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Huh, how epic would it be to run the AP's in the order that they appear in roloz listing rather than by release date, allowing the adventures to affect the ones played later in varyibg degrees?
For the record, this'd be pretty easy to do. Jade Regent needs to come after Rise of the Rune Lords and Shattered Star after Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Second Darkness...but the list is already set up so that's true.
The rest are completely independent from each other, and often take places thousands of miles apart.
The big issue, and it's by far the biggest in regards to Wrath of the Righteous, is why all the 17th level former PCs aren't dealing with the new problem in the new AP. It's a bigger issue with WotR because those characters aren't just 17th level and thus some pretty badass people, but 20th level and 10th Mythic Tier...and literally unkillable in addition to being able to kill almost any villain on Golarion pretty casually. And almost certainly Good aligned.
Now, some APs, this is easy enough to explain with distance and them being busy, but, just for example, Second Darkness involves a potentially world-ending menace. Why exactly don't the WotR PCs just step in and spend an afternoon fixing it? And why don't your Second Darkness PCs spend the resources necessary to call them in to do so, since they're gonna be public figures?
For that matter, both Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance assume the continued existence of Cheliax. If any of the WotR PCs worship Iomedae (a very likely occurrence), that seems unlikely to be the case, since one 20th level, Mythic Tier 10 PC can pretty casually destroy Abrogail Thrune and all her advisers, and take over the country themselves.
Now, all this is definitely solvable (having the WotR PCs ascend to godhood or otherwise leave the Prime Material Plane leaps to mind as a solution to a lot of them), but it's definitely the big issue to be dealt with.
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How this would manifest at the end of HV is yet to be determined... but I have some ideas. Mythic HV isn't out of the question...
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Right now it is Carrion Crown and CotCT. I can't choose.
Hmmm... It'd be interesting if a group of GMs were to get together and each take turns running APs. I'd be so down for it
As for Wrath of the Righteous, the player character will, in many cases, be busy trying to tie things up in the north, though a crusading member might do as Kalindlara says.
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As for Wrath of the Righteous, the player character will, in many cases, be busy trying to tie things up in the north, though a crusading member might do as Kalindlara says.
After the campaign ends? Only if they choose to. They can also fix any situation in the world they care to. Often by taking a day out of their schedule rather than any long amount of time. For a party of CR 25 characters (which the PCs are) assassinating Evil Overlords is an afternoon's work, not an epic quest. Reforming a whole government is a bit harder, I'll grant you, but even then, you can leave one of them to do that in each Evil nation you overthrow and likely be fine.
After a brutal and long war with an otherworldly mob I'm quite sure Galfrey is all tapped out, with not much of a government structure left.
Mythic heroes or not.
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After a brutal and long war with an otherworldly mob I'm quite sure Galfrey is all tapped out, with not much of a government structure left.
Mythic heroes or not.
Maybe. I got the impression she had a bit more infrastructure left than that, though. Especially now that there were no major foes left to fight.
Either way, my point about them being able to work on whatever they want (including fixing up the area) six days a week and overthrow tyrants on Sundays still applies. And you certainly don't need more than a couple people of that power level to fix up a country. If there's even one Wizard, Druid, or Cleric in the group, they can do almost all the rebuilding an area needs by themselves, leaving the rest of the party free to go rule Cheliax and root out infernalism after overthrowing the House of Thrune (or whatever).
Really, people of that level and Mythic Tier are just too powerful to not break the setting as presented in profound ways. The only Evil country they couldn't conquer casually would be Geb (do not mess with Geb...he's probably the most dangerous thing on Golarion that is actually awake and free, speaking canonically).
Again, I don't think this is actually a huge problem. There are lots of ways to necessitate them leaving Golarion, or even being de-powered somehow. But one of those things does need to happen for them to not just wreck a lot of AP plots by existing and pursuing logical courses of action.
Having them ascend to actual Godhood, where they're under severe injunctions to not interfere personally, is one of the most obvious solutions. This also lets future PCs an AP or three down the road worship them, which is pretty neat.
I meant by the end of the last crusade. It was my understanding that Mendev went all in, with heavy casualties.
I could be totally wrong though, it's been awhile since I had those books out. :-)
Edit: but yes, I totally agree with you. :-)
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My favourite adventure path was definitely Curse of the Crimson Throne! It had a wonderful story and so many super memorable, epic-feeling moments just begging to be experienced. It's also one of the few I've read that you could literally just pick up and play as is. Although all campaigns benefit from the GM and players working together and expanding the story as they go, this one would still be awesome played word-for-word, or as a first campaign for new GMs to run. Just perfect.
Rise of the Runelords and Second Darkness are also close to the top.
I'm most excited for Hell's Vengeance. I loved the first volume I read and can't wait to get my hands on more.
My favourite single volumes from Adventure Paths are the Sixfold Trial from Council of Thieves and Rasputin must Die from Reign of Winter.
Although I understand lots of people enjoy the open-world, sandbox style of Kingmaker and Serpent's Skull, it's really not my preferred style of game and these two campaigns rate lowest on my list. Still enjoyable, of course, and well written. They both strongly benefit from players who really enjoy micromanaging (for kingdom building, etc.) which I (thankfully) have among my friends and family. I don't doubt that together my players and I will experience an epic, enjoyable year of play, but campaign-wise: so NOT my cup of tea.
Well I'd still be down for the multiple GM game, and I'm sure that with that much talent even WotR would be easy to play down in the long term. Remember, it's a bunch of effectively demi-deities, they may well have their hands full dealing with lingering threats and other issues (lingering abyssal horrors, extraplanar threats, shoring up a newly freed land, etc).
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Well I'd still be down for the multiple GM game, and I'm sure that with that much talent even WotR would be easy to play down in the long term. Remember, it's a bunch of effectively demi-deities, they may well have their hands full dealing with lingering threats and other issues (lingering abyssal horrors, extraplanar threats, shoring up a newly freed land, etc).
Oh, it's easily doable. Someone just has to actually do it (ie: come up with a coherent rationale).
And I sadly can't participate in any online games. My time is more or less spoken for.
If I don't get into any of the two games I recently applied for, I may well start a "GM Epic Campaigns Recruit" thread and see how that pans out.
In any event, I should go back and review this thread, see what folks thought about the various APs.
Huh, how epic would it be to run the AP's in the order that they appear in roloz listing rather than by release date, allowing the adventures to affect the ones played later in varyibg degrees?
This would be hilarious if the PCs "lose" one of those games, and the BBEG has taken over and (done whatever they plan to do, none of which are pleasant for the world).
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Huh, how epic would it be to run the AP's in the order that they appear in roloz listing rather than by release date, allowing the adventures to affect the ones played later in varyibg degrees?This would be hilarious if the PCs "lose" one of those games, and the BBEG has taken over and (done whatever they plan to do, none of which are pleasant for the world).
Well, a number of the AP's have contingencies in them for that as well, basically a "second and last shot" chance to winning. Barring that, it would lead to some epic world changes.
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Well, I started running Crimson Throne last June, so in a month an a half we'll have been at it for a year. I expect to have finished book 4 by then. Although I expect books 5 and 6 to be slightly faster, that's still well over a year and approaching a year and a half for a single, six-book AP.
(We try to play every week, but everyone has a life outside of gaming and in reality we end up playing, on average, about once every 1.5 to 2 weeks).
At that pace, it would take nearly three decades to get through all of the modules above. And Paizo keeps publishing more!
So who's up for a wild and exciting PRG at our retirement home in like 2050? Presumably starting at noon and running until 4:30, when we go out for the early bird special at the local Chinese buffet? :-D
time for an update
1. Kingmaker, still, just
2. Iron fang
3. Mummys mask
4. Reign of winter
5. Jade regent
Iron Gods has been a ton of fun.
1. Kingmaker(with mod)
2. Wrath of the Righteous(with a lot of mod)
3. Serpent's Skull
1) Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition (as written, maybe with some more expansion of Xin Shalast).
2) Kingmaker (with the kingdom building in the background).
3) Skull and Shackles (with Souls for Smuggler's Shiv from SS as a prelude).
4) Carrion Crown (with a bit less emphasis on the Underworld movie aspect in the Ashes at Dawn volume).
A year and a half later, I'd only change my former list by moving Carrion Crown into the number 2 slot. My favorites otherwise remain the same.
Plot's a bit on the weak side. Some of the individual adventures make up for it, though.I'd heard the Advanced Class Guide Adventure Path wasn't their best work with many glaring omissions.
I don't have it tho so I could be wrong.
So, it turns out, after getting the Advanced Class Guide (not the adventure path though) I'm a big fan of the book.
Plot twist!
1. Second Darkness
2. Council of thieves
3. Giantslayer
On a serious note, I don't understand the hate for legacy of Fire. I am rereading it and while they are some weak parts and the railroad takes some work to fix in 5 and 6, it has the potential to be a great story.
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Savage Tide
Carrion Crown
Rise of the Rune Lords
Serpent Skull
Jade Regent
Shackled City
Previous Kingmaker
Am really enjoying ironfang, only done mod 1 and 2. Very interesting to see how it develops regards stealing #1 spot
Mummys mask was running a good second, but the dungeons in part 4 really putting me off.
Skull And Shackles
Iron Gods
Reign Of Winter
Ironfang Invasion
Strange Aeons.
Kingmaker
Hell's Rebels
Ironfang Invasion
I'm not familiar with all the APs by any stretch but...
Favorite: Curse of the Crimson Throne.
The combination of Logue, Schneider and Pett for the first three books managed a consistency of style, tone and narrative that I've not scene in any other AP to date. But then, as I said I haven't seen them all :)
18 months and several other AP's later....
1) Curse of the Crimson Throne. Even though I rewrote most of the plot of History of Ashes, the published adventure at least gave me the material to do so in the form of rich setting and interesting characters.
2) Council of Thieves. I have to admit, in its published state it probably should be bumped down a peg or two on this list, but Westcrown was simply gorgeous, and with some (okay, 200+ pages of GM notes) effort, it was dearly loved by myself and my players.
3) Rise of the Runelords. Runelords is an all-round solid adventure, with good adversaries and extremely memorable moments, with some excellent writing blended with a nifty theme of sin throughout.
The others I'm familiar with are Hell's Rebels , Carrion Crown and to a lesser degree Second Darkness and Skull & Shackles.
Hells Rebels and Skull and Shackles are my favourites
So far it is Ruins of Azlant for me.
Favourites so far:
1)Ruins of Azlant - but we're only on book 1 PbP. I love the idea/setting and the party!
2) Hell's Rebels (books 1-2) Loved the setting up of the rebellion.
3) Mummy's Mask (I have been GMing this (on book 3 atm) for 1 person and it is good fun.
4) GMing curse of the crimson throne.
Middling games:
-Rise of the runelords. I played this as a 1 player person and think I would have preferred it with a party.
-Giantslayer - average AP.
Least favourite:
Reign of Winter - Playing this at my local gaming store at the moment and I am really not enjoying the book 1. It is one massive rail road - you dont get much chance for roleplay as everything feels so urgent right from the get go.
I want to play the following as I think I will like them (but noone to play with!)
-King Maker !!
-Strange Aeons
At the moment:
As a DM:
1. Curse of the Crimson Throne;
2. Carrion Crown;
3. Skull and Shackles; and
4. Reign of Winter.
I loved the atmosphere of Carrion Crown, and it is only slightly behind Curse. It looses points for requiring that I do a lot of work and a little bit of retconning to pull off the finale.
I really enjoyed reading through Reign of Winter, purchased all the extras and really did my best to sell the path. I think I might have oversold it, though, as the game fizzled out in book 3 despite my best efforts. The words "railroad" and "slog" were used. I would like to restart but skip book 3.
As a player
1. Ironfang Invasion;
2. Rise of the Runelords;
3. Kingmaker
4. Serpent Skull
Ironfang Invasion is just plain, good old fashioned fun. I am enjoying every minute. Somehow, it feels more 'real' than RotRL, although I loved that too.
I thought the first two books of Serpent Skull were fantastic, but after that it deteriorated quickly, and the game petered out. Our PCs are probably still grinding away in those ruins...Meanwhile, our Kingmaker game got bogged down in spreadsheets and paperwork.
Skulls & Shackles
Then again I have only finished 2 APs so far and Rise of the Runelords (the other one) was a pretty good as well.
I can't really recommend Reign of Winter. The story and the expected PC behavior both feel nonsensical, so we stopped halfway through book 5 (the issues started book 3 I'd say, book 2 was pretty cool).
Kingmaker is fine so far, but I wish there were less random encounters (currently at the start of book 4). Overall I don't think it will be able to beat Skulls & Shackles.
I have neither read nor played through many but my favourites to run are:
As written: Hell's Rebels
With heavy modification/additional content: Kingmaker
Other potentials:
-Curse of the Crimson Throne (I'd run this next if I wasn't currently running Hell's Rebels)
-Ironfang Invasion (looks super promising but we'll have to see with an actual play-through)
-Ruins of Azlant (looks decent but again, requires an actual play-through)
Least favourite (as a player): Rise of the Runelords (but that may be because I haven't read anything other than the 5 I've listed and Strange Aeons.)
War for the Crown is almost certainly taking top spot for me. I'm having a blast doing the prep-work alone.
Hell's Rebels is a close second.
(I /may/ have a thing for intrigue campaigns)
War of the crown might be my new favorite i love it so mutch after that is curse of the crimson throne
Way back at the start of this thread, I said Iron Gods. Now that I'm halfway through running Curse of the Crimson Throne, I'm changing my vote to that. It's incredibly fun to GM.
Iron Gods is still right up there, but Curse just has something magical about it.
Ah, almost another year has passed in this thread. Carrion Crown has now gone to number one for me.
1) Carrion Crown, thought I'd gut most of the Underworld movie vibe in chapter 5 and replace it with Mike Shel's Tomb of the Iron Medusa (as per Ice Titan's posts with some minor modification).
2) Kingmaker, but with the Kingdom Building (and probably mass combat) in the background. Chapter 5 would be merged with Prisoners of the Blight (Ironfang Invasion chapter 5, the BBEG would be Nyrissa's insane sister).
3) Skull and Shackles. Still would be starting with Souls for Smuggler's Shiv (Serpent Skull chapter 1) as a prelude. At the end, the group will be "rescued" by the Wormwood.
Runelords drops to number 4 of my list. Sins of the Saviors (again with the pesky Chapter 5s of APs needing a lot of reworking on my end) is uninspired after Arkrhyst with the mini-dungeons. I've mixed it up with the Guiltspur section of "Into the Nightmare Rift" (chapter 5 of the Shattered Star AP).
I'm confidant this is my final list! ;)
As a player it would be Council of Thieves, hands down, no contest. My GM did a ton of work on this one, probably doubling its length and giving enough clues that the PCs were actually able to figure out what was going on and who their enemies were. Also my 19-year-old petty-noblewoman enchantress ended up as Mayor of Westcrown (and married to Aberian) and head of the Council of Thieves, which was very, very satisfying.
After that would be Hell's Rebels and Mummy's Mask, and the first half of Savage Tide. (Every Savage Tide game I've seen self-destructed halfway through; if I were to run it I'd just plan to stop there. But the trip to halfway is well worth it.)
For me as a player, Crimson Throne and Strange Aeons were more or less failures, with Crimson Throne being the worst--it had so much intriguing material but every time I wanted to go one way it wanted to go the other. We gave up around book 3 when I found out we were about to leave Korvosa--that was just non-negotiable for me as a player. Jade Regent had a lot of structural problems, though the interpolation of the Ruby Phoenix Tournament module helped some.
As a GM my favorite would be Kingmaker, which my player really seemed to enjoy--we took a long time at it and the NPC interaction was first-rate. It fell apart in book 6, but that was forgivable. I hope we can get a similar game out of our current attempt to do Ruins of Azlant as a kingdom-building game.
After that would be Rise of the Runelords and Iron Gods. I expected to hate Iron Gods but my player really wanted to do it, and to my surprise, it was fun--especially, book 6 was fun, and it's the first AP I think I can say that about.
For all three of Giantslayer, Reign of Winter, and Shattered Star, I enjoyed the first two modules and then the AP became a total slog. Reign of Winter was probably the worst. When I ran Jade Regent it was also a slog, though good PCs helped. Second Darkness had one glorious episode (the one in Zirnakaynin) but was otherwise a botch that we could not manage to finish; Age of Worms had more than one, but we couldn't finish it either. I've run single modules from most of the others, but would not consider running the whole AP.
It really makes a difference whether the material clicks for the GM and player(s). I readily admit that Council of Thieves has massive structural problems, but I love Westcrown, the PCs were great, and the GM did some inspired work. On the other hand, by halfway through Giantslayer I...never wanted to see another giant, and that's really a problem. It was just so shallow and I had no idea how to make it deeper.