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Hello everyone,
I have been planning for a longer time to spring a classical city siege by the goblinoid army (orcs specifically in this case) due to story-wise reasons while PCs are busy doing their thing in a city. The siege, although not exactly in Lord of The Rings style, should provide close ressemblance to it. Next session tomorrow seems to be perfect time for it, but I am slightly unprepared, so I am gathering info and ideas in regards to it. The way that I imagine orcs, are very closely similar to Tolkien's orcs, so I am trying to mimic the similar movie siege here, but not necessary with the same events.
PC's (a group of level 6 characters) will be ambushed by the orc scouting party whose objective is to scout the area and set fire to the city's wooden walls to create drama and diversion. After defeating the scouting party (average APL 6 encounter), they will soon realize the panic and screams coming from the city. A war cry from a orc army will sound of and they will be pretty much forced to either face the army (impossible task) or return back from where they came. This is the point from which I haven't planned much further. I need some typical siege attacks, encounters of orcs trying to punch through the city walls, social encounters during panic, defending the city walls, etc. This siege will likewise give them a chance to recover their lost gear, animal companion and to finally get some allies maybe, so here I am asking for some information from forum people because I won't have time today to prepare enough.
Thanks on responses and ideas!
Adam
Honestly? Your army is more likely to place an easy escape route rather than forcing the PCs back into the city, think about it, when the word gets out ALL of the guards are going to be mobilizing to one half of the city to repel the invaders, so if your PCs are smart they will sneak out of the now woefully understaffed other side of the city
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So, if I've got this right, this is the idea you have in mind -
1) The PCs want to escape from the city
2) The PCs run into orcs, realize the city is surrounded and they won't get through orc lines easily
3) ...
4) PCs head back into the city and work together with the citizens/guards to repel the besiegers
I expect you might have a problem in step 3, getting them to turn back without making it look like you're pushing them.
If your players are 'nice' enough to bite on a properly baited plot hook, you could let them counter-ambush an orc scouting party that just ambushed the son of a local dignitary. After they make short work of the orcs the son asks them to come back to the city and promises that if they help hold off the siege, "whatever else they did" will be forgiven. If players are suspicious, Knowledge/Sense Motive checks will bear out that he's sincere and that the deal will likely be honored; the yakuza will be bought off and all.
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That gets us past this problem. On to your real question.
Of course watching some Return of the King could be helpful to get into the mood, but here are some encounter ideas:
- Many sieges start with a rush at the walls/gates, hoping to catch the defenders unaware. This is already happening, the problem is the PCs are still outside. They have to get into the city through the first wave.
- Orcs have a spectacular, powerful, but irreplaceable siege engine. While the guards rain down covering fire, the PCs have to go out there and destroy it. Special mechanic: the PCs will be attacked from various directions, but every combat round the PCs can signal the guards which clump of enemies to target with archery/catapults. Also: have the guard captain emphasize the need for the PCs to be fast about it, and confer on means to slow down enemy response units long enough for the PCs to do their job.
- A traitor in the city has opened a tunnel for the orcs, and now there's an orc special forces team in the city. The PCs need to intercept it before it commits fatal sabotage, and then seal the tunnel to prevent repeats.
- Orcs are trying to demoralize citizens by catapulting the heads of fallen humans over the walls. (These heads may have been necromantically animated or on fire or both.) The PCs need to prevent morale from cracking with some very visible stunt against the enemy or a great speech.
- An orc shaman cloaks part of his forces in Darkness. The guards are having a hard time repelling the attack while fighting blind. Typical PCs are much better equipped (Darkvision, Daylight etc.)
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@Hazrond
The orcs have already surrounded the entire city. There is pretty much no way around it and characters have exhausted their spells mostly by now. They have no means of flight and orc army has more then a few spellcasters to detect any magic. Sneaking around and avoiding this entire conflict might be an option, but I just don't see it happening really, not unless players can come up with some super idea, but that's almost never gonna happen.
@Kaylerloth
They don't have to care. City becomes only hope of avoiding danger.
PCs are more capable of offense. They pretty much built their characters for combat mostly. The idea in general is to push them back. Even if they are wanted criminals at this point, it won't matter. City nobles and guards won't care and they might provide them with amnesty are return of gear for example.
I know it's a bit railroadish, but in general idea is pretty cool in my head.
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@Ascalaphus
In general, you got it right, yes. I planned to just let PCs hear hundreds of footsteps in the distance after they encounter the scouting party. I assume that it should be enough to tell them to turn back into the city, but the idea about helping NPC isn't bad. I'll grant PCs a single DC 25 Perception check to hear footsteps in the distance. If they manage it and are curious enough, perhaps they can ambush orcs instead. In the end, I doubt there will be to many problems in forcing them back.
I love those ideas, and that's what I am looking for. The siege will probably continue (if it does) through several sessions anyway.
@Hazrond
The orcs have already surrounded the entire city. There is pretty much no way around it and characters have exhausted their spells mostly by now. They have no means of flight and orc army has more then a few spellcasters to detect any magic. Sneaking around and avoiding this entire conflict might be an option, but I just don't see it happening really, not unless players can come up with some super idea, but that's almost never gonna happen.
the issue is that this would NEVER happen, an army that huge would never in a million years be able to sneak up on a city like you have stated they have, the logistics are impossible, it also runs into the issue that the orc army would not be able to hold itself together if it was that large unless led by a quite literally legendary commander, because an army that size requires a huge amount of discipline to avoid falling into chaos, and discipline is not at all orcs or goblinoids strong suit, not to mention that encircling a city feels a bit too smart for a race that is so hotblooded and has a penalty to Int, frankly, this sounds incredibly railroady to me, why not prepare a hero's choice instead? They can aid the city and possibly escape their crimes through heroics, OR they can choose to use the weakened defenses on one side of the city to slip out and get a cinematic view of the city crumbling behind them, allowing them to escape and warn others of the army and leading to a new city siege where they are assigned to reinforce this other city's defenses ahead of time and prepare for the orcs
It gives the illusion of choice (which is a very good thing as opposed to railroading them) and both options are pretty heroic, in addition you get to keep your city siege with a little possible social maneuvering added in
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@Hazrond
There is really a lot of other reasons why this is happening like city surrounded by forest in a dark gloomy night, orcs mysteriously springing in the middle of state and not invading it through borders, an orc army being lead by a legendary commander, etc. This is about conquests and empires, not small army attacks.
Edit: I will prepare the choice, but PCs have to decide for themselves how to exactly avoid the army. The siege in general would a good plot point and I need to push their WBL a bit also.
@Hazrond
There is really a lot of other reasons why this is happening like city surrounded by forest in a dark gloomy night, orcs springing in the middle of state and not invading it through borders, an orc army being lead by a legendary commander, etc. This is about conquests and empires, not small army attacks.
then explain to me HOW such an army could be concealed, did they just materialize outside the city? Because an army as huge as you describe could NOT SNEAK UP ON THE CITY, they would literally have to be the most oblivious city ever, because nearly any city of any worth has villages and scouts and other people outside their walls, if nothing else their sudden silence would tip the city off, if not the survivors who escaped or their own military force warning them by yelling "THERES A MASSIVE ARMY OF ORCS HEADED THIS WAY!"
i gave you a wonderful idea that could lead into a great story and you got to keep your city siege AND show off the power of your army, but you rejected it out of hand because
This is about conquests and empires, not small army attacks.
even though it was PERFECTLY in line with the theme because this army has literally no reason to lose, so it would be a great plotline to allow the PCs to run and try to warn the actual army so that they can bring an army to fight the army and actually have some reasonable chance to defeat this supposed legendary commander, but EITHER WAY, its STUPID to just completely disallow a completely reasonable choice for arbitrary reasons, unless you can give me a real reason the PCs should care and not try to let the city fall and escape themselves? For that matter, people trying to sneak out can ve pretty dang slippery, if you know history you can probably remember DOZENs of times countries were trying to keep people out and how often were those actually completely effective? For that matter luck doesnt WORK for trying to keep an army concealed, you are trying to do something that is completely unfeasible and refusing to consider any counterpoints i present because you want to run a city siege, and you are ignoring any possible opportunities you could take to build up to said siege because you want it NOW, which is what bothers me, and why i am writing these long winded posts trying to explain why some stuff is a but overboard and how you could fix that, but you refuse to acknowledge my points
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Let's try something a little more in line with what the OP wants to do:
Here's an Idea for you: City guard spots the PCS as they are trying to make their escape, but it's no big deal: the PCs have prepared for this. They start going over the wall...
...Only to run into a horde of orcs coming UP the wall. Comedy invasion moment quickly turns to horror as they realize that this is a serious attack and are forced to stay in the city.
Because you definitely need to KEEP them in the city. The minute you let them over the wall they will probably try to leg it, no matter how big the surrounding army is. PCs are devious, they will get it into their craw to get away because its better than being caught in a seige and you will probably end up killing one or two of them while trying to dissuade them.
Your PCs are only 6th level, and this is an army of orcs which is big enough to encircle a city and has enough magical support to creep up on said city undetected and detect anybody trying to sneak past it. And set fire to wooden fortifications, no less (try burning a 2x4. It's hard). One is led to wonder what those PCs can sensibly achieve.
I don't know your players, but there's a big risk of TPK or accidental death due to misplaced expectations. If the players are determined to escape, how would you handle that? And how would they get back into the city when the defenders are trying to keep orcs (and orc agents?) out?
Whilst orcs claim to be CR 1/3, that's a gross underestimate (2H 18-20 weapons and ferocity go a long way). They're more like a weak CR 1. So a modest squad (say 10 of them and a 3W leader) is something like EL 7. Which is fine for your initial encounter. But there are thousands of them. PCs are gonna get minced.
The Minas Tirith battle in the RotK film is rather misleading. It gives the strong impression that MT stands isolated in a huge empty plain covered in nothing but wild grass. What do these people eat? Where are the fields and farms and villages? (Edoras in TT is the same.) So how did the army deal with those outlying farms and villages, or do they not exist? You'll need answers, lest your players ask.
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Alright, I have given it some thought based on all your opinions so far (Hazrond, I never dismissed your idea, you just read it wrongly).
Instead of letting PCs move out of the city, there will be city alarm announced. Of course, I can't force them to move to the town square, but several Knowledge (local) or Intelligence checks might reveal it's probably unconnected with their recent activities. On the town square, a guard officer will give a minor speech and order everyone to report to the town walls for defensive purposes. He won't reveal exactly what he knows, simply because he might raise a panic too large (several border patrols have been found killed and ripped apart).
At this moment, PCs have free reign what to do. They can use the distraction to attempt to recover their gear or animal companion or simply wait and see what happens. If they attempt to cross the wall, orc scouting party will show up (to keep them in).
I believe that this is better approach then.
In regards of TPK, death, expectations or siege in general, I usually balance encounters well enough and this should be plot moment for story to reveal itself. PCs already know about these orcs and ignored several plot hooks before, so this orc attack is merely a culmination of all those ignored hooks. PCs can find a way to escape if they want, but the escape needs to be plausible (several successful checks and maybe average APL social or combat encounter).
I still need more of those siege ideas. Siege might not happen in this city (for PCs), but it can still happen in the next one.
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Whilst orcs claim to be CR 1/3, that's a gross underestimate (2H 18-20 weapons and ferocity go a long way). They're more like a weak CR 1. So a modest squad (say 10 of them and a 3W leader) is something like EL 7. Which is fine for your initial encounter. But there are thousands of them. PCs are gonna get minced.
You haven't said anything incorrect here, but there is a long way in reaching TPK. Sieges are like that. Everyone might get demoralized by those numbers. I still haven't decided if the city should fall or not though, but I am sure that I can toss some sort of escape route if PCs badly search for it.
The Minas Tirith battle in the RotK film is rather misleading. It gives the strong impression that MT stands isolated in a huge empty plain covered in nothing but wild grass. What do these people eat? Where are the fields and farms and villages? (Edoras in TT is the same.) So how did the army deal with those outlying farms and villages, or do they not exist? You'll need answers, lest your players ask.
This is true also. Most people in this city are slaves actually, but ~35% are also guards, mercenaries and elite troops. In aspect of numbers, they have less people, but more experienced ones. Food is mostly imported (there is too much forest and quite frankly, I didn't put much thought into it). Fields and farms are non-existent here. Most of the income is coming from lumber and ore.
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Re: TPK risk. If need be, don't hesitate to just plainly tell your players "At your level you can easily kill an orc, but keep in mind that statistically, one in 20 orcs is going to roll a 20 to hit you. And you can see more orcs than you can count..."
Sometimes players need to be told explicitly that this obviously isn't a normal "balanced" encounter they can/should fight their way through.
I do agree that things will probably work out easier if the PCs never quite got around to leaving the city, rather than you having to contrive to get them back in. Although, as I've shown, it can be done in an elegant way. Especially if your players are relaxed enough that they won't go out of their way to avoid obvious plot hooks.
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@Ascalaphus
I might remind them if need be, but they already know this. They found themselves in more then once a situation where balance of forces is completely on enemy side. It's a sandbox game and they have been prewarned of this. In most cases, I put obvious situations or at worst give them a hint.
I don't know about relaxation though. They are kinda "it's dangerous, we aren't going there" mode most of the time, but that's kinda story for itself.
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I meant more in the sense that some players go through a phase where they go out of their way to avoid plot hooks, or anything else that interferes with the conception that they're the sole deciders of where they're going. It can get pretty crazy, with a war on all NPC authority figures and a resentment of any suggestion of plot as "railroading".
In my experience people mellow out after a while though and realize that taking railroad trips between interesting places is fine as long as there's comfortable chairs and a good cafetaria on board :P
And of course enough freedom to stretch your legs when you do get to places.
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Also, if you're doing a bit war or siege-related adventure, then I humbly suggest you check out this book, as it may be a big help to you.
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Well, session was major success. PCs tagged along the city a bit, listened to the city officer's speech on town square and decided to join the fight after war cry of several hundreds of orcs pierced the silence of night. They managed to successfully down around ~15 of them at the city walls and repel them enough, but orcs didn't provide direct threat all the time. It was more a race against time. Now, I need more epic battle ideas to expand this siege a bit.
@Acalaphus
Yes, it can get a bit crazy, but considering I am making some on the fly just to pick their interest, it's not that bad. Occasionally, I give them a small or major push. It's fairly boring campaign world if nothing ever reacts to them.
@Wolfsnap
That's seems like an interested book. I'll take a look at it, thanks.
Adam