How do you handle a Silent / Minor / Major / Permanent Image of a creature that is buffed with Mirror Image?


Rules Questions


So context:

Our group fought a spellcaster who created a Permanent Image of himself buffed with all the swirling magical effects he was actually buffed with. Among these was very obviously Mirror Image.

So here appears an Permanent Image of an NPC who is buffed with 8 Mirror Images.

When a PC interacts with the Permanent Image, does he immediately get a will save to determine that it is a Permanent Image, or does the PC just think "Oh shucks, my weapon didn't hit anything because I probably missed and hit an image instead"?

We played it as follows:

  • PC attacks, it's a hit against creature AC, roll percent to determine if the PC hit an image or the monster, the PC hits an image, Permanent Image modified to drop one fake Mirror Image as if the attack had missed.
  • PC attacks, it's a hit against creature AC, roll percent to determine if the PC hit an image or the monster, the PC hits the monster, roll a will save behind the DM screen, succeed "Now you know the whole thing is an illusion" or fail and the Permanent Image modified to drop one fake Mirror Image as if the attack had missed.

I'm interested in RAW, but also RAI answers. How would you have played this, and if there is already a precedent for this, I'd like to know.

Amendment to my question: What if it was a Projected Image with the actual spell Mirror Image on top of it? Do you only get a save when you avoid the mirror images? or do you get a save regardless just for being near it and fighting it even though you may not have landed hits?

Thanks!


I believe you ran it very well. I would do it the exact same way. IMHO, you followed both RAW and RAI.


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So this would depend heavily on a lot of things we don't know.

Suffice it to say, generally speaking interacting with an illusion always grants a save against it.

So, if the illusion is attacked it counts as interacting, and the person doing so should get a save.

If the person who cast the spell isn't there concentrating to have it react appropriately, it can't actually move or do anything so it will become very obvious rather quickly that it is an illusion.

Another problem is establishing what the AC of the illusion should be. Well not problem, it's just not going to be what you want to hear.

Quote:
A figment's AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.

They're pretty easy to hit. Size modifier for medium is 0.

Also, the mirror image isn't "real" and the illusion doesn't get to benefit from it. So there shouldn't be a roll at all for mirror image.

There is just an illusion which creates the image of a person, which also happens to be surrounded by other images of himself that looks like mirror image might be occurring.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Agreed with Claxon.

If you created (with Permanent Image) a crowd of illusionary people and struck one, made a will save, and disbelieved, I would say that you realize the whole crowd is a figment.

Same thing for this.

Quote:


A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

You would see a figment outline over the whole display and realize that it is all fake.


Ah yes, Claxon is absolutely right that the AC of the image is reduced (it doesn't get bonuses based on what the creature has).


I would rule you couldn't cast spells on or create a Permanent Image of a creature with spells on it. Sure, you could add some visual components to it, as per the spell description, but these additional effects wouldn't qualify the Permanent Image to receive the actual benefits of any spells.

Thus, the presence of these fake mirror images would have no impact on a creature's ability to interact with and disbelieve the Permanent Image.


icantfallasleep wrote:

So context:

Our group fought a spellcaster who created a Permanent Image of himself buffed with all the swirling magical effects he was actually buffed with. Among these was very obviously Mirror Image.

So here appears an Permanent Image of an NPC who is buffed with 8 Mirror Images.

When a PC interacts with the Permanent Image, does he immediately get a will save to determine that it is a Permanent Image, or does the PC just think "Oh shucks, my weapon didn't hit anything because I probably missed and hit an image instead"?

We played it as follows:

  • PC attacks, it's a hit against creature AC, roll percent to determine if the PC hit an image or the monster, the PC hits an image, Permanent Image modified to drop one fake Mirror Image as if the attack had missed.
  • PC attacks, it's a hit against creature AC, roll percent to determine if the PC hit an image or the monster, the PC hits the monster, roll a will save behind the DM screen, succeed "Now you know the whole thing is an illusion" or fail and the Permanent Image modified to drop one fake Mirror Image as if the attack had missed.

I'm interested in RAW, but also RAI answers. How would you have played this, and if there is already a precedent for this, I'd like to know.

Amendment to my question: What if it was a Projected Image with the actual spell Mirror Image on top of it? Do you only get a save when you avoid the mirror images? or do you get a save regardless just for being near it and fighting it even though you may not have landed hits?

Thanks!

Programmed Image

"This spell functions like silent image, except that this spell's figment activates when a specific condition occurs."
"Duration permanent until triggered, then 1 round/level"
Silent Image
"This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you."

1) You only get a single creature. To get multiple, i.e. mirror image effect, you need a different spell.

2) The image cannot change. Reacting to stimuli is beyond its ability. If you had multiple images, they would not react as mirror image would. The "mirror" would not "pop" if you hit it.

3) It is programmed. It performs the same routine over and over. If you study it, you get your save chance. If you fight it, you get your save chance. Given it's AC, it is easy to hit, and hitting, it does not change...no blood and guts spilling, no wounds, etc. It fails to track your position as you move, again cluing you in.

As to Project Image, you have:
"You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to create a quasi-real, illusory version of yourself."
"any spell you cast whose range is touch or greater can originate from the projected image instead of from you."
Mirror Image
"Range personal"

Project Image only copies you, not any extra from Mirror Image.
You cannot cast Mirror Image on the projected image.

Summing up:
RAW: 1) Can't do what was done without a new spell.
2) Spell does not react as M.I., so not usable as M.I.
3) Spell is easy hit & easy detect as illusion
and for Project Image
4) Does not work that way, & can't do M.I. on it.

RAI: Cool concept. GM fiat it works however you want.

/cevah

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