Reason to equip both Amulet of Mighty Fists, AND magic Gauntlets?


Rules Questions


I read that multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies.

I read that the amulet of mighty fists grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 on attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks and natural weapons. Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks.

I read that gauntlets modify unarmed strikes, and thus can be used by monks with their unarmed strikes.

My interpretation is that a monk CANNOT use a +5 amulet with a +5 gauntlet to get +10 to attack with unarmed strikes.

However, do melee weapon special abilities stack? Is there any reason to have both enchanted gauntlets, AND an amulet of mighty fists?

Scarab Sages

Gauntlets are weapons, not unarmed strikes. They do 1d3 damage period. They do not do damage as a monk's unarmed strike. There is no reason for a monk to ever wear gauntlets as a weapon.

Silver Crusade

Sanjiv would appear to be asking a different question: is it feasible to have, for example, a +5 amulet of mighty fists and +1 shocking, merciful gauntlets, such that the wearer would gain the benefits of the higher enhancement bonus as well as the special qualities? Or another combination could be a menacing, vicious AoMF and +2 flaming gauntlet.

What damage would the wearer do with a gauntlet attack? What if the wearer is a monk with higher unarmed damage than the gauntlet damage die?


@ Gauntlets != Unarmed strikes: Is that ruling settled yet, or is it still to be determined? If it's still determined, can this thread progress for the time-being *with the assumption* that gauntlets modify unarmed strikes? I don't have a problem putting an asterix on this thread, saying that it's findings are subject to change.

Otherwise, by RAW, I'd point to "Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage...with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack."

So by that wording, I don't punch a goblin with a gauntlet, I punch him with an unarmed strike, which the metal glove lets me modify to do lethal damage with.

And I read the "otherwise" portion of the quote to mean that nothing else about the unarmed strike, including damage output, is changed. This is supported by the damage of the gauntlet and the unarmed strike being identical in the table. It would be weird to read that portion and interpret it as "an attack with a gauntlet is a modified unarmed strike that is (otherwise) an unarmed attack, BUT it is also an attack with a weapon that is different from your unarmed strike." The latter part is unwritten, AND counters everything that was actually written in the rules, and so I cannot, without an official errata, give it credence.

If there's a better RAW or RAI interpretation out there, awesome. But otherwise, let's at least assume for the time being that gauntlets modify unarmed strikes. If we house-rule that in a home game or something, how would or could Amulets of Mighty Fists and masterwork gauntlets stack, according to the rest of the rule set? If the amulets and gloves overlapped, could one get a +5 Amulet of Mighty Fists, and stack it with a gauntlet which has a different elemental enhancement to each finger?


A gauntlet is a weapon, not an unarmed strike. So things that effect unarmed strikes don't do anything for a gauntlet.


Well yes, But
1. [assume] gauntlets affect unarmed strikes.
2. AmuletsOMF affect unarmed strikes.

Enchancement bonuses do not stack. The question is:
Do "melee weapon special abilities" and "enhancement bonuses stack?
on unarmed strikes.

----------------------------
EDIT: and is there somewhere it is said that unarmed strikes are NOT weapons? Looking at the text for weapon focus: "You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat". So to me it's pretty clear that unarmed strikes, even without the improved unarmed strike feat, are weapons. Also, if you read their description: "The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls." Ergo, if it hits like a weapon, and hurts like a weapon,

1. there needs to be some specific text telling me that "unarmed strikes are not considered weapons," for me to say that unarmed strikes are not weapons.

2. And while we're at it, I'd also need text telling me that "unarmed strikes with gauntlets are not considered unarmed strikes," because the description I read says exactly the opposite.

So yes, gauntlets are weapons. And they modify unarmed strikes, which are also weapons.

Edit: Looking at the Magic Weapon spell, "You can't cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike (instead, see magic fang). A monk's unarmed strike is considered a weapon, and thus it can be enhanced by this spell." Even if the issue might be ambiguous for non monks, for monks it seems certain. Unless you're going to argue that Amulet of Mighty Fists only applies to weapons and not unarmed strikes, and monk's unarmed strikes are weapons, and so monks can't used the Amulet of Mighty Fists... But this whole thing is getting ridiculous.


Note that the Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes throws in another weaponized option for fists...

The debate around gauntlets comes from the fact that they're a weapon that is "otherwise considered an unarmed attack" - so if you follow that rigidly, then...


I want to see the Amulet with the Throwing enchantment used.

/cevah


Imbicatus wrote:
Gauntlets are weapons, not unarmed strikes. They do 1d3 damage period. They do not do damage as a monk's unarmed strike. There is no reason for a monk to ever wear gauntlets as a weapon.

Well, besides the idea that you can use it for special materials before level 7 (and adamantine until whenever), and then kick for your unarmed strikes.

Of course, you would just grab a cestus instead. Gauntlets are in a pretty weird place, really.

Liberty's Edge

Sanjiv wrote:


My interpretation is that a monk CANNOT use a +5 amulet with a +5 gauntlet to get +10 to attack with unarmed strikes.

You can't do that in any case, the enhancement bonus overlap, don't stack. The total value of bonus you can pay is capped at +5 for the attack and damage bonus (bane and some or other effects will add to that but they are paid as a special ability) and a total of +10 between enhancement and special abilities.

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