Creating a Strong Fighter Using Only the Core Rulebook (Kind of)

[Unstable Nucleus]

Hello everyone! I've been reading the forums for several months now, and only recently have I started posting. However, in my time here, I often see threads that talk about making an "optimized (insert class here)" and everyone offers very good ideas from a wide variety of resources.
But today I bring you a different challenge. A few friends and I are beginning to think of characters and ideas for our second home-made Pathfinder campaign. We're long time players of 3.5, and only recently (very recently) have we started making the change to Pathfinder. In this particular upcoming campaign, we will only have access to the Core Rulebook, and Ultimate Combat. (Ultimate Combat is only available because of the interest in the Gunslinger class)
So, I come seeking the advice of the more experienced Pathfinder players. I'm making a Fighter, mainly because I think they're substantially better in Pathfinder than they are in 3.5. However, with such limited materials, I wonder how to make an effective fighter that will stay relevant even into mid-level play.
I already know that I will be human, and I would like to specialize in the Axes weapon group. Are there any particularly strong combinations of feats and equipment, available almost solely in "Vanilla Pathfinder" that I should look into more closely? What do people find to be the most effective techniques and tactics that are easily employable? What should I expect as far as Damage Output per Round and AC?
Thanks in advance for any tips and replies!

[Secret Wizard]

Point buy? What are the stats?

[lemeres]

How about grabbing a nice Bardiche and going with a reach build? A nice reach weapon with 19-20/x2, and fits into the axe weapon group?

For your basic reach build using core only, I would grab power attack, combat reflexes, and lunge. That is a nice basic set- power attack for damage, combat reflexes for more AoOs, and lunge so you can attack first and not lose your AoO (since attacking first usually means that enemies are in 5' step range)

Besides that, you might want to consider a nice trip build to knock down enemies going through your threatened area.

[Dragonchess Player]

First, a disclaimer: Axes aren't the most mechanically "optimal" weapons. Starting around 7th-8th level (when Improved Critical and keen come into play), weapons other than the 18-20/x2, 20/x4, or 19-20/x3 ones start to lose ground in DPR.

That said, I'd recommend picking up an orc double axe and becoming a two-handed/two-weapon switch-hitter. Start with Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Power Attack (for using one end of the double axe as a two-handed weapon, when you need to charge or otherwise move and attack), and Two Weapon Fighting (for standing in one place). Carry some javelins (with amenta) for a ranged option (since you can hold the double axe in one hand while throwing with the other).

Look at the Cleave/Cleaving Finish feats (to gain extra attacks) as well as the Two Weapon Fighting chain as you advance. As a fighter, you will have the feats to pick up useful portions in both.

[GM 1990]

I would say human is a good start, the bonus feat and skill point per level means if you want you're already a d10+1HP per level class since you can put your favored into HP every level.

For Damage a round, two things I've seen in our game that have been relatively strong and both went for "first level" extra attack.

Archer build with composite strength bow and the Precise Shot, Point Blank, Rapid Shot feats (didn't have the STR bonus bow at 1st level, but its +4 now). Since you're very often in point blank (30') you're getting +1 H/D so the -2 to hit already only a -1. 2d level you can go Wpn focus and MWK and work on the STR Bow with $ available. You can build on the bow feat tree a while, Deadly Aim (same concept as power attack, -1 Hit to add +2 Damage and its doubled on crit) should be used almost every attack scenario; then work up Wpn Specialization, Greater, etc.

The other went Two-wpn Fighter out the gate, TWDefense, Power Attack. Donjon has a power-attack calculator and shows when the AC is too high to risk the -1 to hit for bonus damage, but a relatively easy rule is if you're fighting something "about right" for your level your best damage output is using Power Attack. 2d Level wpn focus and a set of MWK weapons and you're back to 0/0 on the TWF penalty. Since this one is front line, the AC is more of an issue. however, since 15Dex required for TWF, he's benefiting from dex bonus as well. Similar approach to the archer, build on the single weapon tree with specialization, Cleave; Dodge (AC will matter more on this build and Dodge bonus is one of the few that stack)

In any case, since you're getting a Feat per level, don't forget Improved Initiative (+4 INI so better chance to beat the Monster INI and then target its flat-footed AC), Toughness (+1HP/level) Iron Will and improved Iron will at some point because having lots of damage potential and HP when you fail a will save only makes it worse on your group.

Bludgeoning weapons are a little more handy with less things getting DR against them, than Axe, but unless you know you're going to fight a lot of skeletal templates, maybe not enough to bother with if your flavor feeling is for axes. Anything with Expanded Crit range is advisable though as if you're looking pure damage output, its all about building to the %s that'll achieve most hits and most damage when you do.

[Unstable Nucleus]

@Secret Wizard: We're using 20 point buy. I was thinking of Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14 (+2 human racial), Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 7. Though, I'm certainly up for suggestions.
I really like the idea of the Orc Double Axe; being able to combine it with Power Attack and 1.5X strength mod seems pretty strong. And a good way to keep up DPR when I have to move around.
I'd like to avoid a ranged build, mostly because the party may have 2 Gunslingers (a whole other topic) so our ranged combat is pretty strong already. I love the idea of a two-weapon fighting build, as suggested. I think it'd be really strong, and with the combination of shields as a second weapon, I could potentially maintain a decent AC at the same time.

[Unstable Nucleus]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

First, a disclaimer: Axes aren't the most mechanically "optimal" weapons. Starting around 7th-8th level (when Improved Critical and keen come into play), weapons other than the 18-20/x2, 20/x4, or 19-20/x3 ones start to lose ground in DPR.

What type of melee weapon category might you suggest?

[-Grijm-]

Unstable Nucleus wrote:

@Secret Wizard: We're using 20 point buy. I was thinking of Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14 (+2 human racial), Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 7. Though, I'm certainly up for suggestions.

I really like the idea of the Orc Double Axe; being able to combine it with Power Attack and 1.5X strength mod seems pretty strong. And a good way to keep up DPR when I have to move around.
I'd like to avoid a ranged build, mostly because the party may have 2 Gunslingers (a whole other topic) so our ranged combat is pretty strong already. I love the idea of a two-weapon fighting build, as suggested. I think it'd be really strong, and with the combination of shields as a second weapon, I could potentially maintain a decent AC at the same time.

For point buy, you want to use the racial +2 for your highest stat, you get more mileage out of that

If i go STR: 14 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 13 WIS: 13 CHA: 7 with the racial +2 on str, I have 3 leftover points http://webpages.charter.net/tedsarah/Pathfinder/utilities/pointBuyCalc.htm

[Secret Wizard]

Unstable Nucleus wrote:

@Secret Wizard: We're using 20 point buy. I was thinking of Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14 (+2 human racial), Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 7. Though, I'm certainly up for suggestions.

Ok, my submissions are varied:

- Unbreakable Fighter: Your job in the party is clearly to stand in the frontlines and take punishment. I think that using the Unbreakable archetype from UC, in combination with Crane Style (using a longsword and a buckler to have a free hand) could make you quite a force to reckon with in terms of AC, without the need of a large investment in DEX.

S16+2 D14 C14 I12 W12 CH7
Feats:
1. IUS, Dodge, (Diehard, Endurance)
2. Crane Style
3. Iron Will
4. Power Attack, +1 STR
5. Crane Wing
6. Step Up
7. Following Step
8. Combat Reflexes, +1 STR
9. Crane Riposte
10. Improved Critical
11. Critical Focus
12. Step Up and Strike, +1 STR

- Brawler Fighter: See the above build... but in reverse. What you'd do is make sure the enemy takes a ton of punishment and receives a lot of penalties for sharing space with you, and making sure you really stick to that a@$#&@&. Your free Bull Rushes from Shield Slam will help you position the enemy right where you want him, and Stepping Up prevents him from going anywhere without your explicit permission. You also grant a massive penalty to anyone who tries to cast while threatened by you. Getting Combat Reflexes at 13th wouldn't be a terrible idea.

S16 D15+2 C14 I10 W12 CH7
Feats:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash, Iron Will
2. Step Up
3. Following Step
4. Step Up and Strike, +1 DEX
5. Power Attack
6. Shield Slam
7. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8. Improved Bull Rush, +1 STR
9. Double Slice
10. Disruptive
11. Two-Weapon Rend
12. Spellbreaker, +1 STR

- Switch-Hitter: Sure, you have ranged classes, but that doesn't mean you should stick your face into combat like a douchebag. Here's another build based around combining spear hits in melee with throwing spear hits at range.

S16+2 D15 C14 I10 W12 CH7
Feats:
1. Power Attack, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2. Quick Draw
3. Iron Will
4. Rapid Shot, +1 DEX
5. Deadly Aim
6. Clustered Shots
7. Two-Handed Thrower
8. Critical Focus, +1 STR
9. Improved Critical
10. Weapon Focus (spear)
11. Greater Weapon Focus (spear)
12. Penetrating Strike (spear), +1 STR

[BigDTBone]

Nodachi Ned is 100% Core and UC.

At 12th level DPR vs CR12 is 155 on a full-attack (including boots of speed) taking 2 rounds to kill.
DPR vs CR16 is 116 on a full-attack (including boots of speed) taking 3 rounds to kill.

DPR doesn't account for possibility of sickening critical going off, but does include bleeding critical.

Nodachi Ned
Human fighter 12
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +13
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 27, touch 13, flat-footed 26 (+12 armor, +2 deflection, +1 dodge, +2 natural)
hp 148 (12d10+72)
Fort +16, Ref +8, Will +10 (+3 vs. fear)
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +3 nodachi +24[haste]/+24/+19/+14 (1d10+33/15-20)
Special Attacks weapon trainings (heavy blades +2, bows +1)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 26, Dex 10, Con 20, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +12; CMB +17; CMD 33
Feats Bleeding Critical, Critical Focus, Dazzling Display, Deadly Finish[UC], Greater Weapon Focus (nodachi), Greater Weapon Specialization (nodachi), Improved Critical (nodachi), Improved Initiative, Intimidating Prowess, Iron Will, Power Attack, Sickening Critical, Weapon Focus (nodachi), Weapon Specialization (nodachi)

Spoiler:

Skills Acrobatics -2 (+10 to jump), Intimidate +20, Perception +13, Swim +10
Languages Common
SQ armor training 3
Other Gear +3 full plate, +3 nodachi, amulet of natural armor +2, belt of physical might +4 (Str, Con), boots of speed, cloak of resistance +3, handy haversack, ring of protection +2
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bleeding Critical Critical Hits deal 2d6 bleed damage.
Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) Affected by haste
Critical Focus +4 to confirm critical hits.
Dazzling Display (Nodachi) Intimidate check to demoralize can affect those within 30' who see you.
Deadly Finish Foes you knock out must make a Fort save or die
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Sickening Critical Critical hit sickens target.
Weapon Training (Blades, Heavy) +2 (Ex) +2 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Heavy Blades
Weapon Training (Bows) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows

[Unstable Nucleus]

Secret Wizard wrote:

Unstable Nucleus wrote:

@Secret Wizard: We're using 20 point buy. I was thinking of Str 16, Dex 13, Con 14 (+2 human racial), Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 7. Though, I'm certainly up for suggestions.

Ok, my submissions are varied:

- Unbreakable Fighter: Your job in the party is clearly to stand in the frontlines and take punishment. I think that using the Unbreakable archetype from UC, in combination with Crane Style (using a longsword and a buckler to have a free hand) could make you quite a force to reckon with in terms of AC, without the need of a large investment in DEX.

S16+2 D14 C14 I12 W12 CH7
Feats:
1. IUS, Dodge, (Diehard, Endurance)
2. Crane Style
3. Iron Will
4. Power Attack, +1 STR
5. Crane Wing
6. Step Up
7. Following Step
8. Combat Reflexes, +1 STR
9. Crane Riposte
10. Improved Critical
11. Critical Focus
12. Step Up and Strike, +1 STR

This seems like a very fun idea to me. I somehow missed the Style Feats from Ultimate Combat. Looking through them though, these are awesome.

I certainly agree with Grijm, there are better ways to distribute the stats as well.
My only concern with your suggestion Secret Wizard, is that it seems strange to take IUS without trying to capitalize on it. Is using a weapon always better for a fighter, because they don't get the improved dice class to damage like a monk does?