Can you take 10 on disguise?

[Saldiven]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

The disguise skill is not just about changing your appearance, but about tricking someone into believing you are someone your are not. If you just want to look good, just role play that. Disguise is about looking as something you aren't.

Everything in the Disguise skill section discusses appearance, and nothing discusses behavior.

"You are skilled at changing your appearance."

"The effectiveness of your disguise depends on how much you're changing your appearance."

"Disguise can be used to make yourself appear like a creature that is one size category larger or smaller than your actual size."

"If you are impersonating a particular individual, those who know what that person looks like get a bonus on their Perception checks according to the table below."

"An individual makes a Perception check to see through your disguise immediately upon meeting you and again every hour thereafter."

Disguise is 100% about appearance. If you also want to act like a specific person (the king, high priest, etc.) or a specific occupation (guard, maid, etc.), then you need Bluff.

Seriously, regardless of whether or not a player should be allowed to take 20 on a Disguise check, the idea that Disguise includes behavior and impersonation just isn't supported by the rules for the skill. A group can always choose to play it that way, but there's nothing in the CRB that instructs us to do so.

[fretgod99]

Appearance does not necessarily mean "what one looks like". It can in its most superficial sense. But it can and often is meant to be less sense specific. Sort of like when people say, "I see what you mean." It just as easily can be understood to mean the overall impression you give to others (often and largely based on outward, visual appearance, but not exclusively so).

Regardless, the rules literally use the word "If you are impersonating a particular individual", so it's kind of hard to argue that Disguise doesn't include impersonation.

Besides, one's appearance includes how one carries themselves, among other things (including vernacular, accent, affect, etc.). That screams acting. Bluff is used to get someone to believe what you're saying is true. What skill do you use to get someone to believe that you're somebody else? What if you're not really lying about anything, just responding with typical pleasantries while posing as some business person to get access to the Prince? Perhaps you're "lying" when trying to mimic the limp or gait of whoever it is you're standing in for. I suppose that's not unreasonable. But it's also not unreasonable to recognize that this is also rolled up into one's appearance. Are you required to have Perform (Act) or Profession (Actor) ranks to pull of that sort of thing? How does one impersonate?

More importantly, what gets opposed by what then? Is the convincingness of your limp opposed by a Sense Motive check or a Perception check? Do people Perceive when your accent slips, or do they Sense it?

It's not as if this is clearly laid out in the rules. So it shouldn't be all that surprising that some people want to streamline this sort of thing and wrap it all up into Disguise. It's also not surprising that people might want to more accurately reflect this scenario and have a multitude of skills and checks cover everything.

[graystone]

fretgod99: impersonating is based 100% off what the person looks like as can be seen from the chart on how well a person knows how you LOOK [not your "vernacular, accent, affect, etc." This means that someone that stands next to the person daily but has never talked to him has a better chance to see through the disguise than someone that they talk to every week at the bar as it's based only on the visual.

In the case of the impersonating section of disguise it's purely looking like a "particular individual".

Now look at Sound Mimicry: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/universalMonsterRules.html#sound-mimicry

What does "perfectly imitates certain sounds or even specific voices" do? Gets "a +8 racial bonus on its Bluff check to mimic sounds (including accents and speech patterns, if a voice mimic).

So imitating accents and speech patterns is bluff and not disguise.

Look at Commanding Presence (Ex): Figuring out "body language and tone of voice" is a sense motive DC. You use perception against disguise.

All that said, some of the newer stuff does include some contradictory information on this. For instance the Infiltrator Archetype's Voice Mimicry and Vocal Alteration spell both give bonuses to disguise. Infiltrator calls out that it's a "special Disguise check" so it could just be a special ability granting an ability to use a skill in a way you normally can't do sort of like Perceptive Tracking (Ex) allowing an investigator can use Perception instead of Survival for tracking.

Vocal Alteration, who knows. It could be a mistake [the creator thought like you that disguise covers sound], an exception [like Perceptive Tracking] or a deliberate shift in thinking to allow sound based disguises. I'd personally need something explicit to allow audio disguises.

[Snowlilly]

Rogar Valertis wrote:

Disguise is not only about putting masks, false beards etc on. It's also about acting and try to make yourself pass for someone else. So depending on how risky those activities may be I think a GM should reserve the right to allow or deny take 10 (are you trying to pass youself as some peasant great great uncle? No worries, take 10. Do you want to try decieving that ancient red wyrm posing as one of his minions you previously dispatched? No taking 10, and if you fail you are in for a world of pain).

That would be Bluff or Perform: Acting, and only if there was significant interaction with other person.