entangle spell timing for saving throws

[Tommaso Gollini]

hi there
the wording i need to clarify is this
"This spell causes tall grass, weeds, and other plants to wrap around creatures in the area of effect or those that enter the area. Creatures that fail their save gain the entangled condition. Creatures that make their save can move as normal, but those that remain in the area must save again at the end of your turn. Creatures that move into the area must save immediately."

so lets say i am the druid and my opponents are 4 orcs
initiative starts, i am aware of the orcs (i set up an ambush) they fail the perception check so are surprised
i can act (1 standard action) and cast the spell
they all roll ST. since they cant move (are surprised) at the end of my turn they need to save again ?

let's say they arent surprised, i am first anyway, cast the spell and it goes off
they need to save the first time as per spell descriptor, and then a second time in the same round again, since they cannot possibly move out of it before i end my turn ?

the mechanics after the first turn is clear enough. who is in the effect radius at the end of my turn rolls the ST (as anyone that enters).
but the first turn disconcert me

thanks for the input

[Ravingdork]

If they can't move out of the area, before the end of your next turn, then yes, they would have to make two saves (though I wouldn't bother for those already captured).

That's one of the reasons why it is such a popular spell.

[Tommaso Gollini]

so not the SAME turn when i cast, in that first turn they have to do just 1 ST, free (and eventually move in their next action, whenever it happens if not AFTER caster following round) or entangled.
not twice.
that is not a great wording toh...

[Ravingdork]

The only times they need to save are when they are in the area at the time of casting, and again at the end of each of your turns.

[Tommaso Gollini]

end of my turns AFTER the turn in wich i cast it, obviously.

[Ravingdork]

I suspect that, that is the intent, yes.

However, the strict reading of it is no, they must make two saves in that round.

[Tommaso Gollini]

ok, you agree with my reading (and i agree with your opinion, it's laughable to use the wording as it stands, that means 2 st for sure in a single round for the same effect)

[Ravingdork]

Tommaso Gollini wrote:

ok, you agree with my reading (and i agree with your opinion, it's laughable to use the wording as it stands, that means 2 st for sure in a single round for the same effect)

I once had a GM hit us with four overlapping entangle spells. He argued that we had to make four saves each, as though we could somehow get more entangled than entangled.

I can't imagine how bad it might have been if it had been eight saves. :P

[Crimeo]

According to strictly how it is written, they have to save when the spell hits them, AND at the end of the same turn you cast the spell on.

So yes, under normal circumstances, unless they had a readied action or something weird, they would have no way to move out of the area in time to avoid an almost automatic second save.

You should expect any GM to house rule it to work differently (whether they realize it or not), but that's what it says.

[Cevah]

There are some abilities that allow movement on another's turn. If they have this, they could make the first save as it is cast, use that special ability, and be out of the area before the second save happens.

/cevah

[Tommaso Gollini]

can you please tell me the names of those abilities cevah ?
thanks

[Cevah]

Combat Patrol
Sidestep
Following Step
Step Up

I am sure there are more.

/cevah

[Tommaso Gollini]

thanks cevah !