Looks like we're getting to the part where we start putting our heads together for ideas. We should have, what? At least 9? One for each alignment? I'm certainly planning on making some of them. Do you have a preference? I can come up with ideas.
Well, my character's pretty focused on healing (I was going to head for Sarenrae if we kept the same pantheon), so...I guess the Neutral Good slot is where that one usually goes?
There are a number of items (particularly special materials) found on the SRD that come from a 3PP "Pure Steam Campaign Setting;" do you know anything about that? It sounds like something that might interest you, particularly for this campaign.
On the note of deities, you can allow each submitted character to generate their own deity (whether divine-oriented or not), and compile the list from those.
Also, I'll echo everyone else with the 25 point buy. It's like asking a kid if he wants two popsicles instead of one.
There are a number of items (particularly special materials) found on the SRD that come from a 3PP "Pure Steam Campaign Setting;" do you know anything about that? It sounds like something that might interest you, particularly for this campaign.
On the note of deities, you can allow each submitted character to generate their own deity (whether divine-oriented or not), and compile the list from those.
Also, I'll echo everyone else with the 25 point buy. It's like asking a kid if he wants two popsicles instead of one.
I do know about that actually. I think the materials would be safe to add in, go ahead.
I have an idea for the basics. I'll post them tomorrow, but there will be a god of healing and such.
I wanted to see what kind of power setting my prospective players wanted. Higher power it is.
I can do up a LN goddess of death and such.
i myself have an idea for a god if that's what we are currently discussing. Not sure what it'd be god of, probably nature but the idea is that it's a collective of a bunch of smaller things. A god that is a hive mind type thing if you will.
(Xanya answering): Battle Royale (or Hunger Games for you new kids out there) with groups instead of individuals does sound kinda interesting...
I kinda wish Path of War was allowed in order to do combat maneuvers with guns, but I fully understand to not let the amount of material explode. Having too much material to go through can drive people away.
I've been wanting to do something with the spellslinger archtype for some time (though I've been thinking more as a part of gestalt), but an eldritch archer magus might just be better for this setting.
I'll see what happens with my other games (as well as those I'm applying for) first though, I would hate to not have time for what I've committed to.
I getcha. A few weeks ago I said to myself, "boy. These four games I'm in are moving slower than I thought. Lemme look around for some" Now I'm in 10. Possibly 11 soon. I guess people like my ideas? If you figure you have the time, check back in. I'll be leaving this thread open for a while.
Edit: If you want to do maneuvers with guns, try the Empty quiver style feats. The melee attack it allows should be able to be replaced with most combat maneuvers.
Eldritch Archer and Spellslinger would be good, wouldn't they?
Snip
That's the thing I mean though. Twice as many "schools" to keep in mind. Twice as much homework to have a basic understanding of both sides. Twice as many abilities that sound like they were invented by an Italian Symphonic Metal group. It would be madness.
I don't really think I can memorize all the options, but I like to keep a good grasp on them, which takes time. I'm enjoying the discussion here, helps me see the other side of the coin.
In reality path of war is much worse than what you describe. Not only do they provide a lot of extra content for the game, but any martial character neither dipping into there nor picking up a couple feats is going to be subotimal. The classes and system is so front loaded it's not funny. I do like the material, but I wouldn't want a GM to commit to including it without knowing what it entails. It puts quite a bit of strain on both him and all the players.
As for the combat maneuvers, Empty Quiver is not what I was going for at all, I wanted to do combat maneuvers from range. That's still a melee attack. There is actually a way to do ranged trips now with paizo stuff (though at the cost of 4 feats), but it got nowhere near the viability, fun and power of Tempest Gale. The trick shots Gunlinger can get are the closest thing in paizo material I guess, but Tempest Gale provides way more options and it does so while still allowing you to deal decent damage. It's path of war and I'm probably not making a character anyway, so don't worry about it.
I don't know if that speaks more to PoW classes being strong or Paizo standard classes being weak.
You are right though, I can't think of any ways to really do ranged maneuvers off the top of my head.
I don't know if that speaks more to PoW classes being strong or Paizo standard classes being weak.
You are right though, I can't think of any ways to really do ranged maneuvers off the top of my head.
Paizo put a lot of effort into reducing the front loaded-ness of classes from 3.5, so I think it was deliberate to make multiclassing hard. The Pathfinder standard classes are just that. They're the standard for power. Well, some of them anyway, there's a reason I replaced the Rogue with the Unchained one. You can do ranged maneuvers with the Archer Figher Archetype, but at an unreasonable -4 penalty. Honestly, I think maneuvers are one of the few advantages a melee character has over a typical archer.
Anyone know where I can find a list of portfolios? I have the "cardinal" alignments in mind (LG, CG, LE, CE), but I don't know what portfolios exist, exactly.
Think I got it. I'll post later, and answer any other questions then.
In the meantime, why don't folk post their ideas for deities?
I'm proud of Paizo's and WotC's attempts to capture nature as more than male and female, but both still put the deity in Humanoid form.
Mycosriel - Deity of Nature, Plants, Darkness and Storms. TN electric blue mushroom. The cap has frilled spore tendrils by the hundreds hanging from it, and similar pseudopods crawl along the ground. The main form is surrounded by at least a dozen slightly smaller variations on the theme; the mass moves together, and although the deity is typically taken as the largest body, the satellites are probably attached as well.
Riestarch is a goddess presiding over death, community, and protection. Typically death is seen as something undesirable by most cultures, but for the Caretaker and her followers it represents a final peace from the harrows of life.
She does not actively support violence (though the situation does sometimes call for it regardless) and instead commands her flock to bring comfort to others in times of great strife. Similarly, those souls that enter her care are protected from any further suffering - that is, until they make it to their final destination. It is worth mentioning that the church of Riestarch is not one of healing, and it is notably taboo among them to attempt to cure a person of some fatal ailment. For them death is just another expression of life and it would be wholly unnatural to stand in its way.
Hospitalers
The order of paladins who carry on in the name of Riestarch. It may seem odd that a goddess of death runs a Hospice, there are ultimately many clinics and temples that ultimately have Riestarch as their patron. The Caretaker protects her followers, as a mother would a child.
For those who are beyond medical help, one of these Hospices is a welcome way to spend the short remainder of their lives. They aren't grim or terrible places, as Riestarch is not a morbid goddess, and her followers are gregarious and sentimental, making sure to comfort those who are suffering and allow them to enjoy what they have. Though outright cures in Riestarch's hospices are extremely rare, it's not uncommon at all for those who have shown great faith or are simply blessed by the kindly hand of Riestarch to have their disease go into remission or to become asymptomatic carriers.
Alignment: Lawful Nuetral
Portfolio: Death, Comfort, Protection, Community
Worshipers: Caretakers, Battlefield Healers, Lepers
Domains: Community, Death, Plant, Protection, Repose
Subdomains: Family, Plague, Decay, Souls, Defense, Undead
Favored Weapon: Heavy Shield
Symbol: Skull with a budding flow inside
Sacred Colors: Green & White
Are we doing average WBL, or average WBL with ABP included? The difference is starting with 1500 or 3000 gp.
Alignment: Neutral Good
Portfolio: Healing, Fire, Earth, Water, Air.
Worshipers: The Elemental races, healers.
Domains: Air, Fire, Earth, Healing, Water.
Subdomains: Wind, Smoke, Metal, Restoration, Flowing.
Favoured Weapon: Rifles
Symbol: A diamond formed of Fire in the top, Wind in the right, Earth on the bottom and Water on the left.
Sacred Colours: Blue, Green and Red.
Kalmista represents the blending of the elements from which most life arises. She is the Balance of Life itself, and works towards the end of making all life a little better, a little stronger. She teaches that all life should seek to improve itself and the world, and her worshippers should oppose any who wish to drag the world into darkness and hatred.
She believes that working to undo the balance of the world is an evil act, and that performing evil acts unbalances the world - they are one and the same. Her faithful are taught to avoid these if at all possible, and when faced with two evils to choose the lesser in the long run.
She is often worshipped by various members of the Elemental races, as they see there own aspect within her. The Suli are especially common worshippers, given they are also a blending of all four elements. Many other, more mortal races, worship Kalmistra as the Lady of Life and a powerful healer.
Although there is quite a bit of overlap, Kalmistra's church is generally seen in two forms - divine healers who help the populace, and powerful warriors that protect and restore balance.
Noticeably, Kalmistra changed her favoured weapon several generations ago when the developments of guns became common. She feels they better show the melding of the elements - the earth in the metal, the water in the stock, the fire in the powder and the air it displaces - than her previous weapon did.
^^Those beautiful ideas make me wish I'd waited until I got home rather than rushing out the 'shroom picking up my kid.
I like what I see so far. Though I do have to cock my head at a goddess of nature embracing a weapon which by and large is very dangerous to the environment, axes, spears, and bows don't explode and catch fire after all (without magic anyway). Course, maybe I'm just jealous because I wanted to do something similar with a god I haven't finished yet. I think a bow can work with him.
I was occupied longer than I thought, so I have three out of five Gods set up. They'd be:
Har-kul: The Old Lord
Har-kul represents the defenders of the weak. His church is frequently responsible for the defense of the borders of a country, and at one time were the blades that carved a path for civilization to take root. Many times they are called to defend their homes, but the true purpose of Har-kuls church is to nurture the newest generations. To prepare them for an ever changing world. His title was earned when he became the eldest of the gods. His predecessor in age, Rigel, was slain by the upstart Orion. Har-kul acts as a father to many of the Gods, which caused the God-Hunters actions to be seen negatively. The churches of the two are not in open conflict, though reparations are slow coming.
Har-kul’s followers believe in mercy whenever reasonable. Any captured foes are treated well, because when the battle is over, attacking someone is no longer done in defense. His Paladins are known far and wide as heralds of justice. Though many are foolhardy, the lessons of compassion Har-kul teaches fall on deaf ears to many young adventurers. Some branches of his church have undergone efforts to regulate these behaviors as of late.
Home: The Eldest Throne, Heaven
Alignment: Lawful Good
Portfolio: Family, Honor, Justice, Protection
Worshipers: Caretakers, Leaders, Guardians
Domains: Community, Good, Law, Strength, Protection
Subdomains: Archon, Cooperation, Family, Judgement, Loyalty, Redemption
Favored Weapon: Scythe
Symbol: A hand with an open palm
Sacred Animal: Horse
Sacred Colors: Red and Gold
Belial: The Fallen God
Belials very nature requires his churches to meet in secret in many corners of the world. He is lord among the Archdevils, and responsible for the construction of Hell as it is known today. Cast down from the heavens long before history was recorded, he clawed his way up through the putrid chaff of hells lowest reaches with one strange note. No devil can tell a time when he destroyed an an enemy of his personally. No devil still alive anyway. To all appearances, he does not get his own hands dirty, but manipulates, and sets others against each other.
Worshipers of Belial frequently keep their patron a personal secret, as even those without evil hearts know the stigma of following a Devilgod. In truth, some simply seek advice of Belial's priests to outwit their enemies. Contracts are the standard way of ensuring someone honors their word, and Belial has had much practice binding them. The tradition continues onto the material plane through his church. In some corners of the world, Belials faithful have established themselves as a major power.
Adjective: Belites
Home: Twisted Metropolis, Hell
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Portfolio: Contracts, Obfuscation, Slavery
Worshipers: Slavers, Tyrants,
Domains: Charm, Death, Evil, Law, Trickery
Subdomains: Blood, Deception, Devil, Divine, Murder, Thievery
Favored Weapon: Dagger
Symbol: A blindfolded skull
Sacred Animal: Goat
Sacred Colors: Deep Purple and Black
Vaoh: The Saint Sanguine
Vaoh is a mad god, associated with manic insanity, blood and undeath. He covets the War domain of Ashtoreth, and she knows it. It is said by his church that he spread the dual curses of undeath and lycanthropy to sew distrust between neighbors, and to unbalance the nature of the world. If Ashtoreth represents the heroism and bravery that is brought out in conflict, Vaoh is the aspect of horror and suffering. Yet his madness breeds creative minds. Disturbed minds often show artistic talent, and Vaoh is not merely a peddler of pain and destruction. He and his faithful see their work as art, flayed bodies as sculptures built with the same care, and sometimes even the same hands, as they would a marble statue.
He is worshipped in his most concentrated numbers by vampires and cannibals, who see him as their direct patron. Other intelligent undead, as well as werewolves do so as well. Some even setting up places of worship in cities with blasphemous mockeries of other religions as a cover. Among all of this is a warped sense of community between these various outcasts, all of them pulled towards the Saint Sanguine in the belief that they belong with one another. And mortals? Talkative cattle at best.
Adjective: Vaoans
Home: Floating Mass, Abyss
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Portfolio: Art, Madness, Undeath
Worshipers: Cannibals, the mad, undead.
Domains: Chaos, Death, Evil, Madness, Magic
Subdomains: Arcane, Demon, Murder, Nightmare, Undeath
Favored Weapon: Rapier
Symbol: A goblet running over with blood in a skeletal hand
Sacred Animal: Serpent
Sacred Colors: White and deep red.
Okey, I love the three gods, gotta give you that Smash.
But... now I'm torn. For real. I wanted to play something not divine (an alchemist with guns blazing), but the idea of a Paladin or Cleric of The Old Lord, oh man does it call me.
I gotta type it, even if this is no recruitment I gotta type it before the muses forsake this humble servant of them.
I can perfectly see him. An old man clad in red and gold... his armor no longer shiny and bright, a scythe hanging from his back.
His gaze is charged with the wisdom of those who have endured the worst life could throw at them.
His voice is filled with love for his brethren and words of hope.
His heart is divided: He wants to save them, but some of them are beyond salvation. Do the common people even care about the strain? Do they even know how hard is to be the Reaper, the Caretaker and the Judge at the same time? Do they fear him as much as he fears himself?
But when the doubt strikes his heart he remembers the faces of those he saved and those he prepared for the times ahead. He knows he walks a fine line between holiness and damnation, but someone has to do it... because the evil won't hold itself back.
He know that one day he will fall , and he looks up to it. Because the day it happens will be the day he has found something that makes forsaking his very ideals and Lord worth it. And may Har-kul have mercy of them because he will not.
That was relaxing. A great deal actually. I think he is called Thomas.
Got the other two done. I'll start brainstorming on the various gods relations to each other today.
Ashtoreth: The Choleric Queen
Ashtoreth represents the noble aspects of competition, as well as the best parts of the individual that are brought out in war. Heroism, camaraderie, and bravery are all associated with the Choleric Queen. Her title is well earned, as the first berserker in battle was said to be possessed by her spirit and Ashtoreths own power in single combat is said to be unmatched. She is aware that the Saint Sanguine wants her domain of war, but she knows full well how that would end.
The faithful of Ashtoreth share her zeal for life. Knowing that they must live life to it’s fullest to please their goddess. Her followers are known for their fighting spirits, however, her church always teaches good tactics must be used. Poor planning is the domain of the foolish, and can cost lives. Her ideals are adopted by many athletes as well, competition is in the blood for her faithful. But this can come from any walk of life, as such her church is quite diverse in its roster.
Adjective: Ashtorethians
Home: Titanic Battlescape, Elysium
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Portfolio: Battle, Bravery, Determination, Glory
Worshipers: Athletes, warriors, performers
Domains: Chaos, Glory, Good, Strength, War
Subdomains: Azata, Blood, Competition, Heroism, Resolve, Tactics
Favored Weapon: Greatsword
Symbol: A field of broken weaponry
Sacred Animal: Sparrow
Sacred Colors: Explosions
Orion: The God-Hunter
Long ago, the mortal Orion slew the Ancient God Rigel. None know how he accomplished this feat, as the gods were originally thought to be entirely beyond mortal grasp. Some scholars theorize he received aid from Belial the god of devils, who wanted the power of Rigel himself. Some say Rigel never died at all, but reincarnated himself to gain new worshippers. Whatever happened, no one since Orion has replicated this feat. Mostly because he takes a personal interest in tracking any mortals who would replicate his accomplishment, and destroying them. This is not done purely out of spite, however. After ascending with the power stolen from Rigel, he was tasked by Har-kul with preventing others from slaying more of the Old Lords kin. Orion accepted the assignment, feeling remorse for his previous actions. He extends his eye to all who would attempt to rise to the ranks of godhood as well. The other gods are wary of his future actions, but he has made no moves against them yet.
The God-Hunter emphasizes the acts of hunting as well as striving to hone one's own skills. In accordance with what little is known about his mortal life, his church has taken to the woods, frequently meeting at each solstice and equinox. Often he is associated with nature, as well as mystery. Many who wish to research ancient ideas and lore pay homage to him, as the Knowledge domain is one he took from the Ancient God.
Home: Tempest Wilds, Astral Fires
Alignment: Neutral
Portfolio: Knowledge, Vigilance
Worshipers: Assassins, vigilantes, sport hunters
Domains: Animal, Death, Knowledge, Strength, Travel
Subdomains: Espionage, Exploration, Feather, Ferocity, Memory, Psychopomp
Favored Weapon: Longbow
Symbol: An arrow split in an upper and lower half. Some more modern depictions show a bullet similarly cut.
Sacred Animal: Scorpion
Sacred Colors: Black and White
These gods are awesome and are totally getting me thinking more about my character.
I actually could use some assistance with an aspect: for having previously been involved in some kind of Holy War, are there
two races or followers of two different gods for whom that would have made sense? I was originally leaning towards Elf or Aasimar but if we're making something new, certainly there can be something different done there.
Riestarch and The Old Lord both seem like potentially good candidates for me to follow. Whatever the circumstances of the war, which I'm super interested in writing about, the important thing is that my people would have lost, and may in fact no longer have a homeland, or may be bordering extinction.
Don't mean to interrupt, just wanted to bump my question about WBL. Are we adjusting for ABP or not?
Good job on the gods brah, they are all interesting a difficult feat to accomplish especially with Lawful good things
Heya GM, quick question - I'm swapping over to Oracle, and was wondering if I could grab this Curse?
Effect
If a non-enemy character who is adjacent asks you to heal them, or asks you for help and you can tell they have taken damage or drain or suffer from a disease or poison, you must help them on your next tum. If they have a condition or suffer from a poison or disease that you can neutralize or cure with any ability you possess or any spell you can cast, you must do so as your next action. Otherwise, if they have taken any damage, you must cast a spell or use an ability that heals hit points. Also, you cannot perform a coup de grace. You gain the ability to lay on hands, as the paladin ability, using your curse level as your paladin level.
At 5th level, you gain a mercy, as the paladin ability.
At 10th level, you gain a second mercy, and can exchange your first mercy for a different one.
At 15th level, you gain a third mercy, and can exchange one of your existing mercies for a different one.
Alrighty then, in order:
I actually could use some assistance with an aspect: for having previously been involved in some kind of Holy War, are there
two races or followers of two different gods for whom that would have made sense? I was originally leaning towards Elf or Aasimar but if we're making something new, certainly there can be something different done there.Riestarch and The Old Lord both seem like potentially good candidates for me to follow. Whatever the circumstances of the war, which I'm super interested in writing about, the important thing is that my people would have lost, and may in fact no longer have a homeland, or may be bordering extinction.
I'm a bit unclear on what you mean. Are you asking if there are/were some racial lines drawn in a recent war? If so, I have some preliminary ideas I can post.
Are we adjusting for ABP or not?
Yes, adjust for ABP.
Good job on the gods brah.
Thanks! I'm glad they're getting a good reception. I was a bit worried The Old Lord would end up too boring too. But now I'm thinking Ashtoreth needs a bit of work.
quick question - I'm swapping over to Oracle, and was wondering if I could grab this Curse?
Sure, I'm familiar with the Merciful curse. All that means is that I can throw more crap at you guys without feeling bad about it.
Side note: I'm still wide open if more folks are interested, but are just stalking the thread. I'm a very vindictive crafty open GM.
I'm a bit unclear on what you mean. Are you asking if there are/were some racial lines drawn in a recent war? If so, I have some preliminary ideas I can post.
I actually could use some assistance with an aspect: for having previously been involved in some kind of Holy War, are there two races or followers of two different gods for whom that would have made sense? I was originally leaning towards Elf or Aasimar but if we're making something new, certainly there can be something different done there.Riestarch and The Old Lord both seem like potentially good candidates for me to follow. Whatever the circumstances of the war, which I'm super interested in writing about, the important thing is that my people would have lost, and may in fact no longer have a homeland, or may be bordering extinction.
Yes! Basically, any ideas for recent racial/religious wars that I can have been a part of. Anything that would steer me in a racial direction, really. There are several races that I can make work, with no real reason to be pulled to any of them in particular, save the Human's Bonus Feat, which is a poor reason to choose a race.
I made an attempt to create my idea for a Diety
Soriel, That which is Many
Represents the essence of nature and the forces connecting everything. Soriel is not a single being but many, appearing as but balls of light or taking the form of a body-less voice, of multiple things speaking at once. How Soriel came to sentience, none know not even Soriel himself. Soriel home is the Material plane, where his various consciousnesses act, in an effort to keep the plane safe from Outsiders.
Soriel's followers believe in protecting the home above all else, often fighting to protect it from those who would seek to destroy it. His practices consist of teaching honor and wisdom, always growing and learning to better one's self and helping others to grow as well.
Although it should be said followers are rare due to many not considering him a real god. Soriel's followers are often recluses, loners, and those who take refuge in the deepest wilds.
Adjectives Sorien's
Alignment Neutral
HomeThe Material plane
PortfolioFamily, Protection, Nature, Spirits
Worshipers Recluses, Druids, Fey, Healers,
DomainsCommunity, Repose, Protection, Air, Water
Sub DomainsWind, Growth, Home, Defense,Souls
Favored Weapon Unarmed Strike
Symbol A Tree with many roots spreading far and wide.
Sacred Animal The Ant
Sacred Color Green
Yes! Basically, any ideas for recent racial/religious wars that I can have been a part of. Anything that would steer me in a racial direction, really. There are several races that I can make work, with no real reason to be pulled to any of them in particular, save the Human's Bonus Feat, which is a poor reason to choose a race.I'm a bit unclear on what you mean. Are you asking if there are/were some racial lines drawn in a recent war? If so, I have some preliminary ideas I can post.
I actually could use some assistance with an aspect: for having previously been involved in some kind of Holy War, are there two races or followers of two different gods for whom that would have made sense? I was originally leaning towards Elf or Aasimar but if we're making something new, certainly there can be something different done there.Riestarch and The Old Lord both seem like potentially good candidates for me to follow. Whatever the circumstances of the war, which I'm super interested in writing about, the important thing is that my people would have lost, and may in fact no longer have a homeland, or may be bordering extinction.
Alrighty, I'll see what I can type up tomorrow.
...
We'd be using background skills.
...
Does that include the "Expanded Skill Uses" block? I'm asking just out of innate curiosity, and because I'd honestly never read that far down before. I'm led down an interesting line of thinking because of the inclusion of this table in the mechanics.
Before I get that far and ramble for way too long to hold interest:
Craft: Clockwork I assume is going to be important in Calweld's society? And is there a "new" Knowledge skill for steampunk, or would it just fall under Engineering?
Back to the rant, I don't understand what necessitated the addition of this bit into an official rule book. PFS play doesn't use it; everything else is home-based, and so all of that is up to the GM to determine, and clever players to propose. And while I do appreciate a list of DCs, they've almost eliminated creative play by including some of these.
Example: I would let a PC with Weapon Focus: Longbow sorting through loot tell the difference immediately between a non-composite and composite longbow. They've spent the better part of their lives using that weapon; they're undoubtedly familiar with it. He's got Weapon Specialization, too? He can tell you if it's a +0 or a +5 strength bonus. But by putting Craft: Bows on that chart to identify just like that, how many people do you think would disagree with my approach, because it's written down differently?
Both D&D and Pathfinder give guidelines for a GM to generate an entire world for themselves; new classes, new races, new spells, everything. I remember reading thorough the 3.0 DMG the summer before 7th grade, and even at that age, I never felt like I was being forced to do something one way or another; the basis of the book itself was to give you means of doing whatever you wanted. It was beautiful.
The game's evolved over the years, largely for the better, but it seems like more and more, the ideas of critical thinking, roleplaying, and problem solving are being removed with a slow, steady hand incorporating charts like that into the game. Paizo people read these boards; they have to know how that's going to be interpreted by a large part of the community. It just astounds me.
...and sorry for all that. /rant.
It's been that way for a while, and it's just kind of the nature of the thing. For example, I don't really like the idea of Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate as skills.
Another example is the Rumormonger rogue talent which allows a rogue to spread rumors, which while being largely useless also implies that a rogue can't spread rumors on their own.
I chalk it up to one of those things that falls through the cracks in the transition to a PnP rule-set. Because it's entirely ignorable it isn't a problem.
I will say this however: what about the expanded crafting rules actually eliminates creative play? It's another list of options that, despite being unnecessary, don't actually invalidate any other option.
A character with the appropriate profession skill can still identify a reasonable range of gear/equipment related to their specific profession.
A character with the appropriate skills can still reasonably identify equipment.
Anyone can attempt untrained craft checks to identify equipment on top of that.
Where does it actually threaten creative play?
Because now there is a RAW section for those items listed.
There are those (and just browse the Paizo forums, particularly instances of rule questions) who believe that if something is written, that is the only way said thing can be performed.
It's similar to your Rumormonger example. It could easily (if one simply chooses not to critically think) be stated that because that talent exists, then the implication is correct, and a PC can not otherwise spread rumors (or, at a slightly more liberal interpretation, can not do so effectively).
So a chart stating that Craft(Bow) is what is used to identify Composite/Masterwork bows on sight, by that same tier of thinking, means that no other method can be used to do so, and my Int-dumped fighter has to roll a 17 or greater to be able to identify the weapon he's spent his career (and mechanical points) focused on.
I agree partly, but I think my larger point is that I don't see how that's an interpretation that is actually supported by the rules.
Even by the strictest reading of the rules there are still a few different ways that a character may identify a specific piece of gear. Additionally, anybody can take 20 on an untrained craft check and succeed at identifying most common gear.
An interpretation that only craft can be used to identify things seems to me to be invalid. I also think it would be the fault of the person making that call rather then the rules themselves.
Even by the strictest reading of the rules there are still a few different ways that a character may identify a specific piece of gear.
Such as? Give me another RAW example for identifying a composite bow by sight, and I'll agree it's a moot point.
I don't disagree with you; it is invalid, and wholly the fault of the person making the call. That does little to negate the existence of those who would make that call, or that the chart in question provides fuel for their arguments.
I also dislike how they made Blacksmith a Craft skill over a Profession; but none of this has anything to do with the campaign thread I hijacked, aside from the inclusion of Background skills.
Even by the strictest reading of the rules there are still a few different ways that a character may identify a specific piece of gear.Such as? Give me another RAW example for identifying a composite bow by sight, and I'll agree it's a moot point.
A character with a rank in either Profession soldier or hunter can identify tools of their trade and answer questions related to their profession. DC 10+
We could continue by PM if youd rather
Pathfinder has a particular habit of adding "new" options that paradoxically limit how things were done previously. But yes, PM's please. I'm working on the race histories I mentioned before, but to answer:
Craft: Clockwork I assume is going to be important in Calweld's society? And is there a "new" Knowledge skill for steampunk, or would it just fall under Engineering?
I'm glad you asked that, as I hadn't considered something aside from Know: Engineering. I'll get back to you on it, since this sounds like something with quite the impact.
Pathfinder has a particular habit of adding "new" options that paradoxically limit how things were done previously. But yes, PM's please.
We did; I honestly hadn't meant for it to go to such lengths, but finding things like that in PF always tend to get to me. It hearkens back to the splat from 3.5, wherein it was almost like a completely different team wrote them with little consideration for the original.
go space Broncos!
Ha! I thought he looked like a sane Ash Williams; I'm still working on what I want to do with him, but I'm leaning towards Monk, and that avatar hardly works!
I have another one for you; stuff from the Weapons Master's Handbook allowed, particularly the feats?
Well, I did happen to recommend a feat or two from it in this thread already, so I'd say yes.
Well, I did happen to recommend a feat or two from it in this thread already, so I'd say yes.
You did! I went back and clicked through the links. I wasn't familiar with the feats you mentioned, and I usually try to avoid reading specifics regarding build suggestions directed at others; until after I've put mine together. I wouldn't want to copy anyone, intentionally or not.
Speaking of builds, this is Johnnycat with my submission. I'm going to hold off on doing a backstory (the GM knows the broad strokes and I'm happy to answer any further questions). It looks like things are still being figured out for the setting.
Feedback/commentary/criticism is welcome and appreciated.
How many traits, if any, are we allowed. (I really hope we're allowed traits, or I just wasted far too much time hunting down the right ones).
Nice.
Dos. No drawbacks, and if anyone has reactionary, they better be non-violent types.
Good thing I grabbed two (Holy Symbol Tattoo, A Friend in Every Town) then.
Here's an overview of a few races interactions, and a bonus history factiod.
The orc’s have a much different reading of the city. While peace was made between Orc clans riding through the plains of the continental east and the humans native to there, the island Calweld makes it’s home on causes information to travel slowly from the outside. All these folks know is that the blood war is not to be spoken about aloud. Nearly a decade ago riots broke out in the streets of the capital, and the nearby city of Tor. The chaos ensued for two weeks before the government was able to get the cities under control again. Some of the damage can still be seen in the less well travelled corners of the two cities. The two most active groups of participants were the Orcs and humans, attacking each other in ways that are still whispered bitterly about at night. But Calweld house made it clear that they wouldn’t tolerate any further actions. The Devoted Church of The Old Lord have followed suit, though, perhaps not for the same reasons. If word were to escape to the outside, after all, it could be perceived as weakness. But regardless of official orders, the locals haven’t forgotten the damage that occured that night.
Sorry, no wars yet, not on the island anyway. I may come up with something unless someone has an idea.
Hmmm, the war could have been off-island. I'm imagining having lost our home, and being something of a wanderer now. It seems like Tengu could be a possibility? But I'll wait and see what other ideas emerge, too!
On to the gun question.
Instead of targeting touch AC, all firearms will be given a Penetration Rating. This rating is equal to one quarter (rounded up) of the damage die of the weapon. So, a revolver dealing 1d8 ignores 2 points of armor, a rifle ignores 3, a small sized revolver (dealing 1d6) would still ignore 2 AC, but a small rifle only ignores 2, etc... When a misfire occurs, the superior make of a masterwork gun means that the misfire value only increases by 2. It would be a standard action to fix when a gun is broken from a misfire. This effect doesn't stack with the similar effect from Gun Training. Also, due to the availability of these weapons, their price is 10% normal value listed in the firearm table, and regular ammunition as well. However, due to government regulation, you will be known about by the three major houses.
Any thoughts? I'm also considering removing removing Gun Training (and Gunslinger as well) entirely and replacing it with a level of caliber in the bullets used by the gun, a system just about identical to composite bows.
Edit: Perhaps your family was caught in the crossfire of the previous war between orcs and humans? Losing their home in the process, and having to wander?
Penetration rating is an interesting idea. It should keep guns from being ridiculously powerful, since most people are likely to have them. Having the bullets have more variety to work like composite bows is something that also makes sense and sounds fun.
But I'm curious what the Gunslinger would get instead of Gun Training? Removing it entirely makes Gunslinger a bit of an unappealing class (since you also don't need the proficiency, and we're starting with enough money to simply buy a gun.)
[EDIT] Missed the edit. Could be interesting, especially if we had trouble choosing a side, and it wasn't a good vs evil thing.
Right, I meant to include removing the Gunslinger itself as well. Fixed.
Edit: It would be more of a territory thing. I've always found Good vs. evil conflicts with racial lines to be a bit ahh... sketchy.
Edit: x2: The Gunslinger class is already pretty unappealing, IMO. Not much going for it except that one feature these days.
I'm not sure I see the advantage of removing gun training and hitting touch AC, but if that's what we're going with then I don't mind (since I'm not using guns anyways).
Hmm, I liked the idea of a dip into Gunslinger (obviously for Gun Training) but also both for Grit and for building up my skills a touch, since Paladin is pretty light on them (and has things like not even getting Perception as a damned Class skill) but I suppose I could dip into Ranger or Slayer or Inquisitor for a couple of things instead.
It could work with the backstory, too - having been a part of a small tribe/village/town and having been a hunter or some such. Discover a god as part of coping with the loss, ensure that it won't happen to others, etc.
So, yeah, I think I could do without the Gunslinger class.
I'm not sure I see the advantage of removing gun training and hitting touch AC, but if that's what we're going with then I don't mind (since I'm not using guns anyways).
I don't think it's intended to be an advantage. Guns, especially the modern ones, are stupid powerful.
I'm not sure I see the advantage of removing gun training and hitting touch AC, but if that's what we're going with then I don't mind (since I'm not using guns anyways).I don't think it's intended to be an advantage. Guns, especially the modern ones, are stupid powerful.
...I disagree.