So the DM of a upcoming campaign has made the observation of a potential issue.
So if i duel wielded pistols using empty quiver style and used used the two weapon fighting feat we have a conflict of penalties.
Empty quiver considers it a light mace: TWF says it at a -2 penalty.
One Handed Pistols are at a -4.
Empty quiver style says you can swap between attacks, so how would this work.
If i do a melee attack is it at a -2 until i do a ranged attack? Always at a -4? or is it a -2 while melee and -4 while ranged?
or is it a -2 while melee and -4 while ranged?
Strict reading implies this.
Strict reading implies this.or is it a -2 while melee and -4 while ranged?
That doesn't seem correct either, because in a given round you could choose to use 1 of them as a one-handed ranged pistol, and the other as a melee light mace. In this instance you would only take a -2 penalty as for that round you have a 1-handed weapon, and light weapon.
The way I read is this:
If you choose to incur only a -2 penalty, that means that you may only treat 1 of your two pistols as a pistol for that round. You've made the decision that you WILL NOT use BOTH of them a ranged pistols.
Its the same as if you had TWF and quick draw and were wielding a one-handed weapon and a dagger, while having another one-handed weapon in a sheath.
You cant start off by attacking with a -2 penalty and then decide to drop the dagger for the 2nd two-handed weapon to change the penalty, you've already decided what your attacks are going to be. This is highlighted in the following FAQ ruling.
Yes. Basically, you only incur TWF penalties if you are trying to get an extra attack per round.
Let's assume you're a 6th-level fighter (BAB +6/+1) holding a longsword in one hand and a light mace in the other. Your possible full attack combinations without using two-weapon fighting are:
(A) longsword at +6, longsword +1
(B) mace +6, mace +1
(C) longsword +6, mace +1
(D) mace +6, longsword +1
All of these combinations result in you making exactly two attacks, one at +6 and one at +1. You're not getting any extra attacks, therefore you're not using the two-weapon fighting rule, and therefore you're not taking any two-weapon fighting penalties.
If you have Quick Draw, you could even start the round wielding only one weapon, make your main attack with it, draw the second weapon as a free action after your first attack, and use that second weapon to make your iterative attack (an "iterative attack" is an informal term meaning "extra attacks you get from having a high BAB"). As long as you're properly using the BAB values for your iterative attacks, and as long as you're not exceeding the number of attacks per round granted by your BAB, you are not considered to be using two-weapon fighting, and therefore do not take any of the penalties for two-weapon fighting.
The two-weapon fighting option in the Core Rulebook specifically refers to getting an extra attack for using a second weapon in your offhand. In the above four examples, there is no extra attack, therefore you're not using two-weapon fighting.
Using the longsword/mace example, if you use two-weapon fighting you actually have fewer options than if you aren't. Your options are (ignoring the primary/off hand penalties):
(A') primary longsword at +6, primary longsword at +1, off hand mace at +6
(B') primary mace at +6, primary mace at +1, off hand longsword at +6
In other words, once you decide you're using two-weapon fighting to get that extra attack on your turn (which you have to decide before you take any attacks on your turn), that decision locks you in to the format of "my primary weapon gets my main attack and my iterative attack, and my off hand weapon only gets the extra attack, and I apply two-weapon fighting penalties."
posted November 2011 | back to top
In the same way, once you've decided your getting extra attacks with TWF, your locked into which weapons your able to use. You can't switch it up mid way. Thus you can't part way through your sequence change how your weapons are treated either for the purposes of penalties.
I know its not a direct ruling, but its saying pretty much the same thing, which is "You choose how and what weapons you are using before you attack, and once you've made that choice you must do it that way."