Ikorus's page

This may not even be the correct board for this, but looking up some other stuff prompted me to take a look at this fighter archetype, which there are two different versions of.

Looking up WHY there are two versions, it turns out the objectively worse one is more recent, and is explicitly a nerf meant to replace the old one entirely in pfs. I dont necessarily agree with this; the idea of trading your 2nd level feat and bravery to not need 13 int for a forced feat you dont get to ACTUALLY benefit from until 4 levels later on an archetype specifically meant to make not dumping int into the toilet offer something akin to actual value seems like really questionable design. But that's not what this is about.

The thing is, archives of nethys marks BOTH versions with its play-legal symplbol. Not even the red ring of "well, yes BUT". I'm wondering what that's about. I thought the old version was meant to be explicitly illegal now, and I havent found anything stating the contrary. Is it a chained/unchained situation like the barbarian where you pick pick based on your build (although why would you ever use the new version of lore warden)? Is AoN just WRONG?

Potentially no retcons at all!

You can ask your DM to slip one of these into her share of the treasure later and make everything happen in-universe.

https://aonprd.com/MagicArtifactsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Hourglass of Transfiguration

It doesn't even have a price, so it wont cut into any spending she wants to do.

This is exactly why we do not roll for stats anymore. One player has 44 point buy and another 10! Level playing field indeed.

No kidding. Doubly bad because paladin is such a MAD class. But I think we put enough options on the table that theres a few ways this can end up workable anyway.

I'm sure theres more too. That's one of the good points of this game.

Okay, questions answered.

Thank you

Why so much wis? Cha to saves means keeping at 10, or going 12, totally viable. Reshuffle them numbers.

11 str/15 dex/12 con/10 int/11 wis/15 cha

Iorian (/Enlightened) paladin https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Paladin Iroran Paladin with agile amulet of mighty fists or handwraps should work with those stats.

It's also way harder for a DM to f!#* you over on your code like they LOVE to do, and their smite variant works on non-evil targets letting their damage be more consistent overall.

Additional tricks can be picked up with clever multiclassling like oracle or monk (unarmed strike feature should stack so that wont be a problem).

I forget the specifics right now because its 4 AM, but one oracle mystery has a revelation that adds charisma to all knowledge checks (still need at least 1 point to make a check), and two others allow variations on cha to AC and CMD that SHOULD stack.

If she goes monk, Scaled Fist has better damage while focusing in on that charisma, or water dancer will allow for TRULY HILARIOUS amounts of AC. Also consider Sohei Monk to always be able to act in the surprise round. It only takes a one-level dip, and she can stick with paladin the rest of the way. But just mono-paladin should be fine too. No matter what, as an a aasimar it's probably best to go azata-blooded.

As far as spells go, do you mean for her (paladin) or yourself (sorcerer)? Either way I defer to others here, but i think it's important to clarify.

1) is it possible for a cleric, paladin, oracle, or whatever else gets the feature to channel energy secretly in any way? Particularly for variant channeling that can give select individuals (by Selective Channeling of course) like the caster themselves beneficial effects? I haven't seen anything, but I could just have missed it.

2) when qualifying for feats, prestige classes, or other things that require a certain amount of skill, is that based on your TOTAL (permanent) skill including traits, skill focus feats, attribute bonuses, class skill bonuses, and so on? Or just the RANKS you put in that skill (iirc no more than equal to your HD)

Okay I've been working on it for a while and I think I have a potential feat and spell progression in mind up to 12th, but spending WBL is way up in the air, as are skills.

I have way too many skills that I want for various reasons. I dont necessarily need to MAX all of them, but having basic proficiency is needed. Maxing Perception is functionally mandatory for all characters. Profession to make some extra money as a merc/professional problem solver during downtimes, knowledges to identify monsters (arcana, dungeoneering, engineering, local, nature, and planes covers them all I think and these can mostly be just to the point of common knowledge without going too far past the surface. Maybe a slightly higher level of knowledge about stuff that came up in his old job), acrobatics is important in melee, use magic device is important for literally everyone especially those with low spells known/spells per day. Intimidate and Sense Motive for social contributions (it sucks to feel useless between sessions of killing things)

So here's what I DO have for the moment, but ways to make it better are very much welcome.

Ah, yeah, if it's for long term use most offensive spells are going to fall off. Scratch color spray then. If your GM hits your alignment for using Infernal Healing, then s/he's kind of a jerk, but nothing you can do about it. You'll just have to shell out the extra cash for CLW. It shouldn't break the bank. I just figured, given how many items and spells you'd be carting around, it would be worth suggesting the most gp-efficient options.

Scrolls are cheaper than alc fire if you can use em. 25 gp savings when you only get 150 apiece is kind of a big deal. The individual creatures in most low level swarms have very bad hp, so catching them in the cone is functionally a nuke button. 1d4 is absolutely fine.

Infernal healing isnt an evil-descriptor spell, it just makes you detect as evil for a while. Not going to be a problem the vast majority of the time and it's actually more resource-efficient out of combat than clw. If you know how you detect is going to matter before the duration is up, THATS when you use clw.

Color spray is a bit spaghetti at the wall, but remember this topic is for first level spells. Most mobs where 1st is worth using wont have great saves so the low DC doesnt matter, and if any effects manage to stick, you basically win.

Agreed about the no solo boss. If its significantly stronger than the party, it wont be killed too fast, but then you have the opposite problem, playing the monster properly without slaughtering the party will be difficult.

You see this problem with dragons a lot. Dragons played right, even young ones, should not be f*%#ed with lightly. You need to be intensely aware of what you're getting into, and plan and prepare accordingly to make the fight as unfairly stacked in your favor as possible or you're all gonna die.

In an arena setting like this, you cant KNOW what to prepare for, so you shouldnt use that type of challenge (the single extremely powerful in general, not dragons specifically).

What might be fun is to pit them against a mirror. Another adventuring party who are the reigning champs. 3-4 humanoids with decent enough stats your caster/s cant trivialize it, but weak enough individually that they wont completely rock your party.

Give them one or two free rounds between waves as the next is being put into position. A round is 6 seconds, so try to figure out how long that would take and go from there.

If they can manage to heal to full? Good for them. If not, oh well guess you gotta do some in-combat triage. The whole point of something like this is to wear down their resources for the day a bit before dropping the hammer, not to actually try to kill them. Spell slots, items, special abilities, anything they use up is a win for setting up an actual challenge down the line.

Magic weapon is always good to have in your pocket. Wands of CLW or Infernal Healing are functionally mandatory in any party for after-battle cleanup. Burning hands is great for dunking on swarms. Color spray is color spray.

That's just off the top of my head

To share personal range spells (nerieds grace on your party paladin!) You need to make a scroll/wand/staff and have them UMD it, or put it in a ring of spell storing. They may still have to UMD.

If you wanna be a healer who can also frontline, theres always the life oracle (life link)/Paladin (lay on hands) build. Take damage instead of your allies, and just self-heal as a swift action while otherwise doing typical paladin stuff. If its evil, Smite it. If not, beat it upside the head anyway.

How about a Cryptid Scholar Investigator?

The problem I see with Gorum's DFT is that...you need to worship Gorum. Or be Chaotic Neutral.

Both of these things can cause some serious mess at a table. I did some looking in on Gorum and he's uh...big on confrontation we'll say. And breaking stuff. Likes to break stuff.

Hes basically Khorne but less overtly evil.

VoodistMonk wrote:

Ex. If something does not require an action, clearly state that it does not require an action... even in obvious stuff like Iron Will. There should just be a place in the definition of feats and abilities where you expect to see the required action, if any, clearly stated.

Ooh, we do have that in PF2, at least! A free-action feat has this glyph: pic

A one-action feat has this glyph: pic
A two-action activity has this glyph: pic
And a feat that isn't an action has no glyph: pic

You might also be pleased to know the spell description of PF2's fireball is only a single sentence! "A roaring blast of fire appears at a spot you designate, dealing 6d6 fire damage."

So does it just immediately manifest in the designated sector? No need for travel or manual aim to get through barricades etc? Interesting. Very interesting. Though I assume you do need line of sight to the target square still. Seems to be a diagonal change. Mostly upgraded, but a little bit of a downgrade too. So not quite a side grade since it's mostly better.

I dont agree with removing fluff altogether, but I do agree with the suggestion it should be either distinctly separated (Fireball: fluffy description here, actual rules here)

Alternatively, greater care can be taken to ensure the fluff IS the rules, or that the rules are written in a fluffy way. Possibly the same thing? (Flying kick "snaps through the air", and therefore ignores terrain and other effects ON the ground until they land)

Decided to go with Fate's Favored for the second trait. It's basically a will boost, but on a delay until I can scrounge up the GP for a Stone of Good Luck. I'll take it, flavor it as a knack for being in the right place at the right time or something (eg, actually getting to participate in campaigns)

Also, it looks like I can legally go crossblooded if you think theres any bloodlines that could cover for some of the more underwhelming tiers of Arcane. The hit to will sucks, especially at lower levels where I wont be able to get resistance gear, but it isnt necessarily a dealbreaker.

So anyway, with the shift to Heart of the Fey, it now looks something like this:

Race - Human (Bonus Feat, Heart of the Fey)
Class - Bloodrager (Metamagic Rager, Urban Bloodrager)
Bloodline - Arcane
Human Bonus Feat - EWP (BS)
1st Level Feat - Power Attack
3rd Level Feat - Iron Will
1st Level Skills - Perception 1, Acrobatics 1, Knowledge (Local) 1, Profession (Soldier) 1
2nd Level Skills - Perception 2, Acrobatics 2, Use Magic Device 1, Intimidate 1
3rd Level Skills - Perception 3, Acrobatics 3, Use Magic Device 2, Diplomacy 1
4th Level Skills - Perception 4, Acrobatics 4, Use Magic Device 3, 4
4th Level Spells Learned - Snowball, Jump

I replaced Shield with Jump because I figure I wont need it right away and can lean on Arcane Bloodrage buffs. Or I could Wand it. It's still on the to-do list though. Why Jump? It seems like something I'd want to be able to do on demand instead of needing to pull out a wand.

On the subject of legality shenanigans, I found something highly amusing.

Seducer Archetype Witch? Not legal for play. Reason? Its not that strong, si it must almost certainly be due to the NSFW nature of some of its benefits. Makes sense so far...

Arshea is legal. Including Obedience, Boons, and Prestige Classes relating to those things. The god that literally says "go forth and f%+@ to get powers. Self-pleasure is acceptable in a pinch. Orgies are also allowed. And probably necessary if you want to last an hour. You have to do this for an hour. Every day."

Cue people getting really, really uncomfortable. Hah.

Treat it as raw materials for weapons, armor, potions, and wondrous items that either require or can conceivably use the parts, for discounts on crafting.

If he wears and/or wields a full set of stuff from one beastie, give him irony bonuses against that creature. Also circumstance bonuses for well-made meals from monster meat/bones/skins/etc

But nothing over the top, just little stuff like a +2 to rolls made to intimidate, or +1 to hit.

Perception is already a class skill. Knowledge nature I think used to be, but then urban removes it because. Yknow. URBAN. So that could potentially be nice to get back. If only to reliably not eat poison mushrooms and s$@#.

Plus the saves are very nice, both of the rager's weaknesses. And low light vision is probably nice. I think I could fit that into the original flavor I was going going with of a mundane footsoldier who was "augmented" to gain these powers.

Just gotta figure out where to take skill points out. Pair it with a will trait (not really sure I wanna go the "unpopular religion" route) and I'll be in a fairly better position saves wise than the average rager.

Maybe good enough to ground zero some AoEs for giggles with restrained magic

Theres like a trait or a feat or something I think that can boost your caster level by like 3 or so (to a maximum of you number of HD) if you need to dip your toes into a non casting class longer than just a one or two level detour.

I think its popular with that mixed arcane/divine PrC.

In the interests of simplicity - well, such as 1e is capable of simplicity - I've decided to stick to only stuff that's PFS-legal, which rules out anything that puts too many bodies on the table, breaking WBL over your knee with crafting, potentially unbalanced 3rd party materials, and...other stuff I dont really understand the reasoning behind but whatever who cares. Also I'm working on like...several different possible next characters to use depending on the table and specific campaign. This is just one of them.

Since Primalist is on the ban list (for good reason, Barbarians would like to be relevant still) this Bloodrager is only a Metamagic Rager and Urban Rager. Because of Metamagic Rager in particular, I'm going with a Human, putting Favored Class Bonus into Extra Bloodrage rounds across the board. I only have up to ECL 4 typed out, because that's when a Bloodrager first gets their spells and well...they don't get many.

So here's the nitty gritty.

So that's my first level load out and reasoning why. There are gaps I'd like advice filling, and of course recommended adjustments I'm willing to take under advisement (may not ACTUALLY change certain things though)

It gets more vague and ill-defined as we go. Advice welcome.

Open to suggestions moving forward as well.

Note that as an Urban Bloodrager with the Arcane Bloodline, I'll be able to claim at least two spells from the magus or bard lists before 12th, barring using UMD on various devices and Wondrous Items to poach even more spells from other classes.

I HAD thought I could get a Familiar or Arcane Bond, and a Wizard spell too, but it was a misunderstanding caused by a link error on Archives of Nethys - looking at Bloodline Mutations shifts classes from Bloodrager to Sorcerer, and the bloodline for sorcerers has different effects.

For spell choices, I was considering Bladed Dash at 7 to burn bloodrage rounds on a Quicken and make a psuedo-pounce attack, or close the gap between myself and a priority target with a move->cast combo. And at 11, use it with Greater Bloodrage to save rounds for other stuff. Not the best use, buffs probably better, but I think it feels good for the character.

Not sure what else would be appropriate, especially if I can get more spells known.

No one has linked THIS ?

Oh that is just magnificent lol.

Although it's a suboptimal use of both the mech and your class, I could see a barb doing this and pretending to be kamina.

Upshot is, if the dm is cool with a raging mech, you can go beyond the impossible and pierce the heavens with your spiral (rage) powers.

Can I just say that I love how xenogears is still relevant today? Because I do. Monk and Brawler Mechs all day.

In fact I'd say the unimpressive scaling works to its advantage in that regard. Its SAFER to fight giant monsters and enemy mechs with your own, because the increased damage is dangerous to people on-foot who would get dunked on by one or two hits, but a couple rounds focused fire can still bring them down.

If you arent dumping charisma you can pick up Neried's Grace

I am also very much down for a hulk jump into meteor smash rage power. That would be AWESOME.

Never really understood why swords ended up the penis envy weapon though. You would think it would be spears. Or clubs. Spear of Impaling, +4 Natural Greatclub of Intimidating Prowess, other assorted jokes. You get the picture. But it did, and we deal with it. Not a big deal as long as enemies die and allies don't.

Even if it looks dumb, it's cool to picture a guy (or girl, equal opprtunity) suplexing an enemy four times your size, hulking its manufactured weapon up off the ground or straight up ripping out a natural weapon like a tooth or claw, and stabbing the thing to death with it.

All while being REALLY ANGRY in the case of Barbs. Monks and Fighters probably less so.

I think ultimately the problem with making certain builds work from what I've been looking up comes down to a few key issues.

1) lack of feats across the board. Even though some martials get bonus feats or feat-like abilities or even spells up to the lower levels (read the not-game breaking ones like found in level 7-9)

2) punishing feat taxes. It's kind of related to issue 1, but its kind of ridiculous in it's own right how much garbage you have to take in order to qualify for something actually useful. It effectively punishes trying to do something creative.

3) fiddly semantic nonsense like VS constantly is dealing with preventing compatibility between movement feats and attack feats. Again, punishes trying to be more creative than "I move 5 feet (or Pounce) and Full Attack" or "I cast [insert highest DC save-or-suck available at the time]"

To its credit, 2e fixed some of this. And it made it much easier to have diverse stats, which makes it easier to have the skills to contribute meaningfully even when NOT in combat. But some issues remain, and theres also just less raw content compared to 1e for now, so most tables in my area got bored and went back to running 1e.

On the subject of inappropriately sized weapons, even though YOUR handedness to use them changes, is the WEAPON'S handedness still technically unchanged?

Like, a Medium creature wants to use a Large Falchion, that's a one-handed weapon for a Large creature, but they need to use it in one hand. Does it remain one-handed for the purposes of things like Effortless Laces and a Magus's Spell Combat? Or they want to use a Small Lance, which is a two-handed weapon for a Small creature but they can use it with one, leaving their other hand free to use a shield or another weapon. Is it still Two-Handed for Power Attacks and effects that interact specifically with Two-Handed Weapons? Can they still Reach with it?

Ikorus wrote:

I was wondering how many magic item slots I would potentially be able to fill mechanically without sacrificing aesthetics. I'm going for a sort of Conan the Barbarian look, maybe with some Woad paint.

Ask the GM to use Automatic Bonus Progression. It's something I suggest anyway, as the system vastly improves the game in my opinion, but for you, it also serves the additional purpose of allowing a fully functional character without worrying about a cloak or something.

Ikorus wrote:

The main slots I think will prove difficult are the Head, Body and Chest slots, though maybe an open Robe on the body would still be fine.

You don't need items in those slots anyway - most characters don't fill these slots until high-ish levels.

Way harder is not wearing armor! Normally, I'd suggest playing a Monk instead, as it probably matches the desired aesthetic more than a Barbarian...

Ikorus wrote:

Sticking with the Conan theme, is the Classic or Unchained Barbarian better?

Depends on the desired level of optimization, or possible of certain abilities you might want.

cBarb:
+ Allows Rage cycling
+ Rage boosts strength checks and related ability scores (breakiing doors, swimming, etc.), and Fort
+ Can pick up rage powers to fly (Greater Elemental Blood (Air) or Dragon Totem Wings)
+ Reckless Abandon and Come and Get Me don't need an action to activate and can coexist
+ Superstition works against supernatural effects
- Superstition doesn't stack with the will bonus from Rage
- Reckless Abandon lowers your AC
- When you drop below 0 HP, you fall unconscious, Rage ends, and the loss of HP (from the loss of Con) can kill you

unBarb:
+ Temp HP actually decrease the damage taken that needs to be healed
+ Accurate Stance doesn't have an AC penalty
+ Superstition stacks with the will bonus from Rage
- Superstition doesn't work against supernatural...

Eh, It's fine. Theres always that stigma around massive weapons. You get used to it. If you ask me, it's only fair that physics take a backseat to the rule of cool for martials every bit as much as it has for casters for the last 30 years.

I'm actually working on a few possible builds now, been getting a lot of ideas only some of which are so wildly impractical I don't know how to make them not crap like the Flying Blade TWF set.

For an example of something that might actually WORK, one build moves away from a pure Barbarian and goes Primalist Urban Bloodrager (Arcane). He gets to pull spells off the Magus list and cast them instantly as a free action on entering rage. Bladed Dash as a free action means you still get to make your full attack action even though you moved way more than 5 feet. Its basically a pseudo-pounce. Primalist swaps out the occasional dud bloodline power for more useful rage powers. The downside is, it's not nearly as durable as an I.R. Urban Barbarian, and is MAD as all holy hell since it wants Barbarian Stats plus good charisma at LEAST to get some spells per day if not also have DCs that aren't in the complete s$~$ range.

Another thing im experiencing difficulty with is a Vital Strike Barbarian. Uses a Large Bastard Sword (don't need to be a Titan Mauler) to frontload damage at the highest accuracy bonus and overcome resistances. It DOES do that, but in my research VS doesnt work with like ANY maneuvers. You can't charge even with pounce, you can't spring, you can't whirlwind, you cant cleave. About the only thing you can do is lunge and sunder, but even that's kind of iffy by RAW. Which is a problem since you can't actually GET to your enemy in order to smack them.

Trying to dual wield flying blades competently is going to be...hard.

-8/-8 to-hit possibly with 2 more off hand attacks at -13 and -18 respectively. I kinda like the idea of how ludicrously spammy that is, especially as reach weapons with tools like lunge, pounce, sunder (and spell sunder), and 5-foot steps available but those penalties are UGLY.

Any thoughts beyond "dont do it" to make it hit at least some of the time?

I just had the best idea ever. I mean it would be ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE mechanically, but it would be awesome.

This is entirely thanks to @temperans reminding me of jotungrip, and more poking around with weapons. Theres some really cool stuff there, especially the exotics. Less practical than the closest martial or simple equivalent, but still cool.

Two Weapon Fighting. Jotungrip. FLYING. BLADES. Big-ass swords attached to 10-foot chains! It's basically God of War! Hell, Kratos even Rages. Like, all the time. And kills various giant monsters.

...Guys, I think Kratos is a Titan Mauler.

(Now works on two separate builds)

Titan Mauler Jotunheim ability only works for weapons of your size. To wield a weapon 1 size larger 2-handed you need Titan Fighter. Large Bastard Sword works because it goes from 1-handed medium weapon to 2-handed large weapon.

Aka, Titan Mauler lets you use a medium sized Greatsword 1-handed. While a Titan Fighter would let you use a large sized greatsword 2-handed.

3rd level Titan Mauler does the same thing as the Titan Fighter does at 1st, but takes a longer time to scale. Makes Fighter a better dip if you dont really plan on BEING a barbarian for realsies-like.

It does also do that thing if you wanted to do TWF with big weapons (badass), starting from 2nd level. Just sub out the VS tree for the TWF tree. But VS is hilarious with Raging Finish and the Cord of Stubborn Resolve linked earlier.

So I found that the "Iconic Barbarian" Amiri uses a Large Bastard Sword Two Handed (via Exotic Weapons Proficiency).

I'm wondering if a Titan Mauler can take that a step beyond since it would fit within the scaling handedness rules, or if the specification of only working on 2-handed weapons "meant for" creatures ONE size category higher supersedes that.

My guess is it probably doesnt work, sadly. If instead of that it allowed you to wield weapons "as if THE BARBARIAN was one size larger than their actual size", it might be less iffy. At least they can probably skip out on EWP, but saving one Feat vs Invulnerable Rager (and optionally Urban Barbarian) probably not worth it.

Besides, a Large Bastard Sword is damn near as big as the character using it. Trying to carry something even bigger around may not even fit indoors!

Now I need to do a little mechanics math but it looks like a large greatsword is marginally better than a large bastard sword while making more severe trades for it (class features vs a feat)

I made a new thread since this isnt really specifically to do with the barbarian I'm working on. It's just something I thought of while browsing the SRD

For a Human character that wanted to use say, an Elven Curveblade or a Dwarven Longhammer, or a Flickmace, is it too cheesy to use your 1st level Bonus Feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency, or even trade it away for Adoptive Parentage to get your weapon and also an extra Language?

But at the same time it seems unlikely to randomly come across the weapon you want later on and then start practicing with it (taking the feat next available level).

Either way it's probably easiest for a fighter. A lot of other weapon-using classes strike me as a bit feat starved. I was just thinking that there are potentially some really nice options available while looking at the weapons tables. Curveblade might be nice for a Magus looking to score spell crits for example, or a tanking paladin/fighter/cleric or w/e could benefit from the Flickmace's reaching trips to open enemies to other allies wrecking them. A longhammer would be a really nice big beatstick if you have options for enemies who manage to live long enough to get inside your range (like natural weapon attacks)

Nice belt. Take a little damage when rage ends, but hp should be high enough it doesnt matter. Could be handy for raging finish Does it come in better versions with higher bonuses and/or more stats I can work on upgrading toward over time?

If that's as far as it goes, seems like a hard sell compared to Physical Perfection (or just the Str/Con one) and dipping Lame Oracle of Metal (or Winds if using a mount to make up for speed losses with mounted charges - drastically improved vision range for pre-emptive strikes)

Bandolier I guess is meant for the Hurler archetype?

Sticking with the Conan theme, is the Classic or Unchained Barbarian better? And how viable is Titan Mauler?

Still browsing, but I'm considering using it despite the speed loss since it looks good for fighting really dangerous monsters, along with Rage Powers like the one that treats you as if Enlarge Person'd while Raging, and anti-magic stuff like the magic sundering and Witch Hunter so that I can be actually useful helping the casters fight giant magical creatures like dragons and stuff. The thing is, other archetypes (I remember Invulnerable Rager being popular) might actually be better. Big weapons have big penalties until the late levels, so full attacking would have a pretty unfortunate chance of missing a couple of times.

And would it be a good idea to dip a level of Oracle for fatigue/exhaustion immunity and access to divine wands without a skill check? If so, how early - second level? Third? Going all the way down to a speed of 20 as opposed to 40 (no lame curse, barbarian archetype that keeps Fast Movement) might hurt too much to be worth it.

Thanks for the hot tips and the nifty story kailas.

I'll work on a build and see if yall have any advice about it. Might take a couple hours to a couple of days though, need to do a bunch of research, particularly on rage powers and archetypes.

Same thread, or new one?

Hey everyone. Been a while, hasn't it?

I don't tend to diversify much beyond my usual paladins and monks, so I'd like to borrow a bit of your collective expertise for this.

Inspired by Kingmaker's Staglord's Armor, I was thinking my next character (for tabletop play) might be my first Barbarian. I was wondering how many magic item slots I would potentially be able to fill mechanically without sacrificing aesthetics. I'm going for a sort of Conan the Barbarian look, maybe with some Woad paint.

The main slots I think will prove difficult are the Head, Body and Chest slots, though maybe an open Robe on the body would still be fine.

Opinions on alchemy seem pretty split as a solid generalist vs just lousy at everything. Interesting, if slightly concerning.

Rogue was always a favorite of mine from back in the day of actual dnd (before i decided i liked pathfinder better), and unchained did some really neat things for making their skill points really DO something. Are you suggesting rogue base+caster progression or caster base+rogue progression? Also I don't know about you guys, but rogues always seem to be a source of friction at my own tables or those nearby. Especially when lawful good anyone is involved (contrary to popular beleif its not just paladins!) Any ideas to overcome that?

As for the other popular option, druids, how do you feel about the blanket ban on metals? Seems concerning to me (for melee) unless you want to go with unarmed natural weapons monk build.

Oh and just to confirm what most have already assumed: the conceit of the thread accepts by default that the character wont be the best at anything as long as they can choose to be good ENOUGH at anything. It is NOT required to be able to fill all roles all the time, though that is a pleasant bonus. The idea is to start off being able to do anything, and then just focus on filling whatever gap the party happens to have.

What, in your opinion, is the clase or multiclass best able to flex over time into any party role?

It doesnt need to do everything from level 1, just be able to be aimed in different directions and fill a specified job effectively based on party composition.

If I were to guess, I would assume a cleric, probably war rather than cloistered for the superior martial proficiencies. Seems like it would have acceptable early flex and then just pick a different multiclass depending on what's needed, but you guys would know better than me.

I want to make up a nice "just in case" 1st level template I can take down different paths down the line so have something to use when I don't have much or any advance information.

Still getting the hang of 2e but how about this;

What if it was an item bonus in and of itself, that was explicitly called put as stacking with any other item bonuses (from mutagens)? Then it wouldn't conflict with mutagens that didn't have an item bonus to increase, AND would still work to "increase" the existing item bonus from the mutagens that have them.

Specific rules beat general rules every time, after all.

Thank you, that's a different description from the one i saw, but an altogether more useful one.

Im particularly amused that the training version is basically a kendama.

Unrelated to monks (its nit on the monk weapon list as far as i see), but what kind of weapon IS a flickmace? I keep seeing how good it is, and when I looked it up it apparently becomes a reach trip weapon when not crushing heads up close.

So does that make it some kind of flail or net-thing or something? The srd table just lists it as "exotic", which doesnt actually mean much since iirc even a basic hand and a half bastard sword is "exotic".

This thread is silly and amazing and i love it. Good way to get to point b in a hurry.

Oh, cant use it forc1st level feats from the multiclass eh? Yeah that does prevent the shenanigans i had in mind. Oh well, such is life.

The setting could be cool, kind of an arab-persian thing. Might be neat to roleplay as a jalmeran in wider golarion, or an outsider in jalmeray. I'll have to talk to the dm about that. Already brainstorming names lol. Courtesy of pop culture i have a ton of male names like aladdin, sinbad, xerxes, and so on, but not much for females (ive been known to play characters of either gender and any age group) so ill need to do some research.

Thank you for pointing it out. Im falling more and more in love with the silly things a monk can potentially be, and even if i dont make a student of perfection (which reads almost as monk+, or like a prestige class lol) its still got neat flavor implications id like to explore.

Shame it doesnt look to allow straight up djinni summons though. Maybe another jalmeran class. Are there more of these?

Trying to boost two mental stats to 14 out the gate might be a little tough and probably unnecessary. While your class DCs do key of Wisdom, not many monk powers have a save associated so you can probably do fine with a 12 in those stats. Don't forget you get 4 ability boosts at 5, one of which could easily bring a 12 charisma to 14 if you wanted to multiclass to bard or sorcerer a little later. You probably won't / shouldn't be focusing on attack spells anyway so you won't need a maxed spell attack role.

If you like the idea of an elemental themed monk, be sure to check out the Student of Perfection in the Lost Omens World Guide.

A theoretical build might look like this (note, I've not seen a build like this in play yet so this is speculation on my part):

** spoiler omitted **

Student of perfection seems pretty neat, and its only a couple of feats. With all the extra class feats a human can potentially get, would it be stretching too thin to try and do that AND pick up a casting class for a familiar to gain an extra focus point and some good cantrips/1st-6th spells? Napkin math says that would be a max of 5, or a 25% focus increase from only being a student of perfection monk.

Is there anywhere i can get more information on these houses of perfection though? The abilities seem like fun wuxia film nonsense, which is awesome, but theres usually philosophical baggage a character needs to be able to mesh with.

Sorry to interrupt, but ive been following this for about a day and I just looked at the arcane evolution feat. From what i gather, it essentially turns your sorcerer (or sorcerer dedicated other class) into a wizard - spellbook, prepared spells, and so on.

But if you want to do that, why would you not just be a wizard (or wizard dedicated other class)? Is it because you value Cha > Int for a specific character reason, or is there more to it?

Since right now im mostly experimenting with HOW to build characters, and since the flavor choices worked out surprisingly well if still kind of terrible, i decided to go ahead and try to generate a second monk, who is better at monk-ing and still reserves the right to spec into bard or sorcerer if they so choose, but who if portrayed accurately to stats, background, and feats is a VERY different person despite being the same race and class.

How did i do, do you think?

Ancestry: Human, Versatile (Bonus 1st level General Feat - Toughness 1 [+1 HP per level], Voluntary Flaw -2 Str, Voluntary Flaw -2 Int, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, Bonus +2 Con)

Background: Martial Disciple (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, Trained in Athletics and Warfare Lore, Quick Jump 1 Bonus Skill Feat [High Jump and Long Jump actions can be done as single actions that don't take a 10 foot stride beforehand])

Class: Monk (+2 Dex, Trained in Perception, Monk Class Features, 4+(-1)[Int] Skills)

1st Level Ability Bonuses: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Cha

Final Ability Scores:

HP - 21
Str - 8
Dex - 18
Con - 14
Int - 8
Wis - 14
Cha - 14

1st Level Ancestry Feat: Natural Ambition (Bonus 1st Level Class Feat [Monk]: Ki Strike)

Final Trained Skills: Athletics, Warfare Lore, Perception, Acrobatics, Medicine, Survival.

If future training includes barding, follow the Enigma Muse (self perfection seems fitting for a monk, and alsontrue strike is useful)

If future training includes sorcery, unlock one of the Elemental Bloodlines (again, seems appropriate given the elemental strike ki power, something else might be better though, but i have heard primal spells are good. Leaning fire, for no specific reasons.)

Yeah con and wis, my bad XD

And i somehow missed that it wasn't its own phase for voluntary flaws, but shuffling that around isnt hard. Might make it impossible to go 18s and 12s though.

Since bad wis hurts ki powers, and spellcasting is so powerful, and since this build (16s and 14s) would have passable cha and good dex, what do you think of taking Bard dedication feats with perform (dance) for occult magic, or perhaps sorcerer dedication feats for divine, arcane or primal magic? Wizard also an option because int = cha, but material components are a hassle. Spontaneous is easier for a primary martial.