Clarifying what checks have what traits and what type checks are considered to be.

[Jim John]

Here are a few questions.

Say you are doing a combat check with a weapon. Your combat check has the traits from your weapon but what else? Or what potentially else?

Also what type of check is this considered? Is it only combat or does the die your rolling also add or replace to the type of check.

Is a strength based combat check also considered a strength check and can cards that modify strength be used to buff?

[Theryon Stormrune]

Jim John wrote:

Here are a few questions.

Say you are doing a combat check with a weapon. Your combat check has the traits from your weapon but what else? Or what potentially else?

Also what type of check is this considered? Is it only combat or does the die your rolling also add or replace to the type of check.

Is a strength based combat check also considered a strength check and can cards that modify strength be used to buff?

If we're talking combat checks, the weapon does add its traits to the check. So it you have a bow, you're probably adding Ranged and Piercing. A long sword is Melee and Slashing. Some banes have special powers depending on traits of the combat check. Skeletons add difficulty when attacked with Piercing weapons.

Same with spells, they add the traits they list.

But it is all just a combat check (although ranged combat is possible). It isn't a strength-based combat check. If you're talking about the power to replace a strength die with another die, let's say wisdom die, no it does not become a wisdom check.

A strength based combat check is not a strength check. Combat usually refers to using a weapon and/or melee skill (strength based). A strength check is using your strength skill which is the strength die plus any strength skill feats you've taken.

[zeroth_hour]

Theryon Stormrune wrote:

A strength based combat check is not a strength check. Combat usually refers to using a weapon and/or melee skill (strength based). A strength check is using your strength skill which is the strength die plus any strength skill feats you've taken.

Uh, yeah it is. If you're saying you don't only roll your Strength die, then sure. But it is a Strength check for the purposes of things like the Belt of Giant Strength. Things like Standard Bearer, however, say non-combat Strength check.

[Parody]

The relevant rules are on page 12 of the WotR Rulebook; the example focuses on Melee: Strength. Note that the part about the Heavy Pick doesn't tell you what your skill and its dependent skill adds, just what the card adds. (The card has no way to know if you have the Melee skill or what skill it uses.)

[Zenarius]

If the spell or ability specifically states it adds the trait, then blessings or other effects that affect that trait can apply.

So for example imrijka using bow for combat check against monster. Bow says for your combat check *use* your dex or ranged skill. Imrijka is ranged : strength.

So it's a ranged, strength, combat check.

If she uses her ability to add d4 and add the magic and divine *traits* (this has to be specifically stated), then it becomes:

Ranged, strength, magic, divine, combat check

(Which at this stage means blessings that affect divine checks like abraxas will apply to give 2 dice. Cool huh?)

[Theryon Stormrune]

zeroth_hour wrote:

Jim John wrote:

Is a strength based combat check also considered a strength check and can cards that modify strength be used to buff?

Theryon Stormrune wrote:

A strength based combat check is not a strength check. Combat usually refers to using a weapon and/or melee skill (strength based). A strength check is using your strength skill which is the strength die plus any strength skill feats you've taken.

Uh, yeah it is. If you're saying you don't only roll your Strength die, then sure. But it is a Strength check for the purposes of things like the Belt of Giant Strength. Things like Standard Bearer, however, say non-combat Strength check.

What I was talking about is that if you're making a Strength check, it isn't the same as a combat check based on strength. Just like a Melee check isn't a combat check using melee.

[Jim John]

So if talking about a ranged, magic, fire, dex combat check, are all the adjectives prior to combat modifying check or all the adjectives prior to check modifying check? If a check has the fire trait it doesn't make any sense to talk about a "fire check". In other words is there a difference in the type of check and the traits a check has?

[skizzerz]

The type of check is the skill you are using, and Combat if it's a combat check. The traits on the card are added as traits on the check, but they do not modify what type of check it is.

Say you play a bow with the Magic, Piercing, Two-Handed, and Fire traits on a Combat check, and your character has Ranged: Dexterity +3. The check becomes a Dexterity Ranged Combat check (because you are using the Ranged skill, which means you're also using the Dexterity skill, and it's still a Combat check so you add that in too) and it has the Magic, Piercing, Two-Handed, and Fire traits.

[Hawkmoon269]

Keep this in mind too:

WotR Rulebook p12 wrote:

The skill you’re using for the check, and any skill referenced by that skill, are added as traits to the check.

So, traits are added to a check in 3 ways:

1. The skill you are using (and the skills it references).

2. The traits of the card you play to determine which skill you're using.

3. If a power tells you to add a trait.

And trait is also either Combat or non-Combat. If the card you are playing depends on a certain kind of check, it must meet all the criteria to play it. So, if a card says it adds to "non-Combat Strength checks" you check has to be both non-Combat and have the Strength trait (which, since we've not seen Strength as a trait on your card, would mean you have to be using your Strength skill). If a card says it adds to your Combat Melee check, you check has to be both Combat and have the Melee trait. You could get the Melee trait either from using that skill or from playing a card that has the Melee trait to determine the skill for the check. It doesn't matter if you check has other traits besides what the card you want to play cares about (i.e. If a card says it adds to "non-Combat Strength checks, that card doesn't care if your check has the Swashbuckling trait or not. And if it adds to your "Ranged Combat check" it doesn't care if your check also has the Melee trait.)

Usually, there isn't much distinction between a check that has a trait and a check that uses a skill. Some cards, like the spell Glibness, originally cared about which skill you are using, not just which traits (i.e. "that character's checks that use her Charisma skill), but in WotR they became worded more like blessings (i.e. "that character's Charisma checks).

So, if a card says "add to you check with the Swashbuckling trait" it could have also probably just said "add to your Swashbuckling check" and not made any difference.

So, the only thing that isn't definitely called a "trait" and is a "type" of check seems to be Combat or non-Combat.

WotR Rulebook p12 wrote:

Some cards and powers affect only specific types of checks, such as Dexterity checks, Acrobatics checks, or non-combat checks.

So, I'd say, the "type" of check is a determined by the traits it has and also whether it is Combat or non-Combat (since we can't go as far to call Combat and non-Combat traits).

[Michael Klaus]

Jim John wrote:

So if talking about a ranged, magic, fire, dex combat check, are all the adjectives prior to combat modifying check or all the adjectives prior to check modifying check? If a check has the fire trait it doesn't make any sense to talk about a "fire check". In other words is there a difference in the type of check and the traits a check has?

Short answer first: There is only a tiny difference: There is no chuch thing as a combat or a non-combat trait. They exist only as types. Including the traits into the type of the checks allowed for phrasings like "X (combat/non-combat) check" and "(combat/non-combat check with the X trait" to be completely interchangeable.

Basically the first question when approaching a check is not "what skill can I use?" but "what type, combat or non-combat, is that check?"

For a combat check you can either use your Strength or Melee skill or play exactly one weapon or spell with the Attack trait, since they have powers that start off with "For your combat check". This cards adds it traits to the check and therefore the type of the check. Often spells state explicitly that they add traits... some add, for unknown reasons, the traits that come from playing the card.

For a non-combat check you can play exactly one card that lets you replace the skill you should be using with another. This card (again) adds its trait to the check and therefore the type of the check. You do not add traits from the skill you replaced or any referenced by that skill. (Should be the obvious but added for completion.)

Then you can start to play cards and powers appropriate to the type (and therefore the used and referenced skills and all added traits) of the check that may state explicitly they add further traits and therefore allow you to play even more appopiate cards and powers.