We've had a thread where you roll for 5 races to get a setting, and I've seen people do other things with their races. I'm just curious if folks here think Tolkien-based races must be in any world or, if they aren't, what folks likes to use instead.
I'm also curious if folks have done anything with humans differently. For instance, it would be possible to use the Bible's Genesis for human life spans. Then there could also be various subraces (undersea, for instance).
Thoughts?
Tolkien races don't have higher inherent value for a fantasy setting, they just are an expected standard that makes the material immediately more accessible to new players who can transfer some of their out-of-game knowledge into the setting and immerse themselves without reading 50+ pages of fluffy history lessons.
I don't think you need to do something special with human races, they are the most accessible choice which you can throw some real-world history cultures at without needing to explain everything in exhaustive details because the reader will always be able to understand what's going on. Unlike with insect races, for example, where you definitely need to explain some stuff.
But what you absolutely need to do is make human cultures not lame. Inspiration from the real world is fine, even appreciated, but please don't just use copypasta where everything is like Ancient Egypt except it totally isn't! *cough* Osirion *cough* Put an interesting spin on things, shake it up, play with expectations. Your human culture has pyramids? Everyone will assume it'll be Fantasy Egypt, only to be surprised when you reveal an atheistic culture of psionic clans who take turns building said pyramids to fight entropy and bring order to the world without having actual kings or queens.
Your idea about extended human lifespans from the Old Testament's succession lists are exactly what I mean. That would make humans pretty interesting, although you'd need to fiddle with the aging table and also account for what happens to the accumulated knowledge of being 8.000 years old and how that doesn't (or does!) make you a demigod or something.
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In Archmage, a setting I've been working on for years, humans are the culmination of a vast genetic engineering project that incorporates the other humanoid races into a 'perfect being'. The project was deemed a failure, and now those awful humans are everywhere.
My group almost never plays with the standard races. There are favorites, like Catfolk, Tengu and Drow... I don't think I have seen a Dwarf in play... Elves and Half-Elves sometimes...
Setting-wise though, we pretty much use all the standard races.
Never modified humans though, I guess there is enough variety... I recall there being a bunch of Elf variants in previous versions of the game...
A part of me will always have a special soft spot set aside for the ideal tolkien-esque setting. However, I've recently been working on my own setting with twists on all the typical races. But adding more of my own. I remember how shocked I was when playing the elder scrolls series - potential spoilers ahead - and finding out that dwarves are really just technologically advanced elves that live underground. I think that was the first time I had encountered a standard race being something other than the traditional.
Every now and then though, I want a good traditional game of a party of humans, elves, dwarves and halflings stomping on some goblins and orcs.
We've had a thread where you roll for 5 races to get a setting, and I've seen people do other things with their races. I'm just curious if folks here think Tolkien-based races must be in any world or, if they aren't, what folks likes to use instead.
I'm also curious if folks have done anything with humans differently. For instance, it would be possible to use the Bible's Genesis for human life spans. Then there could also be various subraces (undersea, for instance).
Thoughts?
Games like Blue Rose are awesome without having Dwarves or Elves.
I've also imagined a few D&D settings that didn't use the classical Tolkien races or used them differently.
-One d&d 4 setting had humans being brutal extra-dimensional invaders in a world where fey creatures (Pixies, hengeyokai, elves, eladrins, satyrs, hamadryads, wildens, gnomes and drow) are the main races.
-In another setting, there were only humans and human hybrids (half-elves, half-orcs, aasimars, tieflings...), all other races being unable to survive in the mortal world for long.
{. . .}
I've also imagined a few D&D settings that didn't use the classical Tolkien races or used them differently.
Actually, D&D itself doesn't use the Tolkein races like Tolkein did. In D&D, Elves aren't immortal, and don't emigrate to a certain restricted area of the world, and are described as Chaotic, whereas Tolkein's Elves may have acted wacky around non-hostile but not entirely welcome visitors, but were VERY disciplined . . . And definitely no Constitution penalty either. And most D&D Trolls don't have any particular vulnerability to sunlight, either. And both Eberron and the Pathfinder Campaign Setting have had their own unique takes on Halflings, even though the latter gives them back some of the Shire flavor.
-One d&d 4 setting had humans being brutal extra-dimensional invaders in a world where fey creatures (Pixies, hengeyokai, elves, eladrins, satyrs, hamadryads, wildens, gnomes and drow) are the main races.
{. . .}
Sounds like GURPS Banestorm, although on a different platform.
Another setting that has its own take on various fantasy races is the WarCraft Universe. This even got a D&D port, which had a cool concept, but very flawed execution, and D&D wasn't really the optimal system to do this in anyway (I mean, come on, the WarCraft III RTS game just about gives you a tabletop-ready rules system on a silver platter, and it got completely ignored), although if Blizzard and Sword & Sorcery Studios/White Wolf decided to retry this on a Pathfinder platform, I'd be willing to look and see if they can get it right this time.
Tolkien races don't have higher inherent value for a fantasy setting, they just are an expected standard that makes the material immediately more accessible to new players who can transfer some of their out-of-game knowledge into the setting and immerse themselves without reading 50+ pages of fluffy history lessons.
My group almost never plays with the standard races. There are favorites, like Catfolk, Tengu and Drow... I don't think I have seen a Dwarf in play... Elves and Half-Elves sometimes...
Setting-wise though, we pretty much use all the standard races.
Never modified humans though, I guess there is enough variety... I recall there being a bunch of Elf variants in previous versions of the game...
One of the things that always struck me is that Orcs and Goblinoids are never among the standard races and are almost always "enemy races". It's a little disconcerting because it's basically making it so you can kill one of those races with impunity.
Actually, D&D itself doesn't use the Tolkein races like Tolkein did. In D&D, Elves aren't immortal, and don't emigrate to a certain restricted area of the world, and are described as Chaotic, whereas Tolkein's Elves may have acted wacky around non-hostile but not entirely welcome visitors, but were VERY disciplined . . . And definitely no Constitution penalty either. And most D&D Trolls don't have any particular vulnerability to sunlight, either. And both Eberron and the Pathfinder Campaign Setting have had their own unique takes on Halflings, even though the latter gives them back some of the Shire flavor.
I know there's not exact parallels, but I was just curious what races become standard and why. Every world is a bit different, and there are some interesting variants, but I'm still just curious how folks see this.
I guess what comes immediately to mind is that if a race doesn't look like a human it looks like some anthropomorphic animal or monster, and I'm not sure what interest there is in anthros or beastial races.
If there were a setting where, say, catfolk, ratfolk, kobolds, lizardfolk, strix, and locathah were the standard races (and there were no human-like races), would folks still want to play it?
Or if there were a setting of orcs and goblinoids only...I mean, if orcs were a PC race would they be made to look differently? Same with the goblins and hobgoblins. It seems that a lot of races PCs are to fight are made to look like something that folks wouldn't mind killing.
I could have sworn to having seen some RPG go by recently where more or less everybody is an anthropomorphic animal, but I can't remember the name. Less specifically, for certain settings/genres, Toon (1984)would work for this.
We've had a thread where you roll for 5 races to get a setting, and I've seen people do other things with their races. I'm just curious if folks here think Tolkien-based races must be in any world or, if they aren't, what folks likes to use instead.
I'm also curious if folks have done anything with humans differently. For instance, it would be possible to use the Bible's Genesis for human life spans. Then there could also be various subraces (undersea, for instance).
Thoughts?
Talislanta and it's legion of fans answered that question for six editions. The creator of the game and setting gave it away at talislanta.com. Unfotunately the site seems to have shutdown.
Fursona has a race book of anthro-animals.
I have played in a world were dwarves were badger-men, elves were deer-men and halflings became squirrels. interesting...
Actually, D&D itself doesn't use the Tolkein races like Tolkein did. In D&D, Elves aren't immortal, and don't emigrate to a certain restricted area of the world, and are described as Chaotic,
Even though half the time they seem more Lawful, like in Golarion. ;D
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Talislanta and it's legion of fans answered that question for six editions. The creator of the game and setting gave it away at talislanta.com. Unfotunately the site seems to have shutdown.
Fursona has a race book of anthro-animals.
I have played in a world were dwarves were badger-men, elves were deer-men and halflings became squirrels. interesting...
*nods* I know there are other systems with different PC races. Heck, even D&D 5e now has the tieflings and dragonborn as main core races. (I know they were also there in 4e but I never got used to that version.)
I guess, it seems like the PC races for Pathfinder (and for the longest time in D&D) were races that basically looked like humans - or funny-colored humans. You get added on races later, but it seems like the designers go out of their way to make some things acceptable to kill. Orc, hobgoblins, and goblins are the usual suspects. They're always evil and most goblins look like something that needs to be squished. Sure, the other races have their quarrels but you never see a racial hatred among dwarves and elves like you do dwarves and goblins.
And I know that GMs can alter this sort of stuff at will for everyone. I just keep thinking how unfortunate it is that all the "pretty" races are good and generally get along while all the "ugly" races are the ones you're allowed to murder because, basically, they're always evil and so deserve it.
The WarCraft universe also does something different with Goblins -- these are more like the Ferengi of the WarCraft universe, but usually with impaired self-preservation instincts (you'd think that this would correct itself over the course of a few generations . . .).
By the way, if you want to see good Goblins, check out the Star Wars series, for Yoda (LG) and Maz Kanata (probably NG or maybe CG).