| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
First up, if people are uncomfortable with something like this at a table, then it shouldn't BE at the table. In fact, this is such a sensitive topic, the standard rule should be "no rape in our games" and if someone wants to add it, they have to discuss it with everyone before the game.
If someone wanted to include rape in a game I was playing, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but as soon as ONE other person has a problem with it, I now have a problem with it. This is a game, it should be a safe and fun experience for everyone. If your idea of fun is making someone feel unsafe, you're doing it wrong.
Now let's talk about how stupid it is to say this is "playing in character" or some bull$#!+
Here's a video of someone "playing an evil character"
And here's a video of the main villain having his own code (John Malkovich, the guy in orange)
If you play a "character" as nothing more than Lawful/Chaotic Good/Evil hybrid, then you're not really playing a character. Even a Chaotic Evil character might despise rapists, most people do.
Long story short, the only reason your character wants to rape someone is because you want them to. If that's upsetting someone at the table There is no justification for it!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah.
It's about comfort, cooperation, and the respect of other players.
It's not really important what the subject matter is, but when another player asks you to stop, as it makes them uncomfortable, you at least discuss a compromise.
Pretty much this.
I've had similar situations in games, both those I've played in and those I've GMed. I've been asked to tone it down during an interrogation that bordered on torture in one Modern game and have asked people to tone it down when they decided to delve into areas that were explored in the Book of Vile Darkness.
There are points that many players find disgusting, distasteful or otherwise disagreeable. If something like that comes up, I ask that the table talk about how it should be handled -- avoided, fade to black or whatever -- and we move on. In fact, I try to remember to add that into the player documentation in the beginning.
It doesn't matter if you are "just playing your character." We're all at the table to enjoy ourselves as a group, and not everyone is enamoured with graphic details, be it violence or sex or actions.
Yeah, Berserk is dark and brutal. My mom loves the series.
I even have a PFS PC mostly based off Griffith. Of course, with enough changes to meet the alignment restrictions.
Okay, now I'm interested. What race, class, and alignment?
Well, he does seem to have a dex-based fighting style and uses a saber...
It's a matter of trying to have fun as a group. If there were players at the table who were not happy with a topic, I'd refrain from using it. It doesn't somehow make the game less fun or "adult" (whatever adult means), it makes the game more accessible for everyone who is wanting to play at the moment.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The issue with OPs game came from everything that happened after "new group"
There was no discussion of social contract or creative agenda.
Any time you are in a new group, or bring a new person into your existing group, it is a really good idea to sit down and talk about what everyone at the table wants and expects from the game.
First and foremost being "what is this game about?" and "what are the themes we intend to explore?"
Some games can get pretty dark. If a GM presents a creative agenda that involves mature subject matter, the players can help shape how it is presented, and most importantly they wouldn't be blindsided when awful things are described in game.
With mature games it is important to make everyone aware that a "time out" or "safe word" is always an option.
If there are things that a player is extremely uncomfortable with (like, say, a fellow PC raping another person), then those things should not be part of any story that player is involved in.
If OP's group had been able to have that conversation, the game probably would have gone differently.
This reminds me of the time that my roommate (one of the players at my table) decided to toss a few rape jokes...
But thankfully nothing bad happened afterwards. To my surprise, the game didn't fall apart nor did it lead to anything worse than a few facepalms and annoyed sighs from everyone.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
On the topic of playing evil characters, see this.
The summary of that article is roughly as follows: Evil characters who are willing to cross moral boundaries to achieve their goals(which might be understandable or even noble) can work well as a party member. The Joker...not so much. The knight who won't shirk at doing anything for his country can find a place in an adventuring party. The psycho-rapist is only appropriate if the party is expected to self-destruct in record time, or if everyone involved wants to metagame really hard to avoid falling apart due to infighting. Otherwise the GM should veto that sort of character concept on the spot.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Speaking of which. I wrote a series of articles back in 2011 about Evil and Evil games.
This is actually incredibly relevant.
Also, I hid this thread totally expecting it to go in the direction of fedora's and "nice guys".
Good lord should I have stayed out.
It is not your place to tell the person at your table, and especially at another table what they are and aren't allowed to get upset over. You can attempt to resolve the issue, or compromise, but not judge how someone feels on one or more dark subjects.
So why is one atrocity good and the other not?
Because one person is actually affected negatively by it and the other is not.
Because violence, combat, war, and all those atrocities are accepted as themes and mechanics of the game, the other is not.
The other is actually expressly forbidden as even a theme by Paizo to 3rd party publishers.
In other words, violence is an expectation, it's right there on the cover. Rape, however, is not. There are no rules to "ravish" once pinned in a grapple. Their are no guidelines for seduction under diplomacy. It's all left to the table to handle these subjects.
It's that stupidly simple.
In any case I can't believe I'm having this conversation. Seriously, I would expect, at most, for people to keep quiet on the subject and at least take note.
It's like I wrote like, forever ago, know your limits. Know your tables limits. Yes there are dark themes but you are ultimately in control of that. If someone is getting upset and physically ill, reign that s$*~ in. It's just a game. You can tone it down or if that's not possible you and all the rest are well within your rights to walk away.
Hear, hear!!!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is not your place to tell the person at your table, and especially at another table what they are and aren't allowed to get upset over. You can attempt to resolve the issue, or compromise, but not judge how someone feels on one or more dark subjects.
So why is one atrocity good and the other not?
Because one person is actually affected negatively by it and the other is not.
Because violence, combat, war, and all those atrocities are accepted as themes and mechanics of the game, the other is not.
The other is actually expressly forbidden as even a theme by Paizo to 3rd party publishers.
In other words, violence is an expectation, it's right there on the cover. Rape, however, is not. There are no rules to "ravish" once pinned in a grapple. Their are no guidelines for seduction under diplomacy. It's all left to the table to handle these subjects.
It's that stupidly simple.
In any case I can't believe I'm having this conversation. Seriously, I would expect, at most, for people to keep quiet on the subject and at least take note.
It's like I wrote like, forever ago, know your limits. Know your tables limits. Yes there are dark themes but you are ultimately in control of that. If someone is getting upset and physically ill, reign that s&*+ in. It's just a game. You can tone it down or if that's not possible you and all the rest are well within your rights to walk away.
Mic drop
/thread
Hear, hear, indeed. Not sure I have anything to say that hasn't already been said. I have started having explicit "no rape" conversations any time I invite a new player to my table. It is a little awkward, but experience has taught me it is worth doing.
I usually bundle it with a broader conversation about what to expect from the game, content wise, but table etiquette is important.