So since I have seen the Rise of the Rune Lords Anniversary Edition, is there any chance there will be a similar edition of Kingmaker since much of it is also out of print?
Unlikely. They did Rise because it was the first AND it was all out of print, not mostly.
Plus RotR was a special case. Kingmaker...probably won't get revised until they do like CotC, Second Darkness, and Legacy of Fire.
The conventional wisdom around these parts is that, RotRL aside, Paizo doesn't reprint APs because doing so would dilute the value of the PF AP subscription. And they want you to buy the subscription.
Once an AP completely sells out (which might be the case with KM), the probability of a compilation increases slightly, but would be a special event, probably for a significant anniversary, and is less likely for the PF APs than for the older 3.5 ones which can be considered in need of an update.
So the chance of it happening isn't zero, but it's pretty unlikely.
See this thread here for details:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kbf0?Why-we-dont-reprint
Maybe they'll do a special 10th anniversary edition.
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Maybe they'll do a special 10th anniversary edition.
20th is probably more likely.
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Maybe they'll do a special 10th anniversary edition.20th is probably more likely.
Indeed. Second Darkness and Curse of the Crimson Throne are much-requested and 3.5, so they're probably the first priorities... IF this ever happens, which is by no means guaranteed. By contrast, there's minimal call for Legacy of Fire.
Of the early PF APs, I'd prefer Council of Thieves over Kingmaker, but I'm well aware of my minority opinion there. ^_^
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The main issue is, I can't see where Kingmaker needs a re-do at all. The whole AP is just a shell framework for GMs to homebrew within, and the only thing that's really changed is the rules for kingdom building, which is covered by UCAM.
The other APs are more railroad, and in some regards the older ones were less effective because they had imbalances in their connected-ness, WBL, and like some have said, they were 3.5. I think by Kingmaker, they had a very good handle on making APs.
By contrast, I think Second Darkness could go from being something folks sort of forget about to something really amazing. Book 5 sort of torpedoed this AP, and just about anything different would really make this AP a great one.
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I think by Kingmaker, they had a very good handle on making APs.
I think Kingmaker was a stroke of luck. ^_^
Council of Thieves is kind of a disconnected mess - they were building the rules simultaneously. (You can see a lot of lessons learned in Hell's Rebels.) Wrath of the Righteous was also built alongside its ruleset, and it's somewhat notorious as a result.
Serpent's Skull has a weak middle chapter as a result of an author dropping the ball, forcing the AP's developers to finish it hastily. Between that and the sandbox nature of those chapters, it struggles for a couple of books.
Carrion Crown has a major flaw (in that its villain is barely set up). It also runs far below WBL, although this may be intentional...
I think by Kingmaker, they had a very good handle on making APs.I think Kingmaker was a stroke of luck. ^_^
Council of Thieves is kind of a disconnected mess - they were building the rules simultaneously. (You can see a lot of lessons learned in Hell's Rebels.) Wrath of the Righteous was also built alongside its ruleset, and it's somewhat notorious as a result.
Serpent's Skull has a weak middle chapter as a result of an author dropping the ball, forcing the AP's developers to finish it hastily. Between that and the sandbox nature of those chapters, it struggles for a couple of books.
Carrion Crown has a major flaw (in that its villain is barely set up). It also runs far below WBL, although this may be intentional...
I think Kingmaker is more a stroke of genius rather than luck, although it was pretty fortuitous that Game of Thrones became so popular, I agree on Council of Thieves, Carrion Crown and Serpent's Skull, tho I think Hell's Rebels learned more from Curse of the Crimson Throne personally, although plenty was learned from Council of Thieves I suspect Hell's Vengeance will resemble Council of Thieves more then Hell's Rebels will. :-)
Carrion Crown has a major flaw (in that its villain is barely set up). It also runs far below WBL, although this may be intentional...
I think Carrion Crown was fine because while the villain wasn't know, the ORGANIZATION involved in it was. Admittedly Book 2 and Book 3 didn't have as overt links, but it still managed to carry the story through I felt.
Otherwise I agree with you about Serpent's Skull, Council of Thieves being pretty disconnected (though the second book was a RP dreamer's dream.) Wrath of the Righteous, story wise, worked. It just as stated, the rules implementation needed work.
I still defend Carrion Crown mostly because I enjoy doing dark fantasy and this AP did it pretty darn well.
Will Strange Aeons be better? Probably but I don't think Carrion Crown was or is as bad as say, Second Darkness.
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Carrion Crown has a major flaw (in that its villain is barely set up). It also runs far below WBL, although this may be intentional...I think Carrion Crown was fine because while the villain wasn't know, the ORGANIZATION involved in it was. Admittedly Book 2 and Book 3 didn't have as overt links, but it still managed to carry the story through I felt.
Otherwise I agree with you about Serpent's Skull, Council of Thieves being pretty disconnected (though the second book was a RP dreamer's dream.) Wrath of the Righteous, story wise, worked. It just as stated, the rules implementation needed work.
I still defend Carrion Crown mostly because I enjoy doing dark fantasy and this AP did it pretty darn well.
Will Strange Aeons be better? Probably but I don't think Carrion Crown was or is as bad as say, Second Darkness.
I'm almost all the way through Carrion Crown now, and it's definitely one of my favorite APs. It's nowhere near as bad as Second Darkness in its implementation.
I listed the villain flaw primarily as an example of something that could be fixed in an Anniversary Edition. (Arguably, Kingmaker has the same issue in terms of foreshadowing Nyrissa.)
Sometimes, not foreshadowing the NPC is intentional. Sometimes we want an adventure path to be less about the end and more about the journey.
Agreed. I think having a faceless NPC is better. I mean look at how scary someone like say, Batman is, when the criminals don't know when or where he is.
Hey now, Batman's not a bad guy :-)
Hey now, Batman's not a bad guy :-)
I never said he was. But to criminals that aren't crazy, he's pretty scary.
Yup - but I'd like to add that - you have to know he exists for 'him' to be scary...Hey now, Batman's not a bad guy :-)I never said he was. But to criminals that aren't crazy, he's pretty scary.
Well it helps that the RUMOR of his existence spreads, I'll grant you that. Still, he's much scarier when people talk about him in that kind of paranoid, fearful tones. Like that one time, there were these kids talking about the various Batman forms, I forget which version of the animated TV show but I know Bruce Timms still had creative control.