Ninja solo combatant, Thoughts?


Advice


Ok so I'm working on a level 9 character for a game I'm in and I would really like some constructive opinions on the idea.

So I'm planning on going Brawler 1/ Ninja(Scout) 8 with the race being Dhampir(with Dayborn). The Stats as rolled with
racial and level bonuses are as such(in case you are wondering about stat placement, they are set as rolled. I can't
shuffle them):

Str:16
Dex:18(20w/Belt of Weasel)
Con:14
Int:13
Wis:15
Cha:14

Init: +11 AC: 21(vs AOP 27) FF:15 Touch: 16

Traits: Reactionary, and Indomitable Faith

Feats:
1)Improved Unarmed Strike(B), Combat Reflexes
2)Combat Trick: Improved Initiative
3)Panther Style
4)Combat Trick: Dodge
5)Panther Claw
6)Combat Trick: Weapon Finesse
7)Panther Parry
8)Vanishing Trick
9)Mobility

The idea should be pretty obvious, use the Scouts ability to get sneak attack damage when they move at least 10ft
in a round and use the Panther Style feats to maximize the number of attacks per round that will benefit from
Sneak Attack. This would mean you wouldn't need to flank or feint to get guaranteed Sneak Attack damage.

For equipment:
Boots of Striding and Springing, Belt of the Weasel, Amulet of Mighty Fists +1, Quick Runners Shirt, Lenses of
Detection, Claws of the Ice Bear/Poisoner's Gloves,Stalker's Mask, Headband of Cha or Wis +2/Headband of Ki Focus,
Pauldrons of the Serpent, Burglar's Bracers

Armor and Weapons:
+1 Minor Shadow Mithral Chain Shirt or Brawling, Adamantine Cestus, and s%$~tons of Shuriken.

Unarmed: +15/+10 Dmg: 1d6+6+4D6 Sneak


Using panther style wont make your attacks of opportunity sneak attacks. Both the abilities are written to apply either to the attack immediately after a charge or to the first attack after moving 10ft.

So your premise there doesn't work.


SeDevri wrote:

Ok so I'm working on a level 9 character for a game I'm in and I would really like some constructive opinions on the idea.

So I'm planning on going Brawler 1/ Ninja(Scout) 8 with the race being Dhampir(with Dayborn). The Stats as rolled with
racial and level bonuses are as such(in case you are wondering about stat placement, they are set as rolled. I can't
shuffle them):

Str:16
Dex:18(20w/Belt of Weasel)
Con:14
Int:13
Wis:15
Cha:14

Init: +11 AC: 21(vs AOP 27) FF:15 Touch: 16

Traits: Reactionary, and Indomitable Faith

Feats:
1)Improved Unarmed Strike(B), Combat Reflexes
2)Combat Trick: Improved Initiative
3)Panther Style
4)Combat Trick: Dodge
5)Panther Claw
6)Combat Trick: Weapon Finesse
7)Panther Parry
8)Vanishing Trick
9)Mobility

The idea should be pretty obvious, use the Scouts ability to get sneak attack damage when they move at least 10ft
in a round and use the Panther Style feats to maximize the number of attacks per round that will benefit from
Sneak Attack. This would mean you wouldn't need to flank or feint to get guaranteed Sneak Attack damage.

For equipment:
Boots of Striding and Springing, Belt of the Weasel, Amulet of Mighty Fists +1, Quick Runners Shirt, Lenses of
Detection, Claws of the Ice Bear/Poisoner's Gloves,Stalker's Mask, Headband of Cha or Wis +2/Headband of Ki Focus,
Pauldrons of the Serpent, Burglar's Bracers

Armor and Weapons:
+1 Minor Shadow Mithral Chain Shirt or Brawling, Adamantine Cestus, and s#@!tons of Shuriken.

Unarmed: +15/+10 Dmg: 1d6+6+4D6 Sneak

Should also be noted that the Ninja's combat trick can only be taken once.

"Unless otherwise noted, a ninja cannot select an individual ninja trick more than once."

For example "rogue talent" specifically says it can be taken more than once.

Also panther style says
" when an opponent makes an attack of opportunity against you for moving through a threatened square"

So unless your opponent has combat reflexes and high dex, you would get 1 attack in.

Also, does your GM approve of you dipping into a rogue archetype for ninja? I hear that as long it replaces certain features its fine, but technically speaking Ninja can not be combined with the rogue class because they Ninja is just a Different version of Rogue, so distinct that they are their own class.


You might check out the feat circling mongoose. Of course, I'm not sure if it works with Panther Style, most likely GM discretion. I'd also go with Unchained Rogue instead, if you've got the option to do so.


Fernn wrote:
Also, does your GM approve of you dipping into a rogue archetype for ninja? I hear that as long it replaces certain features its fine, but technically speaking Ninja can not be combined with the rogue class because they Ninja is just a Different version of Rogue, so distinct that they are their own class.

Incorrect. Alternate classes ARE a part of their original class; basically a super-archetype.

CRB/Paladin wrote:
The antipaladin is an alternate class. Making use of and altering numerous facets of the paladin core class, this villainous warrior can't truly be considered a new character class by its own right. By the changes made here, though, the details and tones of the paladin class are shifted in a completely opposite direction and captures an entirely different fantasy theme, without needlessly designing an entire new class.

And, more succinctly:

ACG/Designing Classes wrote:
Alternate Classes: Sometimes an archetype exchanges so many class features that it almost becomes a new class itself. In such cases, the class might warrant a representation of all of the class features, even those that it shares with its base class. While still technically an archetype, characters who play this class have all the tools they need to advance their character in one convenient location. The antipaladin, ninja, and samurai are all examples of an alternate class.

An Alternate Class is just an archetype that is so extensive that list all class features rather than just those that were swapped for the sake of convenience; so you have all your leveling resources in one spot. But, otherwise, a Ninja is just a big, fancy archetype for a Rogue.


Kazaan wrote:
Fernn wrote:
Also, does your GM approve of you dipping into a rogue archetype for ninja? I hear that as long it replaces certain features its fine, but technically speaking Ninja can not be combined with the rogue class because they Ninja is just a Different version of Rogue, so distinct that they are their own class.

Incorrect. Alternate classes ARE a part of their original class; basically a super-archetype.

CRB/Paladin wrote:
The antipaladin is an alternate class. Making use of and altering numerous facets of the paladin core class, this villainous warrior can't truly be considered a new character class by its own right. By the changes made here, though, the details and tones of the paladin class are shifted in a completely opposite direction and captures an entirely different fantasy theme, without needlessly designing an entire new class.

And, more succinctly:

ACG/Designing Classes wrote:
Alternate Classes: Sometimes an archetype exchanges so many class features that it almost becomes a new class itself. In such cases, the class might warrant a representation of all of the class features, even those that it shares with its base class. While still technically an archetype, characters who play this class have all the tools they need to advance their character in one convenient location. The antipaladin, ninja, and samurai are all examples of an alternate class.
An Alternate Class is just an archetype that is so extensive that list all class features rather than just those that were swapped for the sake of convenience; so you have all your leveling resources in one spot. But, otherwise, a Ninja is just a big, fancy archetype for a Rogue.

Oh sorry, the fact that anti paladins and the samurai had their own archetype(s) confused me because that implies that archetypes have their own sub archetypes with them.

So an antipaladin that is a knight of the sepulcher is in fact:

A Paladin, with the Anti Paladin Archetype, whose Anti Paladin Archetype has the Knight of the Sepulcher Archetype.

Also, are you saying that once you become a Ninja Archetype Rogue, that some favored class bonuses just stop working?


When the ninja came out, it was considered a rogue with a lot of archetype changes that took less space by listing as a class. It could not multiclass with a normal rogue since you cannot multiclass with the same class.

However, when Unchained came out with the Unchained Rogue (URogue), things changed. PFS declared there could not be an unchained ninja, despite the mechanical ability to determine how the ninja would be as an archetype that could then be applied to the URogue. Then some Pazio types said things that led some to think Alternate classes were not Archetypes despite APG saying so. This leads to the conundrum:

  • If they are an archetype, then you can make a UNinja.
  • If they are not an archetype, then you can make a Ninja/Rogue.

Seems they don't want either, but they have not yet figured out how to prevent both at the same time.

As of now, the status is unclear. [At least to me.]

/cevah


Fernn wrote:

Oh sorry, the fact that anti paladins and the samurai had their own archetype(s) confused me because that implies that archetypes have their own sub archetypes with them.

So an antipaladin that is a knight of the sepulcher is in fact:

A Paladin, with the Anti Paladin Archetype, whose Anti Paladin Archetype has the Knight of the Sepulcher Archetype.

Also, are you saying that once you become a Ninja Archetype Rogue, that some favored class bonuses just stop working?

Yes, there are "archetype archetypes" when it comes to alternate classes, again, for the sake of convenience. These could be considered a completely separate alternate class archetype that is being applied to the base class; KotS applied to Paladin instead of Anti-Paladin, for example. But since the changes to the alternate class itself are on par with the changes of a simple archetype to the base class, they are presented in the rules as an archetype of the alternate class.

Regarding favored class bonuses, the only ones that technically wouldn't work are the rogue talent ones and those can easily be understood to be "shifted" to ninja talents since the alternate class archetype is shifting the whole ability "rogue talents" to "ninja talents" and it is within reason to presume that this shift covers alternate racial favored class bonuses as well.

@Cevah:
Here are the swaps being made when applying URogue, as an archetype, to Rogue:
Lvl 1: gain Finesse Training (trade out nothing)
lvl 3: gain finesse training (trade out nothing), trade Trap Sense for Danger Sense (but still counts as Trap Sense for archetypes)
lvl 4: gain Debilitating Injury (trade nothing)
lvl 5: gain Rogue's Edge (trade nothing)

So, as I see it, the URogue, functionally, doesn't trade out any original abilities except for Danger Sense which, explicitly, counts as if it were Trap Sense for archetypes that trade out Trap Sense. All other URogue abilities are gained with no trade. That means that any Rogue archetype, including Ninja, would work with URogue. But, as always, PFS is "special" and chooses to selectively ignore rules that it doesn't want to deal with; ie. restricting ARG racial feats and racial archetypes to that particular race, regardless of half-breed, racial heritage, etc otherwise making them available.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Ninja solo combatant, Thoughts? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice