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So, I'm running Rise of the Runelords, and my party has been dominated by the two mystic theurges and the paladin, leaving the rogue and the monk out in the cold. I've decided to buff the monk, basically splicing Master of Many Styles onto him to give him more versatility. The rogue, however, I'm still kinda turning over in my head. I don't just want to give him bigger numbers, I want to make him more versatile so that he can contribute a bit more in and out of combat.
Does anyone have any novel suggestions? He's playing his rogue mostly as an archer (but occasionally uses a rapier), poorly optimized. High Dex & Int, low Str & Cha. Wanted to kinda be a skill monkey, but the casters are so far ahead of him in that regard it's silly.
Sadly there aren't too many good options for Rogue archers. Unchained Rogue is a good start, but it doesn't do much for archery. Skill Unlock (stealth) makes sniping a viable strategy, but it's really a solo strategy and liable to get the Rogue player strangled by the other players every time he suggests he go ahead and eliminate some enemies.
One option would be to gestalt Rogue with Fighter. This means the character gets all the class features of Rogue and Fighter, and takes the better of their progressions; so the fighter's base attack bonus, fortitude save, and hid dice, and the Rogue's reflex save and skill points. This might be overkill in your group, though, since Mystic Theurges aren't really that powerful in the grand scheme of things and Fighter/Rogue gestalt is generally used to catch up to stuff like pure Wizard or pure Cleric which are much more powerful than the Mystic Theurge hybrid.
You could give him the alchemist's casting progression. Then he can cast self-buffs as the situation warrants.
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This might be overkill in your group, though, since Mystic Theurges aren't really that powerful in the grand scheme of things and Fighter/Rogue gestalt is generally used to catch up to stuff like pure Wizard or pure Cleric which are much more powerful than the Mystic Theurge hybrid.
Maybe...but even for being suboptimal builds, I'm finding that dual MTs are pretty ridiculously versatile. Granted, they're both behind in spell progression, but their spell versatility is insane (especially since they essentially get double wizard spells known as they let each other copy spells).
You could give him the alchemist's casting progression. Then he can cast self-buffs as the situation warrants.
That's a possibility. TBH I don't know much about the alchemist. I've read a bit, but I've never played one or with one in my party.
First, give him the unchained rogue abilities (they just add on a few and lose nothing -- a straight buff).
Then, give him some/all Ninja abilities. You can take away the normal tradeoffs for the ninja "archetype" (alternate classes are basicially big archetypes, and it's not hard to figure out the changes between them), or just tack on some of the ninja abilities for free.
Ninja gives a lot of versatility and power to the Rogue, and with the goodies from the Unchained Rogue as well, he should do pretty well. I'd even be inclined to let him use whichever mental stat he likes to determine the size of his Ki pool, if he didn't add much Charisma (I never quite understand the flavor of charisma for a ninja). Or at least let him redistribute his stats if you give him Ki pool.
Archery itself is pretty tough on a rogue. The ninja's Vanish Trick would give him the best chance of getting sneak attacks, but it would burn through Ki points very fast.
Consider tossing him some Sniper Goggles if he wants to persist with that theme.
Best not to throw him too much good stuff at once, though, because it's harder to take it away if you go overboard.
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First and Foremost...Use the Unchained Rogue. It is far above the the Core rogue.
Secondly Fix his saves. Let the Player Pick between Ranger saves or Bard saves. (I recommend Ranger saves for the Fortitude in this AP) A rogues saves of only good reflex is a downfall of the class and in Later books like end of book 4-6 it will be more about the saves. I've seen a rogue just fail a save and instant die many times.
Archery rogues straight suck. Not much you can do for him. Perhaps let him have an extra feat using his rogue level as 1/2 his fighter level for qualifying for feats from this point on. This allows him to grab specialization and Point Blank Master later on.
I would give him Big Game Hunter feat for free Tho as it will come in handy for 80% of the campaign from book 3+. It is also a feat that was created for Rise of the Runelords.
This issue with Ranged Rogues is they do not add sneak attack on the ranged damage and that is greatly reducing the Rogues damage.
the only half decent combo I know is taking the Sniper and Scout archetypes. they don't overlap so you providing your gm doesn't object can have both.
the sniper extends the range of your sneak attack. and at level 8 you get to apply your sneak attack every time you move more than 10 feet. unfortunately though, you'll be limited to one attack per round. thats all I know.
also depending on how high your intelligence is, the focussed shot feat might be worth looking at, but only if you have high intelligence.
personally, I'm on a bolt ace high at the moment. So for a great ranged build I'd go with that and pick traits that give class skills to make the character more roguish.
thats the best I can do for you i'm afraid :(
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the only half decent combo I know is taking the Sniper and Scout archetypes. they don't overlap so you providing your gm doesn't object can have both.
I am the GM, so no I don't. ^_~
Some interesting ideas in this thread. I'm looking more for bolt-on stuff to help him out rather than a character rebuild (unless he wants to rebuild his character entirely, but I doubt it).
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Ranged rogue
Greater Sniper Goggles
Any means of making it so rogue can see targets, but they can't see him (greater invisibility, deeper darkness & see in darkness, fog cloud & fog sight, et cetera)
Sniping (Stealthy Sniper talent, Swift as Shadows if he's a halfling, Expert Sniper if not a halfling, Greater Sniping weapon enchantment, Master Sniper feat)
Mocking Dance + Performing Combatant + Master Combat Performer = full attack plus one or more moves per round to kite away
Melee rogue
Give him a flanking buddy
High base attack and damage bonus (i.e. high strength or high dex and feats/options to use dex for attack and damage)
TWF for lots of attacks = lots of sneak attack damage
It might sound odd, but if you use the variant Called Shot rules from Ultimate Combat, give him the Improved Called Shot feat for free. I used it to great effect last time I played a rogue, simply because Called Shot and Sneak Attack together can really hurt.
Or give him a RogueTalent for Dex to damage with bows.
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First use unchained rogue as this is a large improvement over core rogue.
If you don't have the dirty tactics toolbox. You should let him know their is a feet line in it for snipers. The new feat's are Expert Sniper, and Master Sniper. This combined with the rogue talent Fast Stealth, and Surprise Attack. All help but they chose a path that is one of the weakest options. That is their choice let them play the character they want. If they say something about it let them rebuild the character.
