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Within PFS how can a class without the spellbook feature get spells added to a spellbook?
Certainly if you have someone in your party capable of adding them then that would be the best option. If that is not possible, what other options exist?
Could you dominate/charm/convince a wizard NPC that appears in the module to do it for you? If so would the cost be the scribing cost?
Could you seek out a wizard and pay them if they do not appear in the module?
What other options exist?
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Within PFS how can a class without the spellbook feature get spells added to a spellbook?
Certainly if you have someone in your party capable of adding them then that would be the best option. If that is not possible, what other options exist?
Could you dominate/charm/convince a wizard NPC that appears in the module to do it for you? If so would the cost be the scribing cost?
Could you seek out a wizard and pay them if they do not appear in the module?
What other options exist?
Short answer....
You can't get one in PFSLong answer?
Here's another thread that'll answer this for you....
link
An interesting question for anyone playing a Lore Oracle with the Arcane Archivist revelation
There are some chronicles with certed spellbooks, but they are very few and far between.
Not all valid choices are going to be equally served in society play. ADR and Faq cover getting acesss to spells for a book caster to write themselves but not to hire a caster to write a book for you.
Mostly because this is essentially creating a spellbook, a custom item..... which is something that soiety wants to stay away from.
An interesting question for anyone playing a Lore Oracle with the Arcane Archivist revelationThere are some chronicles with certed spellbooks, but they are very few and far between.
Not all valid choices are going to be equally served in society play. ADR and Faq cover getting acesss to spells for a book caster to write themselves but not to hire a caster to write a book for you.
Mostly because this is essentially creating a spellbook, a custom item..... which is something that soiety wants to stay away from.
Bolding mine...
Can you PM me an example? I'd like to see how they are set up... Thanks!
I don't have one on hand but I think it's essentially XXX spellbook with a list of spells and a price.
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Within PFS how can a class without the spellbook feature get spells added to a spellbook?
Certainly if you have someone in your party capable of adding them then that would be the best option. If that is not possible, what other options exist?
Could you dominate/charm/convince a wizard NPC that appears in the module to do it for you? If so would the cost be the scribing cost?
Could you seek out a wizard and pay them if they do not appear in the module?
What other options exist?
What's the purpose of getting a spellbook if you can't use it?
um he actually necro'd that thread back in March....there's another thread that clarified "NO" but I can't seem to find it.
I did necro that thread back in March. As far as as a thread that says it is simply not possible, I have not found an authoritative one.
What's the purpose of getting a spellbook if you can't use it?Within PFS how can a class without the spellbook feature get spells added to a spellbook?
Certainly if you have someone in your party capable of adding them then that would be the best option. If that is not possible, what other options exist?
Could you dominate/charm/convince a wizard NPC that appears in the module to do it for you? If so would the cost be the scribing cost?
Could you seek out a wizard and pay them if they do not appear in the module?
What other options exist?
There are a lot of uses for spell books by classes that don't have the class feature.
Arcane Archivist revelation for lore oracles
To name a few.
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Long answer is.. there is no answer. Not no.
I didn't say the long answer was "no". I didn't even say the short answer was "no".
What I said was...
Short answer....
You can't get one in PFSLong answer?
Here's another thread that'll answer this for you....
link
Where in there did I say "no"?
The OP asked the following ...
Within PFS how can a class without the spellbook feature get spells added to a spellbook?
Currently there is no way to do this, there are no rules that cover this. At least I don't know of any. Perhaps BNW knows of something that woud allow this?
Certainly if you have someone in your party capable of adding them then that would be the best option. If that is not possible, what other options exist?
Currently there are no rules that I know of that covers this. BNW?
Could you dominate/charm/convince a wizard NPC that appears in the module to do it for you? If so would the cost be the scribing cost?
Currently there are no rules for this. Just as there are no rules for a dominated/charmed/convinced NPC Druid to train an animal... Or for an NPC blacksmith to craft armor, etc.
Could you seek out a wizard and pay them if they do not appear in the module?
Sigh. No rules cover this.
What other options exist?
Currently, none.
At least I know of no rules detailing how we handle this... And that's pretty much what was said in the long thread I linked above and called "long answer".
So, IMHO,
short answer, there are no rules for this, so it is not available.
Long answer, see the linked thread. (Which I had not realized the OP had posted in some time ago).
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Where in there did I say "no"?
Here: You can't get one in PFS
Whereas I think a more accurate answer is that its kind of iffy whether or not you could scribe spells into a spellbook, buy the spellbook (its no more custom than a +1 flaming firey keen cold iron sword), or have a wizard player write one out for you at cost.
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Where in there did I say "no"?Here: You can't get one in PFS
Whereas I think a more accurate answer is that its kind of iffy whether or not you could scribe spells into a spellbook, buy the spellbook (its no more custom than a +1 flaming firey keen cold iron sword), or have a wizard player write one out for you at cost.
So... You took my short answer as a long answer, and shortened "you can't get one in PFS" to be a one word answer... That I actually didn't say.
I'm glad we have cleared that up. This is something I've wanted to be able to do sense Season One, and in fact took a dip in wizard just to do.
Please detail the current procedure in PFS for adding spells to my spellbook (as a non-wizard) as I would like to re-train the single level of wizard I took and still be able to add new spells encountered to my Blessed Book (it has a large number of spells in it now, but it also has lots of blank pages still).
Edit: I actually have several PCs that would like to do this, I can see several spellbook owning PCs in my future.
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The main use seems to be to help your wizard friends bulk out their spellbooks, especially in Core Campaign, by expanding the number of Chronciles and enemy spellbooks they can access. And this is why I hope it remains impossible to do in PFS.
Please, take a deep breath, stand back, and actually look at some of the posts on this subject.
There are several class features, magic items, and feats that give a normally spellbookless classes the ability to use a spellbook, for one reason or another.
As cited just a few posts back
Versatile Spontenaity
Arcane Archivist revelation for lore oracles
Mnemonic Vestments
In addition:
Bookish Rogue is a feat that adds the ability for an Unchained Rogue with the Minor and or Major Magic talents to be able to use a spellbook to allow them to swap out the spells they use as an SLA.
So, no one has stated anything like your accusation, but many people have cited various items, abilities, and feats that allow classes without spellbooks to be able to use a spellbook, but do not include any provision to allow them to acquire a spellbook, other than as loot. And PFS seldom includes a spellbook as part of the loot, usually converting the contents into scrolls, and then only of non-Always Allowed scroll spells.
So, yet again, this can be considered a request to allow class features, magic items, and feats to be allowed to actually be able to do something. As it is, these items are limited or worthless in PFS play.
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Anyone can purchase a spell book, it is an always available mundane item in the core rule book, costs 15gp. The rules for putting spells in spell books is legal, doesn't even need you to be a caster, just need to make a spell craft check. Creating "custom" spell books is legal as well, as wizards, magus, arcanists, alchemists do it every day.
Why is it not legal for someone without the spell book class feature to do it? The spell book class feature only restricts the source of spell memorization and allows for the free addition of spells at level up.
from the PRD:
section on Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook
Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. A wizard can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard spell lists.
so the first line talks Wizards adding new spells to their spellbooks... so your statement above "The rules for putting spells in spell books is legal, doesn't even need you to be a caster, just need to make a spell craft check." is not true. You not only have to be a spellcaster, you have to be a wizard, and even then you can only add spells to your own spellbook, not someone else's.
Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook
Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. A wizard can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard spell lists.
Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll: A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until one week has passed. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique spells might cost significantly more.
Independent Research: A wizard can also research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one. The cost to research a new spell, and the time required, are left up to GM discretion, but it should probably take at least 1 week and cost at least 1,000 gp per level of the spell to be researched. This should also require a number of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks.
Notice in each case it is talking about a wizard adding a spell to his own spellbook? Not so "a spellbook" just to "his spellbook".
Then there is the section titled:
Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook
which has only one line in the first paragraph -
Once a wizard understands a new spell, he can record it into his spellbook.
Notice it does not say: "Once a wizard understands a new spell, he can record it into a spellbook." it says "...into his spellbook."
Currently there are no rules (that I know of) in PFS which allow a book-using spell caster (Wizard/Magis/Alchemist/Arcanist) to create a spellbook for someone else, nor to add new spells to someone else's spellbook.
I really wish there were. I have several characters that would like to do this - heck, two of my PCs took a level dip into Wizard just to be able to do it!
So until we get rules added for HOW to do this, the standard in PFS is that we can not do it. It's like my Alchemist can create poisons. He can even do this in the middle of an adventure. But he can not create poisons for another character that that character can add to his inventory (ITS), even if that other PC provides the money to make them. Even if the other PC can use them. (though they could use them during the adventure).
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Wow... ok. So because there is nothing specifically stating that characters can use the rules for writing into a spell book, outside of wizards, arcanists, alchemists, investigators, and magus, then no one can. In addition, because the arcane spells section specifically calls out ownership of the book being written into, they can not write spells into any book they do not personally own.
The last hope would be memorize page, but that specifically calls out wizards, so no one except wizards can use that spell to scribe into a book.
right.
It's like when several of us had "extra" spell books that we wanted to sell. There were no rules (at that time), no rulings, that covered HOW to do this in PFS. So (at that time) we couldn't do it.
Here's another example. Say a Fighter PC would like a dire bat mount, so during an adventure the PCs encounter Dire Bats and the Fighter "swings for subdual damage" and KOs one. Now he lugs it back to town and gets his friend (another PC) to train it as a mount. Presto! Dire Bat Mount! Add it to my ITS! ... ah, except there are no rules that would allow him to do that. And indeed, there are many rules that seem to imply that he can't.
What are your thoughts on using UMD to emulate the "spellbook" class feature and using a blessed book
And would a non wizard need to pay the material cost?
I think Tindalen's example is pretty good.
Also is this very far off from a NPC being compelled to cast make whole on a PC's gear?
Say for example PC fighter "George" had his +2 shield sundered last game.
The shield would require a make whole at caster level 12 to fix, not something likely to happen in society play, nor something that can be purchased.
What would happen if PC wizard "Ben" dominates an NPC 12th level cleric and has it memorize make whole the next day?
I know I would allow it to work, would you?
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As a friend pointed out to me, PFS is a set of inclusive rules, if the rules are not included allowing you to do something, you can not do it. So only those who have something that specifically allows them to scribe spells into a spell book are allowed to scribe spells into a spell book.I think yall are looking at it wrong.
Can a non-caster get spells put in a spellbook - sure. Just buy the pages out of some spellbook... the PRICE is the scribe and NPC access cost. How do I know? When Wizards sell their books, they sell for half that basic price. It's covered by the CRB.
Now can they Learn it? Cast spells?
that's another issue...In my example(first post) you are NOT scribing the spell - you are outright buying another's spellbook (pages). Thus using it would involve the rules for using another's spellbook. That is universal for ALL characters, non-spellcaster's included. The ONLY wiggle is you may have to pay an extra 15gp for the spellbook to claim that's the only spell in the book (thus it's a "whole" item). Buying partial things like only 5 arrows tends to be a sticky point in PFS.
There's no cost difference between buying a book (15gp) and having a wizard scribe in it for you, or buying a spellbook with that spell in it. It's only the following spells where you save the 15gp for the book. So if you have the book it's not a factor (for me as a GM) so long as you have the cash and time (aka in between scenarios).
there are a number of things in this post that a PC in PFS cannot do...
- "... you are outright buying another's spellbook (pages). " a PC can't do this in PFS (there are currently no rules for it, and spellbook pages do not appear on any item list or Chronicle).
- "...Thus using it would involve the rules for using another's spellbook...." are you talking about a Wizard preparing spells from a borrowed spellbook?
-"... That is universal for ALL characters, non-spellcaster's included."
I guess not. Wait, WHAT rules for non-spellcaster's using a another's spellbook? Where are there any rules for that?
-" ... The ONLY wiggle is you may have to pay an extra 15gp for the spellbook to claim that's the only spell in the book (thus it's a "whole" item)." I do not even understand what you are trying to say here... please expand on this statement.
"...Buying partial things like only 5 arrows tends to be a sticky point in PFS." I do not understand how this relates to spellbooks... are you saying buying part of a spellbook? Like buying part of a sword?
"There's no cost difference between buying a book (15gp) and having a wizard scribe in it for you,..." which we currently can't do in PFS.
"...or buying a spellbook with that spell in it." Which we also can't do in PFS...
"It's only the following spells where you save the 15gp for the book. So if you have the book it's not a factor (for me as a GM) so long as you have the cash and time (aka in between scenarios)." ??? what??? again, I do not even understand what you are trying to say here... please expand on this statement.
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I agree it's close (in PFS you sell at half what you paid). But paying the scribe and access cost covers both activities and makes them equivalent so nobody will argue with paying that (higher) cost. Since you ARE getting it from an NPC caster the scribe and access cost are appropriate...I think yall are looking at it wrong.
Can a non-caster get spells put in a spellbook - sure. Just buy the pages out of some spellbook... the PRICE is the scribe and NPC access cost. How do I know? When Wizards sell their books, they sell for half that basic price. It's covered by the CRB.
Now can they Learn it? Cast spells?
that's another issue...{bolding mine}
in PFS, this is not actually the way it works. But that is another issue, and has been addressed in other threads...
??? you have lost me completely here. I don't even understand what you are trying to say...
on a side note, this is the internet, so clearly the statement "...so nobody will argue..." is clearly not true!
;)
There are example spell books in Ultimate Magic, but they do not appear in the Additional Resources.
Are there any legal sources for "preconstructed" spellbooks?
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Unchained Rogue, Minor or Major Magic talent combined with Bookish Rogue from ACG.
Wait, WHAT rules for non-spellcaster's using a another's spellbook? Where are there any rules for that?
ah! Thanks!
ok, yes, there are specific abilities and magic items that allow a PC to use a spellbook. I just don't see how this "...That is universal for ALL characters, non-spellcaster's included..." applies to scribing/adding spells to a spellbook.
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There is at least one chronicle with one of those preconstructed spell books available for purchase. Outside of that, no.is it listed by name/cost (the name from U.M.)? Is it from an AP or Mod or Scenario?
I'm going to try to walk a line here and answer your question without promoting "chronicle fishing."
I have played a scenario where the chronicle had a spellbook from Ultimate Magic (with preparation ritual) listed as a purchasable item.
This doesn't necessarily help with the whole "non-spellcasters using a spellbook" issue as there are still no mechanics for that character to add to the spells present in the book when she buys it.
By Stephen's reading above, most of the non ritual versions of the spellbooks in Ultimate Magic would be legal.