A situation arose in a game that I have not found the wording to support.
The things that matter:
Tier 3-4
TPK with body recovery required.
Now, one of the party members wanted to accept his death and donate his gold on hand to another PC to help him defer the cost of his raise. FAQ and GTOP reviewed, I see nothing that specifically excludes this. To be clear, the question proposed is: Can a dead character opt-in to the pooling resources clause of the GTOP?
The initial decision was 'No' with no source of reference. Upon further inspection I am no longer sure that is the case.
If you say no, please cite some sort of reference.
Thank you
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Yes you can spend gold from your dead character to help raise another player's dead character at the same table.
Were I GM'ing and this situation arose, I don't think I would have any issue with the PC choosing to stay dead helping out the others. I haven't found anything specifically allowing or disallowing it, so it will probably come down to the GM's discretion. I guess what I'm saying is, expect table varaition. Unless someone else comes along with a post or a quote addressing this situation.
UndeadMitch wrote: Were I GM'ing and this situation arose, I don't think I would have any issue with the PC choosing to stay dead helping out the others. I haven't found anything specifically allowing or disallowing it, so it will probably come down to the GM's discretion. I guess what I'm saying is, expect table varaition. Unless someone else comes along with a post or a quote addressing this situation.
Fair enough, I am the GM in question here, I see no reason to say no, I actually asked the other GM and he gave me an affirmed 'yes' so I went with it, in the immortal words of Han Solo..
"I can fix this!"
Be sure to thank the player of the perma-dead character for their sacrifice.
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Nefreet wrote: Be sure to thank the player of the perma-dead character for their sacrifice. Possibly with alcohol
*pours one out for the homie that paid the ultimate price to save his -5*
Eyup. Not only can he donate his gold, he can sell his gear at half price (and may as well )
I would think someone would have to at least cast 'Speak with Dead' before robbing the character of his stuff and selling it. Or a will drawn up before the adventure stating 'If I am killed along with someone else just sell my stuff to help pay for the other guy's raise dead'.
'Jim and Joe are dead, you know Joe kinda look like he lost the sparkle from this eyes, he never said anything while alive, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind if we took his treasured gear to raise Jim. His parents/wife/kids really don't need that inheritance/are all dead.'
BigNorseWolf wrote: Eyup. Not only can he donate his gold, he can sell his gear at half price (and may as well ) I would rule Yes in most cases.
He would need to spend the 5PP for body recovery to sell his stuff. It probably doesn't matter, but it makes the paperwork easier. Locally, gold is assumed to not be on your character, but always available to be spent during the mission.
A pre-gen may or may not have the same option available, depending on how the death chronicle is applied. For example a 4th level pre-gen may be applied to a 1st level character who doesn't have the 5PP available yet.
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EricMcG wrote: Locally, gold is assumed to not be on your character, but always available to be spent during the mission. Ah, the Pathfinder Gold Card. Accepted everywhere! Everywhere I've played, this has been tacitly assumed.
A few months ago I was involved in an unavoidable tpk. I, the player, decided that the character was done, though he could have come back. Sold all gear and donated all gold to other players keeping two from losing their characters who would not have been able to afford the recover and raise. TPKs are rough for everyone involved, per a death even more so. Please do not reject someone's generous sacrifice in such a case.
From the Pathfinder Society guide: Please note that players can (and are encouraged to) share or pool their resources in order to bring a dead party member back to life.
Since Pathfinder Society runs pure raw, the players have the choice, not the characters. Hopefully the player did not die during the scenario.
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Tindalen wrote:
Since Pathfinder Society runs pure raw,
bahahahhahahahhaaaahahaha
BigNorseWolf wrote: Tindalen wrote:
Since Pathfinder Society runs pure raw,
bahahahhahahahhaaaahahaha *raw including all Pathfinder Society house rules, faqs, and obscure forum posts by the decemverate.
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And then there are those of us who believe that there is no such thing as "RAW".
Nefreet wrote: And then there are those of us who believe that there is no such thing as "RAW". There are, and I understand your point, but pathfinder is a set of rules, pathfinder society is an interpretation of those rules with the intent of being universal between all readers. There are a lot of logical interpretations I would love to make, a mundane cloak for a small creature weights 1/4 as much as for a medium creature, an enchanted version should be the same. However, pathfinder society does not recognize that logic as it has not been explicitly written. Thus rules as written is, at least in the set of rules we must abide by in Pathfinder Society, a thing.
Step outside of Pathfinder Society where interpretations are allowed to be adjudicated amongst the people required to abide by the rules, and I agree. Such is the case of your examples of language progression and interpretation.
Tindalen wrote:
There are, and I understand your point, but pathfinder is a set of rules, pathfinder society is an interpretation of those rules with the intent of being universal between all readers.
Nope.
Pathfiner society does not have some ultrasecret extra official interpretation for every corner case of rules in the game. (or if they do, they won't let me in there, much like the executive bathroom...) Pathfinder society DMs interpret rules exactly the same way that home DM's do, with their own mix of RAW, common sense, balance, fairness, alchohol, and logic with the exception that...
Quote: There are a lot of logical interpretations I would love to make, a mundane cloak for a small creature weights 1/4 as much as for a medium creature, an enchanted version should be the same. However, pathfinder society does not recognize that logic as it has not been explicitly written. Thus rules as written is, at least in the set of rules we must abide by in Pathfinder Society, a thing. ...pfs DM's can't make outright house rules to change things. I know to some raw is law types interpretation from their idea of the one true law is the same thing, but its not. In this case i think the rules are pretty clear: magic items have the same weight for everyone. If that makes no sense, well, they do resize to fit everyone , maybe they need the extra mass to do that. Who knows. But PFS doesn't make a bunch of house rules for everything IN the game. It would be far too many extra rules to learn and memorize on top of the ones we already need to account for the differences between 1 DM playing with one group of players and a bunch of dms with a bunch of floating players.
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Woo! RAW vs. RAI! Everyone drink!
UndeadMitch wrote: Woo! RAW vs. RAI! Everyone drink! *points at the list of required ingredients above*
I think they're the same in this case. RAI is that the player has to be ok with you taking their stuff to get you a raise, and the rules for fame/body recovery and raise have a precedent for making prior arrangements in case of your demise.
(thats before the party goes all weekend at Bernie's with your corpse and a ventriloquism spell)
Big Norse, I agree completely. On topic, rules, intention, and good spirit all allow someone sacrificing their character for others in this case.
Nefreet and big Norse, I believe we probably have a general interpretation that aligns, I may just be more cynical, or less, in my description of it. I may also be influenced greatly by a very frequent fellow gamer who studied law. When I GM, anything not covered by the rules, I interpret as I am best able. Anything covered by the rules, I do my best to rule as Pathfinder Society dictates. But I am always open to rebuttals.
At the only TPK I have GMed, a player did exactly this, to save two characters that were playing up. His character had died before, and he decided it was time to stay at the Boneyard with his patron, Pharasma.
I applauded the decision.
Jack Brown wrote: At the only TPK I have GMed, a player did exactly this, to save two characters that were playing up. His character had died before, and he decided it was time to stay at the Boneyard with his patron, Pharasma.
I applauded the decision.
Sleep well sir, for I have heard that tomorrow shall bring bitter tears...
And a guacamole salad apparently.
For the record, there is no reference to Rules As Written in the Guide.
It is simply: Do not contradict written rules, and run scenarios as written.
As a Pathfinder Society GM, you have the right and
responsibility to make whatever judgements, within the
rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure
everyone has a fair and fun experience. This does not
mean you can contradict rules or restrictions outlined in
this document, a published Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
source, errata document, or official FAQ on paizo.com.
Mekkis wrote: For the record, there is no reference to Rules As Written in the Guide.
It is simply: Do not contradict written rules, and run scenarios as written.
Dunno, what you are trying to say?
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