What is the point of the "harmless" modifier in spells?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I know this has been brought up before, but it seems it has never been answered satisfyingly.

In the description of a spell, under saving throw and spell resistance, the spell can have the modifier "(harmless)" added. But it seems there is no point to this modifier.

1) For saving throws we get this description for the modifier:

Core Rulebook wrote:
(harmless): The spell is usually beneficial, not harmful, but a targeted creature can attempt a saving throw if it desires.

OK, so if I get targeted by a harmless spell, I somehow know this, and can elect not to attempt a saving throw. But then there is this, just four paragraphs down from that rule:

Core Rulebook wrote:
Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forgo a saving throw and willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.

This means I can always elect to not attempt a saving throw. In effect, the harmless modifier does nothing.

2) For Spell resistance we get:

Core Rulebook wrote:
The terms “object” and “harmless” mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by such spells without forcing the caster to make a caster level check.

OK. So in order for a creature with spell resistance to be affected by a harmless spell, they must first lower their resistance on their own turn... just as they would have to do with any other spell. So once, again, the harmless modifier does nothing.

So, what is the point?

Besides, I'm wondering, what exactly is meant by this "special resistance to magic" referred to in the section about voluntarily failing a saving throw? Energy resistance perhaps? Or, maybe... spell resistance? But what does that have to do with saving throws? I'm confused here.


Zaister wrote:
so if I get targeted by a harmless spell, I somehow know this

If that's the case, isn't that enough to justify the 'harmless' modifier?

Really, it doesn't need any mechanical effect; it's mainly to make it clearer for players what's a buff and what's an attack.

Dark Archive

A harmless spell (such as Bulls Strength, as a hypothetical example) usually doesn't have a saving through. But you can chose to make one to resist it anyway. Maybe the buff happy wizard just unthinkingly cast a spell to make you grow to giant size but you're in a small narrow hallway. Normally you wouldn't mind the spell, but in this instance it's a severe handicap. You can chose to try resisting the spell.

On the other hand there's spells you might usually want to save against but for one reason or another you want to allow it to happen. For example your party needs to sneak into a well fortified location. Humanoids not working for the bad guy are killed on sight if they try to enter and are caught. But the bad guy for whatever reason lets foxes roam around in his complex freely. So the kitsune wizard in your party (with fox shape feat) comes up with the clever plan of you all sneak in... as foxes.

Now, the polymorph spell is likely to wear off too quickly. It does only last for 1 minute per level. However your ally knows Baleful Polymorph and True Form. You can willingly suppress your innate resistance to the harmful magic enough to automatically fail the fortitude save of Baleful Polymorph, then make the will save so you retain your mental capability (instead of effectively becoming a mindless animal).

Having spell resistance, as you noticed though, is a whole other ball of wax. You'd have to specifically lower it to be affected by any magic reliably, good or ill.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

There are also spells and effects out there that make it *harder* for spells with the 'harmless' tag to be cast on a person.

Sovereign Court

I suppose a Confused creature might not consider a [harmless] spell to be an attack against it (and therefore not trigger the hostility clause). Or if your friend is led astray by a Suggestion, he might be less likely to resist a [harmless] spell like Protection from Evil.


The harmless status can allow a spell to work on undead when it otherwise couldn't

Undead Type wrote:
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).

Much like spell descriptors, it isn't there because it has a function of its own; it is there to let you know that it interacts with other effects that explicitly call out that they interact with (Harmless) spells.


I think any spell that requires a saving throw would be considered an "attack" unless it's harmless, breaking invisibility or charm effects, even if the subject is technically willing

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