succeeded this time.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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HoloGnome, let me see if I understand your question correctly.
Scott the New Player comes to a convention and plays six scenarios, all with a 4th-level pre-gen. So, assuming Scott applies all the credit to the same not-yet-designed PC, there are some options:
option a: Scott will apply all the pre-gen credit when his PC reaches 4th level. At which point, the delayed XP triggers and his character leapfrogs ahead to 6th level.
option b: Scott applies one credit for the character at first level (reducing the cash reward to 500 gp). He applies the rest of the pre-gen credit for when his PC reaches 4th level. At which point, the delayed XP triggers and his character is one adventure away from 6th level.
option c: Scott applies three credits for the character at 1st level (reducing the cash reward for each of them to 500 gp). He applies the other three credits when his PC reaches 4th level. At which point, he leapfrogs ahead to 5th level.
option d: Scott applies all 6 credits immediately. His character begins play with 3000 gp, 6 XP and the fame commensurate with the success he earned with his pre-gen.
My understanding is that only options a and b are legal.
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Is this a big deal? Maybe not where you game. But watch the faces of your players when someone sits down at the table with a 4th- or 7th-level pre-gen. I'll bet you there's some trepidation, and part of the reason might be experience with players who have deliberately screwed around with a scenario, knowing that they're playing a no-lose situation. If their pre-gen dies, they grab a new one and assign the death to a never-played PC. If the party wins, they then decide which PC to attach the credit.
There's a natural brake to the benefits of this bad behavior: if they want to cash in the rewards, they'll start with a new character. At best, that PC will have 1 XP and (150 + 500) gold.
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If Scott wants to start a character at 2nd level, he should play a 1st-level pre-gen.
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I actually disagree that you could play a (for example) 7th level Pregen in two back-to-back 5-7 Modules, as you'd be ineligible to receive the second Chronicle after leveling to 8 from the first Chronicle.
Not that I've ever heard of that happening, to anyone. But since we're speaking hypothetically.
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BNW - can you elaborate on why you think there is a difference in the mechanic relative to the stated example?
2x Pregen/7 Module credits held for 7th level: Reach 7th, +2 levels
2x Pregen/5 Module credits held for 4th level: Reach 4th, +2 levels
2x Upper Pregen Module credits capped for new PC: Create PC (or "Reach" 1st), +2 levels
Short answer: because your character REACHES 4th or 7th. They are already AT first. You can't assign pregen credit to character that could have played instead except at 1st level.
Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Asheville
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I actually disagree that you could play a (for example) 7th level Pregen in two back-to-back 5-7 Modules, as you'd be ineligible to receive the second Chronicle after leveling to 8 from the first Chronicle.
Not that I've ever heard of that happening, to anyone. But since we're speaking hypothetically.
Isn't the appropriate level in that case five, rather than seven? I thought that was why the GM wrote in '6-8' on my Serpents Rise Chronicle.
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I am confused about this argument, maybe I am skimming it too much, does not this from the guide answer the questions?
If you have multiple Chronicle sheets from pregenerated characters, they are applied to your character’s Chronicle sheet stack in the order played when your character reaches the appropriate level, even if this would advance your character several levels.
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option c: Scott applies three credits for the character at 1st level (reducing the cash reward for each of them to 500 gp). He applies the other three credits when his PC reaches 4th level. At which point, he leapfrogs ahead to 5th level....
My understanding is that only options a and b are legal.
I believe c is legal as well.
You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character
The language about being a new 1st level character was dropped some time ago, and on purpose to help out this exact situation.
I agree that d is illegal, as the character is no longer level 1 for those sheets.
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option c: Scott applies three credits for the character at 1st level (reducing the cash reward for each of them to 500 gp). He applies the other three credits when his PC reaches 4th level. At which point, he leapfrogs ahead to 5th level....
My understanding is that only options a and b are legal.
I believe c is legal as well.
You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level characterThe language about being a new 1st level character was dropped some time ago, and on purpose to help out this exact situation.
I agree that d is illegal, as the character is no longer level 1 for those sheets.
A character with 1 xp is not a [new first level character] but is a 1st level character.
A character with 3 xp is not a first level character.
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Nefreet: The Guide text on p.21 (as included above) indicates that pregen credit stacking at 4th & 7th includes possible progression through multiple levels. There is no extra rules qualification for either scenario or module sub-tier or resulting character level after all the pregen credit stacking resolves, except that it resolves in the order received and may include multiple levels. Therefore, if you play 2 modules with a pregen/7 and stack on the same character with normal progression as held credits, both apply when that character reaches 7th level and the character progresses directly to 9th level (as quoted above).
PFS Team: If you do not intend upper level pregen credit stacking to work at Level 4 or Level 7, please chime in and explain the text on Guide p.21 noted above that outlines stacked credit and progression through multiple levels, since there seems to be some confusion about how held pregen credits are stacked/applied (and it may include me if my interpretation is not correct). Thx!
BNW: The question is, putting the current Level 1 rule aside for a moment and assuming pregen credits stack and resolve as outlined in the Guide, is there any reason why the stacking mechanic at level 1, if it were allowed, would be conceptually any different from stacked pregen credits at level 4 or level 7? In the stated example above, 2 levels are 2 levels, whether originating at L1, L4 or L7.
If Level 1 pregen stacking were allowed, I think it would simplify and improve the use of capped pregen credits as applied to unplayed characters and also make the use more consistent across the various levels.
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Chris: Thanks for the extra examples with Scott of the CON-arctic! :-)
In terms of the rules as I understand them, I would say that a, b and c are legal and d is not legal.
In terms of my hypothetical question, which poses a change to the rule for pregen credit stacking on unplayed PCs, it advocates that there is no functional difference between stacking pregen credit on an unplayed PC vs. the stacking that occurs at L4 and L7. It simplifies the use of capped pregen credit and allows players to make use of the credit right away.
The hypothetical question proposes a rule change that would make d legal for pregen stacking on new/unplayed PCs.
As for the other issue of player intent with pregens, I try to assume the best and hope that players will act with integrity. The existence of pregens is GREAT for many reasons and their permitted uses stimulate entry into Pathfinder Society for new players.
Also, there's no way to stop those who want to game the system and if the majority of pregen use facilitates growth and is inclusive for new players, then the minor amount of abuse is less significant in my opinion. As a GM, I try to limit abuses, but thankfully don't encounter pregen abuse very often, if at all. For example, I've filled many tables with strangers who want to try out PFS or aren't sure what character to build or use, or I use pregens to fill out tables of 3, etc. So far, I haven't really seen anyone using a pregen to dodge death. In fact, I am about to run Bonekeep and the players specifically requested no pregens for the assembled party, so that's how it will be!
The thing I do see is multiple players who bring upper level PCs to lower level fights - like Level 5's for sub-tier 1-2 (when not breaking the APL), because they either want to play their character (which usually ends up dominating) or don't want any risk. For best table experience, I usually recommend nothing higher than sub-tier + 1 level OOS, but it's up to the player and anything in-tier is technically legal. The APL usually does a reasonable job of protecting the experience, but not always.
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...Does PFS support the fun and aims of players with their shiny CON credits who just want to advance their new PCs at the time of eventual creation vs. having to wait for some portion of the credit and/or advancing suddenly in the middle of their careers?...
To me, so this is just my opinion, skipping entire subtiers is NOT fun. This statement seems to say not playing your character IS fun. Is this a commonly held opinion?
I wanted to play a dragon disciple so was happy to GM Blob the sorcerer level & most of the pali-levels. I made sure to GM scenarios that I had already played, so I wouldn't miss playing any scenarios. Now I mostly go slow track so I can play the same amount. I can sort of see this appeal for this reason, but considering not playing your charatcer for entire tier 'fun' is foreign to me.
I don't want to derail the thread, & I am not saying someone won't enjoy it, I just want to understand the appeal for those who do.
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Similar occurrences to my example above could include playing a 7th level Pregen through a module, followed by playing it through a 1-7 or 3-7 scenario.
The character would be 8th level after the module and beyond the scope of the level ranges for the scenario.
I don't think the language about Chronicle stacking supercedes the requirement to be within the level range of a scenario.
But, again, I've never heard of this actually coming up IRL.
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I believe that language is there specifically to to allow you the credit even if you out level by playing a pregen too many times.
So if you say played a level 7 pregen in 39 different scenarios, applying it all to the same character when they hit 7.
Once you hit 7 you'd continue applying them even once you got out of the level range for those scenarios.
Bringing you up to 57xp and level 20. Of course your gold would be 'somewhat less than optimal', but it solves the problem of what to do with held sheets that you don't qualify for.
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I believe that language is there specifically to to allow you the credit even if you out level by playing a pregen too many times.
So if you say played a level 7 pregen in 39 different scenarios, applying it all to the same character when they hit 7.
Once you hit 7 you'd continue applying them even once you got out of the level range for those scenarios.
Bringing you up to 57xp and level 20. Of course your gold would be 'somewhat less than optimal', but it solves the problem of what to do with held sheets that you don't qualify for.
A new path to 20!
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Curaigh: Maybe not, but the player has already played and fun is using the credit to build their character, etc. It's really a personal choice and whether it applies sooner or later, the net effect on leveling is the same.
Rob: I agree with that assessment...and LOL! Who needs a 33XP Seeker? ^_^ Ten Shmen.
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Bringing you up to 57xp and level 20.It's funny that I was actually using that rationale as evidence to disallow such a practice.
If it's already been confirmed to work that way before, then alrighty. I'll be sure to carry around some gold stars for if I ever encounter such a player.
Me too, I had interpreted what was being said as "yes, you can have multiple levels held assuming you remain in tier for them to count". Apparently, that is not the case. Good to know, I guess.
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option c: Scott applies three credits for the character at 1st level (reducing the cash reward for each of them to 500 gp). He applies the other three credits when his PC reaches 4th level. At which point, he leapfrogs ahead to 5th level....
My understanding is that only options a and b are legal.
I believe c is legal as well.
You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level characterThe language about being a new 1st level character was dropped some time ago, and on purpose to help out this exact situation.
I agree that d is illegal, as the character is no longer level 1 for those sheets.
Yes, this.
I believe that language is there specifically to to allow you the credit even if you out level by playing a pregen too many times.
So if you say played a level 7 pregen in 39 different scenarios, applying it all to the same character when they hit 7.
Once you hit 7 you'd continue applying them even once you got out of the level range for those scenarios.
Bringing you up to 57xp and level 20. Of course your gold would be 'somewhat less than optimal', but it solves the problem of what to do with held sheets that you don't qualify for.
I dunno about this, but if someone wanted to do it to take themselves above 12, I probably wouldn't question it unless they actually wanted to play the character in another module for official credit (cause if they aren't going to, then who cares, really?).
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OK - so everyone is now in sync on the rules with respect to stacking pregen credits at level 4 and level 7 per the Guide and also regarding the fact that level 1 works differently.
Now that the points of reference have been clearly established, what do you think about a possible rule change that would allow the exact same mechanic with stacked pregen credits, capped or otherwise, at 1st level on an unplayed PC (or maybe even a played PC that is still at 1st level) instead of the current special case of drawing a hard boundary between level 1 and level 2 that prevents stacking?
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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The only difference for level 1 is that you are allowed to apply a credit from playing a 1st-level pregen (or from a higher-level pregen reduced to 1st-level) to a 1st-level character.
Note that you never get to 'stack' those 1st-level chronicles; your character is already at 1st level, so the chronicle gets applied immediately.
I see very little value in a further change to the rules; the most recent change (allowing L1 pregen chronicles to be applied to any first-level character, not just to a newly-created character) handled the case of somebody who played a pregen in all three sessions at a game day before actually building their first character.
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Thanks, John. The main value is that a player could use multiple stacked credits right away to build their character and they wouldn't have to hold them for 4th or 7th level in the event that the stacked credits would cause the character to progress multiple levels.
This specific hypothetical, as above, relates to using multiple upper level pregen credits that are capped and stacked (such as 2 module credits in the stated example) on a new, unplayed character (that could, for example, cause it to progress from 1st to 3rd level).
Peripherally, there is also value in that if a change like this were to occur, it would seem to simplify/unify the mechanic vs. how it works for multiple stacked pregen credits at levels 4 and 7.
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Actually, to be honest, there is no difference in how credits should be applied to any character once it reaches the level the credits can be applied.
Once your PC has reached a level where pregen credit applies, all pregen credits from that level immediately apply. The looseness in the rules for 4th & 7th level pregen credits is, basically, to cover player forgetfulness, where they have already queued up enough pregen credits on a PC for it to skip that level, but accidentally queued up additional credits past that.
It should be avoided, IMO, and, indeed, the rules should include that it is in a player's best interest to avoid such a circumstance. In most cases, other than applying credit for a 4th level pregen in sub-tier 4-5 in a 1-5, or a 7th level pregen in sub-tier 7-8 of a 7-11, the PC receiving credit will be getting less money than he should.
1-7 or 3-7, receiving 3-4, instead of Out-of-Tier average of 3-4 & 6-7, for one example.
For a 1st level PC, even an undefined blob, all pregen credit tiered for 1st level applies immediately. Once that PC has 3 XP, even if he is still a generic blob, he is no longer first level, and not eligible for 1st level pregen credit.
Which is a good thing, as the 400 gp difference, and having only 8 Fame at 3rd level would be a bad thing(tm). At higher levels, not so much, but at third level, it can be breaking.
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option c: Scott applies three credits for the character at 1st level (reducing the cash reward for each of them to 500 gp). He applies the other three credits when his PC reaches 4th level. At which point, he leapfrogs ahead to 5th level....
My understanding is that only options a and b are legal.
I believe c is legal as well.
You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level characterThe language about being a new 1st level character was dropped some time ago, and on purpose to help out this exact situation.
I agree that d is illegal, as the character is no longer level 1 for those sheets.
A character with 1 xp is not a [new first level character] but is a 1st level character.
A character with 3 xp is not a first level character.
My understanding of pregen credits (and GM babies where you just applied GM credit) is that the character is considered "new" and thus the build is morphable until you actually play the character at a table at level 2+.
I just got a level 4 pregen credit chronicle that I applied to my -7, for example. I've never played my -7 character. The only other chronicles on that character's stack are a convention boon and GM credit for wounded wisp. And depending on how much I run stuff for Core, I may not play that character till he's level 4. As such, regardless of how many chronicles are on the character's stack (applied or held till higher level) I can rebuild the character infinitely until the character is actually played. After all, till I play the character it's just a name and PFS number.
Is that not correct?
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I am not opposed to the suggestion, though I would recommend to newbies not to skip the entire tier's worth of play.
The difference in 4th & 7th chronicles and 1st isn't so much an issue of stacking, but an issue of chronicles. Applying a non-tier chronicle to a firstie requires altering the gp earned. Altering chronicles is a big no-no but an exception is made so a newbie can apply the game played to their future/first character.
While I think the changes are pretty straight forward we don't want this change to be used as a precedent for other chronicle alterations.
Potentially, a firstie character may also have access to balance-affecting boons or treasure. (For example, there are quite a few magic weapons that jump to mind for me). Limiting these to 3 chronicles might be intentional balancing factor. In the case of 4th & 7th these come available when the character is reasonably expected to have access to them already, but it comes several character levels early when applied to a firstie.
As others have said this also messes with wealth-by-level for the character. It mostly hurts the character themselves, but could potentially affect other characters. Most notably in the party covering consumable expenses of the character or not having enough gp or PP available in the case of death. We have seen "playing up" get abused for gp reasons, so I would expect some flak for players choosing to hinder themselves in this way.
I think if you really want this option, you should run the numbers to see how far off wealth-by-level table it is. Also see how far the 4th & 7th level stacking skew from the norm. I would also like to see how body recovery & resurrection availibility compares to a non-stacking firstie.
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Whether you can rebuild the character and whether it qualifies for a chronicle are unconnected.
You add chronicles to the character (character number, if that's clearer) one by one in the order that you played or GM'd the applicable games, as soon as the character is high enough level to qualify. edit: Before the character receives any adventure chronicle that potentially could grant XP, it is new. When it has 0 to 2.5 XP it is 1st level. When it has 3 to 5.5 XP it is 2nd level and can't receive any chronicles that are available only to 1st level characters, and so on. It doesn't matter for this purpose whether you ever played the character.
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My understanding of pregen credits (and GM babies where you just applied GM credit) is that the character is considered "new" and thus the build is morphable until you actually play the character at a table at level 2+.
I just got a level 4 pregen credit chronicle that I applied to my -7, for example. I've never played my -7 character. The only other chronicles on that character's stack are a convention boon and GM credit for wounded wisp. And depending on how much I run stuff for Core, I may not play that character till he's level 4. As such, regardless of how many chronicles are on the character's stack (applied or held till higher level) I can rebuild the character infinitely until the character is actually played. After all, till I play the character it's just a name and PFS number.
EDIT: ninja'd
Is that not correct?
Mostly. Did you apply that 4th level pregen credit as a 4th level or as a first level? That is the difference. A non-first level chronicle can be assigned to a first level character by making changes. As pointed out above, doing so three times makes your character 2nd level. This option isn't available to second level characters.
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Applying it as 4th level, so I wrote in the "Chronicle number' field 10, I think, so I know where it'll go in the stack. Thus when I need to add it to the character (instead of just sitting in the stack). I'd considered applying it to a core character I usually play, but that character just hit level 6 so I decided to stop applying GM credits to Xao.
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Kahel, how would pre-filling in the Chronicle number work, if the player plays some adventures at slow progression, or if the character has some bad luck and ends an adventure or two with no experience points?
...or plays a 3XP module, or applies a convention/holiday boon...