Let's discuss Gestalt play.

[Avaricious]

About a month ago, I concluded Council of Thieves with a two-player party, where I enabled Gestalt options from 3.5's UA. PC1 was an Oracle/Slayer, and PC2 was a Paladin Rogue, selections geared towards versatility and covering bases, but I had noticed that the Paladin was slightly more effective in DPS during combat. Not to poke fun or denigrate Council of Thieves, but I feel that AP was the lowest-threat of the series I had encountered thus far. Arcane was not represented at all in the party, but we managed just fine. It gave me a practical viewpoint on how Gestalts worked out. The adventure was skewed to our favor in that the XP was only split 2 ways, so the duo ramped up the progression very swiftly, particularly in that we thematically went the stealth approach with two characters able to sneak competently.

It may lead to a critical gap in duo-sized campaigns, but would it be more optimal to Gestalt two similarly-themed classes for the Synergy? Not to abuse mechanics like multiple Sneak Attacks -which I believe would not stack because they are same exact class feature and IIRC UA rules that identical features do not, but ones that benefit the same category.

Such as the combination of a Swashbuckler and a Rogue (unchained) in kicking ass with Finesse weapons, or an Arcanist's exploits parralleling the extra feats and school specialization of a Wizard versus an oddball build that would just seek to combine best HP, Skill, BAB, and Saves. It is nice to be a 9-Tier caster and full BAB combatant, but in Action Economy one would usually be only using half their offensive potential in a given round unless utilizing Quicken Spell.

Within that same vein, Arcanist/Sorcerer may be just as viable in that it provides Spell Spam endurance (I think in an Arcanist/Wizard they would share the same books and go off the Wizard spell progression and thus only receive one source of spells versus two -as in only 4 versus 10 or more 9-level spells ^_^) with the Arcanist Exploits bleeding synergistic benefits into the Sorcerer's vast magazine of spells, but in fighting higher-CR enemies, every boost to your DC feels like it matters more than sheer volume of attacks. Yes spam is more effects in the long run, but one may not survive to that point versus a higher probability of hitting first,hard, and last.

Pathfinder has a lot of variety to create using this 3.5 fun addition. It may not be effective, but a Druid/Summoner would damn near be a one-player party, and it would be hilarious to witness a Gunslinger (Musket Master)/Wizard (Spellslinger) combo. "One shot -and attached nuke- is all I need."

TL;DR what are your experiences, opinions, and analysis on Gestalt and where it's true potential really directs?

[Thaliak]

You might be interested in Darth Stabber's Handy Gestalt Handbook. Because of the action economy issues you describe, he recommends that players choose an active class that provides actions (e.g., spells) and a passive class that provides other benefits (skill points, saves, feats, or class abilities) to cover weaknesses or strengthen the active class's roles.

When I build gestalt characters, I try to pick a role and two classes that will help me fill it. For example, I might play a Master Summoner/Bard so I can summon swarms of monsters, then bolster their attack rolls with the Bard's Inspire Courage. Alternately, I might play a Druid/Ranger to boost my combat effectiveness in Wild Shape, a Mesmerist/Kitsune Sorcerer to make my enchantments ridiculously hard to resist, or a Wizard/Rogue with options from both sides that grant initiative boosts so I'm guaranteed to go first.

Alternately, I might devote one class to combat and one class to the other aspects of the game. For example, I could build a Psychic//Psychic Investigator and put offensive spells on the Psychic side and divination or buff spells on the Investigator side. Both approaches can work.

I like gestalt games for allowing me to explore classes I would never play normally. I generally want several options in combat and 8-12 skill points a level, so I'll rarely play fighters or gunslingers in a normal campaign. In gestalt, I'll at least look at them.

[Avoron]

For me, action economy is one of the biggest mechanical issues. Don't pick two classes that need standard actions for spellcasting, or two classes that need swift actions for all their combat abilities. Things like Druid/Barbarian and Alchemist/Paladin make for such powerful combatants because they can use all of their best class features at the same time.

[Avaricious]

Shame the guide isn't more fleshed out. Combo-ing Active/Passive pairings is intrinsic when one is chasing synergistic themes already but avoids some of the redundancy of the latter.

In PF, I think the greatest advantage over 3.5 for Gestalt and avoiding redundancy bumps (and thus having the better of the two, but not both) is the Archetype feature. Example given is the Druid/Ranger combo mentioned earlier in the thread. The redundant features are their Nature/Hunter's Bond (unless the DM plans to give them TWO Animal Companions ^_^), Wild Empathy, and Wilderness Stride. Using archetypes one can avoid having to give that class feature up in the Gestalt and gain the one copy and the class feature traded in at the same time, deliciously cheesy.

The resulting character would be very fluffy/thematic (Nature Squared!) and mechanically powerful... a beast with a combat discipline, and still have two separate spell trees that both support its role.

Another on-the-fly idea would be Bard (Arcane Duelist)/Fighter (Dervish of Dawn+Ustalavic Duelist). Very combative using a Rapier+Mithral Breastplate combination but still able to cast Armored and still mooch those Duelists' benefits. As to how would one justify an Ethnically Ustalavic worshipper of Sarenrae with a penchance of rapiers over scimitars (or just gripping a scimitar with a fencer's style a la pistol grip lol) in the land of eternal moodiness, good luck... "You see, my Mother was from Katapesh..."

Arcanist (Blade Adept)/Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) with VMC of Magus to supplement the Blade Adept concept would be pretty cool too. Gestalt + VMC = wee! Only thing missing is Mythic with Dual Path selected.

This is what happens with too much free time spent on my friend's gift of Hero Lab.

Anyone else find combos just as fun? Not necessarily Optimized and Uber, but very thematically and mechanically sound. A Crunchy exterior of choco with Fluffy caramel within... now I'm hungry for snackies.

[Josh-o-Lantern]

I rather prefer Gestalt over the norm due to seeing a wide variety of character builds and roleplaying options. My parties so far consist of the same group of players for the last 10 years and we don't tend to go wild with it. Sure someone will try SAY they are building a supernova made flesh, but no one has yet to play it xD

I've been running Rise of the Runelords with a 3 man team of Aasimars of Sarenrae and it's been a blast. Paladin Sacred Shield / Tower Shield Specialist Fight, Monk/Inquisitor and a Warpriest/Rogue. Good times are had by all!