Fogs and Clouds

[Grandlounge]

These spells are really confusing to me.

1) can you see out of a cloud spell if you are on the edge?

I assume no though not confident

2) do clouds that have effects "stinking, etc" effect large creatures that have only one square in.

I assume yes

3) does being partially in provide concealment.

I assume no

I had a hard time finding clear answers though I may have been bad at searching

Thanks all

[CampinCarl9127]

1) Yes.

2) Yes.

3) Are you saying something like a large creature having half of his occupied squares in the spell area? If so, no, it does not provide concealment from anybody that is outside the spell.

[Grandlounge]

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

1) Yes.

2) Yes.

3) Are you saying something like a large creature having half of his occupied squares in the spell area? If so, no, it does not provide concealment from anybody that is outside the spell.

Your assumption in three is correct. Is this covered in the area of effect or magic targeting section of the rules. I could not seem to find it.

Need a citation if possible.

And thanks for the quick answer.

[CampinCarl9127]

The first is just understanding the rules. You can see five feet in the cloud and fog effects, which means if you can see out of the effect, then you can see.

I believe the second answer should be in the magic section under templates. For instance, if only the corner of your fireball catches a collasal dragon, they still take full effect. Unless the spell says otherwise, barely being caught in the spell makes you suffer the full spell effects.

The concealment part is again on understanding, although it may be meantioned in the concealment rules. The fog effects provide concealment if they're far enough in it to break line of sight. Mechanically, attackin a medium creature on the edge of a fog spell and a huge creature partially in a fog spell is the same.

[Grandlounge]

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

The first is just understanding the rules. You can see five feet in the cloud and fog effects, which means if you can see out of.

For context had some huge creatures whose heads would have stuck out of a spherical cloud at the edges. They got concealment and made the for save or there heads were out and the archers could shoot them but they could breath. It seemed fair but I could not find the rules on hand for this situation.

[CampinCarl9127]

I think that was a fair and logical ruling. RAW would say that the creature is in the cloud so he needs to make a save, but I would make the same call in that situation.

[Ellias Aubec]

For 3 it depends on where you draw line of sight from. If the fog blocks line of sight, then you start looking at concealment etc, otherwise no penalties.

[Grandlounge]

Ellias Aubec wrote:

For 3 it depends on where you draw line of sight from. If the fog blocks line of sight, then you start looking at concealment etc, otherwise no penalties.

I actually originally wrote 3 as "...providing you are on the side of the cloud which the large character is sticking out (have line of sight)."

But cut it for brevity.

[Grandlounge]

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

I think that was a fair and logical ruling. RAW would say that the creature is in the cloud so he needs to make a save, but I would make the same call in that situation.

Yep I agree I was just trying to get a handle on the rules t use them better in the future.

[chuffster]

The autosave thing is a little generous. I don't think the stinking/sickening clouds will allow you to, for example, hold your breath and run through them without making a save. You also don't get a reflex save to hold your breath, you have to directly save against the effect.

I take that as saying the cloud gets in through eyes/nose/skin, not just inhalation.

[Byakko]

1)
Technically, no. Usually run as yes.

Quote:

The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment

This is actually saying that if you are within the effects of the spell (even if you're in an edge square), your sight is obscured beyond 5'.

Most GMs, however, will read this as requiring at least 5' of mist to between you and what you're looking at for your sight to be obscured.

Note, either way, a creature standing adjacent to you (both within the fog) does have concealment, as the distance between you is 5' according to the rules for measuring distance.

2)
Yes, a large creature is affected by a spell even if it is only partially within it.

3)
While a little ambiguous, I would use the rules for cover as a guide for large creatures partially in mist:

Quote:

Big Creatures and Cover: Any creature with a space larger than 5 feet (1 square) determines cover against melee attacks slightly differently than smaller creatures do. Such a creature can choose any square that it occupies to determine if an opponent has cover against its melee attacks. Similarly, when making a melee attack against such a creature, you can pick any of the squares it occupies to determine if it has cover against you.