wertyou2 |
They first TPK'd at the zombies in the carriage, and again at the winter portal. I'm worried that this will keep happening, so I'm debating having them come back in at level 3 and then slowing character advancement later on if I feel it's gotten too easy. They're still fairly new to Pathfinder, having only played a level long homebrew and part 4 of Carrion Crown before, and this seems like a fairly difficult AP.
Should I just keep it all as it is and hope for the best, or should I try my above plan? Because I certainly don't like dealing with TPKs, and they all get disheartened by their happening. Plus, I'd like to try and keep a constant party composition once the Black Rider event occurs.
Tangent101 |
RoW is (at least the first part) one of the tougher APs, due in part to the environmental rules.
I'd say that starting them at 2nd or 3rd level and letting them gain XPs to reach that level may be the right thing to do.
You might also consider giving them a 25-point build, seeing they are new. If they start breezing through encounters later on, you can rectify that just by adding +1 to each stat for the monsters and opponents they face (as that is basically a 25-point build).
Tybid |
I actually called off Reign of Winter and tried Shattered Star when I realized that my group was almost certainly going to TPK at the cabin. It's crazy hard, especially if you adhere to the cold rules.
Are they currently about to bring in new characters due to the TPK at the Winter Portal?
If so I would have this new group be a team of heroes from the north (other side of the portal) who stumble onto the scene and come through just in time to encounter the Rider / Get the mantle and see the fate of the group that tried to stop things in Taldor beginning at Level 3 to give them a leg up.
Then you have the benefit of being able to let them make characters who are prepared for northern adventure. It also, I suppose raises the problem of them knowing more about the area they are traveling to.
If I were running at that point I would sit down and say, "Ok, here are some classes and other stuff that's going to make this a lot easier."
A fire domain druid.
(Anything that can do consistent fire damage. An alchemist for example.)
All armed with cold iron weapons + ranged weapons with cold iron ammunition. Actually that might not be as important later on...
Potions of Feather Step
A wand of Endure Elements
A prevalence of characters with cold resistance of some type.
Tundra Child regional trait if no cold resistance.
Maybe a witch hunter who is working on getting feats especially aimed at making him/her great at killing witches... Disruptive / Spellbreaker etc.
All that kinda stuff.
I wish you luck. Reign of Winter is tough.
wertyou2 |
Current new party make up is a pyrokineticist (though his attendance is up in the air at the moment), an arctic druid, a magus who took a level in sorcerer (elemental bloodline) so he could convert all his shocking grasps to flaming grasps (I may or may not have given him this idea), a swashbuckler, and a two-weapon warrior fighter.
The environment actually hasn't been any problem. It's possible I misunderstood the cold-weather rules, but the CRB refers to "unprotected" characters. They all had cold-weather gear, so while the AP says they just get a +5 bonus to the fort saves, it then later says that in Irrisen they make fort saves on the hour instead of 10 minutes. I basically just made it so in Taldor they don't make the saves, and in Irrisen they make it on the hour unless they have endure elements, in which case not at all. I'm hoping that's the right way to do it.
Tybid |
I believe with the cold weather gear you make the saves every hour instead of every 10 minutes. Also every time they make a save the DC goes up by 1.
When they fail the first save they become fatigued and take non lethal and have to rest (build a fire) to get rid of that and if they keep going they run the chance of becoming exhausted.
Ultimately it's probably just best to stick with the way you've been doing it.
Of course if they have cold resistance they don't have to make a check at all. (Something I didn't want to accept when I ran it. Things didn't go well.)
Llyr the Scoundrel |
I have to admit, I'm a bit relieved to hear that my group isn't the only one having issues with this module. I'm a player in a small group that started this up, we're near the end of what seems to be the next chapter of this first module from where you're at... and by Cthulhu's tentacles, are we having a pain of every single encounter!
Our own group consists of a Cleric of Cayden Cailean, a Witch, a Ranger with the Hooded Champion archetype, a Rogue, and a Bloodrager. We're all fairly well built individually... but I can honestly say it's mostly because our Cleric has selective channeling and extra channeling for feats that we've survive most encounters. It feels as though one out of every three encounters is built very specifically to prevent the heroes from even attacking their adversary. Between the environmental conditions, racial abilities that don't provoke attacks of opportunity, and the ability to -perfectly- set ambushes that simply can't be avoided, it's a harrowing grind that has passed "frustrating" and is quickly approaching "unenjoyable game play".
I can say that while in most campaigns it feels as though the ranged attacker is an afterthought, his is VITAL in this campaign so far. The Bloodrager (controlled by me) is thwarted at every turn from even being able to reach his opponent, while the Ranger is the one who keeps us alive by reaching the many attackers who simply cannot be approached by any of our melee fighters or even our Witch as they consistently stay out of reach of her spells. I find this personally upsetting because I've often played the archer in many of our past groups and been made inconsequential, but this time I wanted to play something with a bit more punch and now I'm unable to even act in about half the conflicts.
... of course, we also have what I would characterize as an "adversarial game master", the sort who isn't looking to tell a good story but to see if he can't at least knock out one character in every fight. He might be manipulating every encounter to his best tactical advantage beyond what the book is offering without fudging numbers.
Luna eladrin |
Well things get a bit easier after a while. But yes, an archer is essential. My husband plays an archer in this campaign and has managed to save the day a couple of times. The other essential character in my group is my daughter, who plays a sorcerer with a lot of fire-based spells. She is really playing havoc with my monsters :-)
A druid can also be very useful. It is the third strong character in my group.
And even though they have made these characters, this is still a tough campaign for them.
electriccatnd |
I got fairly lucky here as well in that my PCs either had traits, racial or spells to get them past the just overall base cold effects. If anything my biggest thing would be to steer your players toward the players guide and open up traits. The cold should be something that is more of just a slight resource drain on the party than anything.
Killer Power |
What my player helped a lot were Hero Points!
After they realized, that RoW can be a bit hard sometimes they try to save two points so that they can cheat death...
True, this doesn't prevent a TPK in most cases, but helps with character deaths (especially up to a point where Raise Dead or something similiar is available).
Deadly secret |
Well things get a bit easier after a while. But yes, an archer is essential. My husband plays an archer in this campaign and has managed to save the day a couple of times. The other essential character in my group is my daughter, who plays a sorcerer with a lot of fire-based spells. She is really playing havoc with my monsters :-)
A druid can also be very useful. It is the third strong character in my group.
And even though they have made these characters, this is still a tough campaign for them.
Don't forget though that it is snowing most the time and they take a -4 to ranged attacks and perception to see in distance.
Solomani |
As part of my prep to run the entire AP I have read pretty much every post related to gameplay/DM info. I see a lot of "its too hard" or "its too easy". Reading these in a bit more detail here are my observations:
"Too Hard"
It seems like many PC groups just rush in. If the party does that then a TPK is probably a good lesson. For example, my group scouted out the bandit encampment and decided it would be suicide to do a frontal assault. Instead, they deceived the bandits. By a fluke one of the players is a frost elf and he had charmed/dominated (long story) a yeti from the random encounters. He turned up and demanded the bandits hand over the "princess" by order of Teb Knotten. The bandits were "Whatever, take her". So they were able to get the noble without doing an assault and retreated.
When they came back the next day the bandits were either dead or scattered as Teb was not amused.
"Too Easy"
The dragon comes up in particular as too easy, the examples given are "the party will just climb up the side and surprise him". Well, the dragon has blindsense and would sense them coming almost as soon as they started climbing. That is a setup for a (well-earned) TPK or defeat.
Ultimately, teach your players to think about what they are doing, they cant solve everything by brute force. Also, the encounters need to be adjusted by the GM for his particular group. Dont play as written if you know (or even suspect) it will be a anticlimtic - and you dont want that.
YMMV.