I recently started getting into the Gundam franchise, and it's made me wonder how to do mecha in Pathfinder.
I know about the construct armor rules, but I'm looking more for something where the players can make their own mechs. I thought about possibly making a mech race with the race builder to simulate mech customization, but I'm not sure if that would work.
Any advice on how I could do Mobile Suit-Style mechs in Pathfinder?
Ectopic Artisan archetype for the third party class Aegis, taking the mount evolution.
Or Synthesist.
Use the leasership feat and stat the cohort as an Eidolon as if the PC were a Synethist summoner of their class level. Rather than summoning you have to physically get into it. Start them out Large sized for Escaflowne style Mecha progressing to Huge for Gundum.
This approach:
Uses existing mechanics to give a suit.
The suit has special abilities bake in with a progression already integrated with PF mechanics
Is easy enough to add the Construct type to an eidolon and thus allow it to need repairing as one.
Imposes a mechanical sacrifice to get such a sweet ride in line with an existing feat (leadership).
The mech can be equiped as need as well.
For what it's worth, my players once ended up building and piloting a giant robot (taking turns doing so) in order to fight a dragon. XD So... talk to your GM, and ask what material they'd allow for trying to do this idea?
(Unless you ARE the GM, in which case listen to these guys.)
The Eidolon rules are probably the best for simulating a mecha in the official rules.
The Tech Guide might help out some too. House rule something up for mechs, maybe Large get one weapon per arm and one for Torso while Huge get the same but sized up to huge damage die and two extra weapons from the large category. I'd use construct HP with lots of hardness. The Mech counts as mindless and casters dont have line of sight or effect to pilots.
Pathfinder defaults to allowing a normal sized person to fight a huge sized creature fairly easily which defeats most Mecha tropes due to size scaling. That Gundam's Brilliant Engery Longsword is only going to knock out 3D6-4D6+ STR mod damage, survivable by most mid level characters. Unless you want to go for a Xenogears like feel with swordsmen cutting down mook Mechs.
Like the others have said, looking at the synthesist eidolan rules is a good start. However, I would use the craft construct rules for making the mecha, rather than the eidolan rules, but mix the construct armor rules with the synthesist rules. Basically, for all physical stats use the construct, but use the pilot for mental defenses/skills. Not sure I would allow casting from inside the mecha, maybe as a separate module rather than a base ability. (Something like a +2-3 cr cost modification)
Build a mech as a Large or larger humanoid robot-subtype construct, and let it take cyberware without negative effects. (You could even use the existing robots in the bestiaries as base stat blocks.) Model the mech suit as an extraordinary ability that provides temporary hp, hardness, and energy resistance. Shut the suit down when it hits 10% of hp, give all of its components the broken condition at 0 hp, and blow it up when it takes 10% negative hp.
Use the optional called shot rules only for characters targeting mechs. Avoid the vehicle rules unless your mechs are flying around or transforming into wheeled vehicles.
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If you want to get more fiddly/BattleTech-y, require that the mech suit have a power generator. Any time a mech runs during a round, attacks more than once in a round, or takes heat damage, the mech takes 1 heat point of Con damage due to heat buildup. Each heat point expires on its own after 5 rounds, or immediately if the mech takes cold damage equal to 5 per heat point.
Divide its power generator's yield by 100; if it gains a number of heat points equal to that value, the power generator begins overheating. If an overheating mech gains another heat point, it has a 25% chance of exploding.
Having been reading through Traveller lately, there are a lot of interesting ideas to borrow from there. perhaps every XX% of lost HP results in something breaking on the Mech? (reduced movement, loss of weapon, penalty to attack, lower the Hardness value etc.) How far do you want to go with Mecha, how much realism vs fantastical?
I recommend using the Dreamscarred Press Arcforge: Technology Expanded Playtest document. It primarily has info pertinent to the psionic classes with regards to archetypes, but more info for the non-psionic classes is forthcoming. The Mech Piloting feat will give you access to the psi-mech suit, but you'll be treated as four levels lower than someone who already has it baked into their class features.
Gundams are 50m tall, last I checked that is gargantuan. if you want large, then the the something like some of the smallest zooids liek Roids Skippa, the ZOids from the ZOids Wild Anima (most would be medium or large), huge would be godos, iguan, Command Wolf, a lot of M size zoids, most size S zoids might be huge too, between large and huge, since pathfinder sizing is kinda weird. ZOids are also living mecha so it gives you a reasonable excuse for why you are using construct rules, just saying. So you could have players use handle animal checks to raise and train a mech up within a special pocket dimesnion or plane, or buy it as an adult. Note the Zoids in Zoids WIld are close to the "wild zoids" referenced in odler media, as in more basic frames with an open air or enclosed cockpit attached, rather thana transplanted core into a purpose built body...which iss another thign you could do using create construct rules to get a stronger mech from your exist wild mech of same type. Just an idea.
I think most of the mechanics have been covered by the construct and Synethist Eidolon rules, maybe add the Nanite Bloodline powers to it at the proper levels, just for fun.
However we need to address what Torbyne mentioned...
Size scaling makes for pretty lackluster Gundam weapons... even Butchering Axes and HornBows are going to seem mediocre in comparison to what you expect from a Gundam mech.
Maybe offer some evolution for Spellstrike/Ranged Spellstrike and a small selection of Magus spells known/per day?
Or the Living Weapon Android Brawler energy weapon enhancements?
Speaking of the Brawler, maybe include the Constructed Pugilist arm modifications, as well?
Anything to make the mech weapons more than just bigger versions of ordinary weapons...
To get around big, boring weapons... build a grappling Gundam with armor spikes!
There is the apparatus of the crab that you could take a look at. It is a piloted mechanical fighting machine from the core rules.
I guess you could customize an Iron Golem so you can climb inside.
How about if you build a Seige Tower with a Battering Ram and a Ballista and cast Animate Object on it? There are rules for modifying Animated Objects.
Can I just say that I love how xenogears is still relevant today? Because I do. Monk and Brawler Mechs all day.
In fact I'd say the unimpressive scaling works to its advantage in that regard. Its SAFER to fight giant monsters and enemy mechs with your own, because the increased damage is dangerous to people on-foot who would get dunked on by one or two hits, but a couple rounds focused fire can still bring them down.
pad300 wrote: No one has linked THIS ?
Oh that is just magnificent lol.
Although it's a suboptimal use of both the mech and your class, I could see a barb doing this and pretending to be kamina.
Upshot is, if the dm is cool with a raging mech, you can go beyond the impossible and pierce the heavens with your spiral (rage) powers.
I'll uh just put this here in case you're looking for a well-made 3PP ruleset tailored for such things.
Specifically the Suit Pilot archetype.
Ikorus wrote: pad300 wrote: No one has linked THIS ? Oh that is just magnificent lol.
Although it's a suboptimal use of both the mech and your class, I could see a barb doing this and pretending to be kamina.
Upshot is, if the dm is cool with a raging mech, you can go beyond the impossible and pierce the heavens with your spiral (rage) powers. I was unaware of the Possess Object Spell. This is exciting.
I'm thinking Eldritch Knight. You take a level in Fighter, 5 levels in Wizard, and the rest in Eldritch Knight. You'll be 11th level to get a CL of 9, letting you possess a Huge Object, but in 7 more levels, you can posses a Gargantuan object. I'm thinking Shikigami Style, and inhabit a mech that has hands. Use a Sledge Hammer. Take your Fighter level in Titan Fighter so you can use a weapon a size larger. A size Medium Sledge Hammer does 2d6. A Size Gargantuan Sledge Hammer does 6d6 If you have all 3 Shikiami Style Feats and that level in Titan Fighter, your 11th level Eldritch Knight will have a Sledge Hammer that does 16d6 Bass Damage, I think. Then Take Vital Strike Feats...
Is there a Monk/Wizard Prestige Class or Archetype or something like the 3.5 Enlightened Fist? That might be ideal: kung fu mecha. You could do it with 3 levels in Monk with Monastic Legacy followed by 9 levels in Wizard, but that seems clunky.
Theres like a trait or a feat or something I think that can boost your caster level by like 3 or so (to a maximum of you number of HD) if you need to dip your toes into a non casting class longer than just a one or two level detour.
I think its popular with that mixed arcane/divine PrC.
1. Build an appropriately sized shell from material of choice.
2. Cast Animate Object followed by Permanency or Craft Construct to create an Animated Object
3. ...
4. Profit!
For something a bit more battletechy-y, a steam giant makes a pretty servicable urbanmech (minus the jump jets).
Spend the 90,000 gold they cost and buy a Bronze Sentinel!
Scavion wrote: I'll uh just put this here in case you're looking for a well-made 3PP ruleset tailored for such things.
Specifically the Suit Pilot archetype.
Clicked on this thread just to see if this had been linked yet.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Ikorus wrote: pad300 wrote: No one has linked THIS ? Oh that is just magnificent lol.
Although it's a suboptimal use of both the mech and your class, I could see a barb doing this and pretending to be kamina.
Upshot is, if the dm is cool with a raging mech, you can go beyond the impossible and pierce the heavens with your spiral (rage) powers. I was unaware of the Possess Object Spell. This is exciting.
I'm thinking Eldritch Knight. You take a level in Fighter, 5 levels in Wizard, and the rest in Eldritch Knight. You'll be 11th level to get a CL of 9, letting you possess a Huge Object, but in 7 more levels, you can posses a Gargantuan object. I'm thinking Shikigami Style, and inhabit a mech that has hands. Use a Sledge Hammer. Take your Fighter level in Titan Fighter so you can use a weapon a size larger. A size Medium Sledge Hammer does 2d6. A Size Gargantuan Sledge Hammer does 6d6 If you have all 3 Shikiami Style Feats and that level in Titan Fighter, your 11th level Eldritch Knight will have a Sledge Hammer that does 16d6 Bass Damage, I think. Then Take Vital Strike Feats...
Is there a Monk/Wizard Prestige Class or Archetype or something like the 3.5 Enlightened Fist? That might be ideal: kung fu mecha. You could do it with 3 levels in Monk with Monastic Legacy followed by 9 levels in Wizard, but that seems clunky. The writer of Pierce the Heavens guide strongly recommends Possess Object and not Object Possession, but I don't think he is considering that Object Possesion and Lesser Object Possession are much lower level spells, and that means you can start enjoying your character concept much sooner. If you have even 1 level in Wizard, you can use Wands of Possess Object of Object Possession. Wands of Possess Object don't exist: Level 5 Spell.
The writer of the guide is basing his builds on the aquisition of powerful magic items, where my Eldritch Knight concept depends on being able to cast the spells. Which is better depends on the campaign you're in.
There's the Synthesist archetype for the Summoner. Now, I know that this archetype is awful, except that if you houserule that fusing with your eidolon grants you skills and feats as bonus points and bonus feats, it should soften the blow.
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