Question reguarding Enlarge person and permenancy.


Rules Questions


OK my question is if you use Enlarge person on a character that is permanently a size category larger due to an Enlarge person coupled with a permanency spell would they go up another size category or would the spell fizzle?

I know that size bonus's don't stack but this question came up first due to a hypothetical build of a bloodrager that was permanently enlarged then while bloodraging used his demonic bloodline to go up another category. so the question came up as to if it would work due to the enlarge person being permanent

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Permanency only alters the duration, nothing else. So he's still under the effects of enlarge person (albeit a very long-lasting version).

Even if size-altering effects stacked, anything that mimics enlarge person specifically wouldn't stack with anything else that mimics enlarge person (including the spell itself).


Ok well that answers that question. I think where the confusion came into being was the permanency, if it basically altered his trait or if it stayed as a spell that just never wore off.


You'd be trying to stack enlarge person with enlarge person. Permanency doesn't change that at all.


Which is where i believe the confusion game in as to weather the permanency changed the trait or it made the spell just never wear off. Which as Kalindlara stated they are still under the effects which cleared up the confusion for me so when i talk to the group again i will explain that. I feel the person that was trying to do it was wanting to get to the Gargantuan Size to basically wrestle dragons.


He can still wrestle dragons. Grapple doesn't have a size restriction in Pathfinder as it did in 3.5.

Examples:

Bull Rush wrote:

You can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack. You can only bull rush an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you.[/url]

Overrun wrote:
As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square. You can only overrun an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you.
Trip wrote:
You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you.

You will notice that grapple decidedly lacks that restriction from it's description.

Grapple wrote:
As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition (see the Appendices). If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).


Increasing his size would make his CMB better, but it doesn't stop him from trying to wrestle dragons.


This Topic Coupled with another post I made Created a new Question for me.

Say someone is playing a Summoner with a huge Eidolon, and they cast Enlarge person on it and a Sorcerer/Wizard casts permanency on the Enlarge person. Does that permanently make the Eidolon Gargantuan even if its killed or banished? or would those break both effects?


The same person has to cast both spells with permanency.

As well, enlarge person requires a humanoid target which an eidolon is not. Unless I'm forgetting a special ability that lets a summoner cast spells on his eidolon that ignore requirements like share spell for druids and their animal companion.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You can't have size-increasing effects and polymorph effects simultaneously. As far as I know, when you cast one while under the effect of another, you decide which one takes precedent.

What I want to know is if this will dispel your permanent enlarge person spell, or merely suppress it until the shorter duration effect ends.


Quote:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

So enlarge person isn't a polymorph spell so it doesn't fall under the "only one spell at a time". It does fall under the "other spells that change your size have no effect" though.

So, I believe the answer is if you have a permanent enlarge person effect on your and are polymorphed you would choose to allow the spell to affect you, in which case enlarge person is suppressed for the duration of the other spell.


Eidolons get share spells at level 1, but Huge evolution requires level 13 - so a Gargantuan eidolon needs the same level. Permanent enlarge person requires only wizard level 9 / sorcerer level 10, so that's a non-issue here.

As far as I know, then you can only add a single effect increasing the effective size of the weapons. Strong Jaw would be quite brutal - especially for slams, which would increase from 4d6 to 8d6.

Such a big companion has some practical downsides though...

About the death question: I think a permanent spell sticks despite death, like a curse or level drain. A 'dead' eidolon gets back half of its hit points next day, but there I don't see any text indicating effects on it are removed.


Claxon wrote:

The same person has to cast both spells with permanency.

As well, enlarge person requires a humanoid target which an eidolon is not. Unless I'm forgetting a special ability that lets a summoner cast spells on his eidolon that ignore requirements like share spell for druids and their animal companion.

Eidolon Share Spells wrote:

Share Spells (Ex)

The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.

This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells.


SheepishEidolon wrote:
Such a big companion has some practical downsides though...

Summon Eidolon

Even better than that, once you get to level 9 (although the spell still has some, if very limited, value).

Advanced Race Guide Alternate FCB for Elf Summoner wrote:
The amount of time the summoner must spend to summon his eidolon is reduced by 1 round, to a minimum of 1 round.


Yeah, it partially solves the problem. You will still have issues with narrow caves and most buildings, but at least you can get back your eidolon fast.

Given that the permanency caster also has to cast the other spell, I guess a scroll and enough UMD is the best option here.


So in Effect if I was to make a Huge Bipedal reptile like Eidolon, and then cast Enlarge person on it, Making it a Gargantuan Bipedal Reptile like Eidolon with Permanency scroll on the enlarge person, i could effectively Have a slightly Smaller Godzilla as my permanent Eidolon correct?

Which is where i was kinda going with that.


Enlarge Person requires the target to be a humanoid. I don't think it would qualify as a legal target.


Texas Snyper wrote:
Enlarge Person requires the target to be a humanoid. I don't think it would qualify as a legal target.

Not a problem in this case.

Quote:

Share Spells (Ex)

The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.

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