|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
On Golarion humans are the dominant race so when it comes to the subject of other races you are not going to find as much. However there are a few other species, mythic heroes and villains that I do know of.
First, of the core pantheon we only know Aroden, Nethys, Cayden Cailean, Iomedae, and Irori were human. Urgothoa is the very first undead that has ever existed so it is highly likely that she predates humanity. The other gods look like whatever you want them to look like and are species less, as they are gods.
With that said every other races has different pantheons that they worship. You can read about them in the book Inner Sea gods.
As for specific names of incredibly powerful non-deity beings there are as you said not a lot but there are a few that I know of but, ancient Dwarvish, and Gnomish culture is mostly unknown as we don't even know their homeland which makes them a tad more difficult. And halfings make it their business to stay out of the limelight.
But some of the names I do know of off hand would be: Kabriri, the demonlord of ghouls who used to be an elf. Taargick, the dwarven king who created the axe of the dwarvish lords and set out on the quest for the sky. Belkzen the orc that forged the nation that bears his name and there is also every single elf in the Mordant Spire too.
There are also a few big guys that you might be able to infer as well. Such as the elf that created the Elf Gates as well as a handful of them that may live on Castrovel. There is a nymph queen who is the most powerful nymph so it wouldn't be to hard to imagine a Gnome that is the paragon of Gnome kind that may even be the cause of their exodus from the first world. And it wouldn't be to surprising to find out about a Halfling that fought alongside Arnisant during the shining crusade against Tar-Baphon but hid from the spot light as there was apparently a bunch of Halflings that fought in the war but didn't get recognition.
Hope this helps.
Yeah Golarion is extremely human centric, it seems that this by design and not by accident although i don't know the rationale behind such a design decision. Finally, yeah it bothers (to an extent) me as well.
Humans are the most ambitious and the most populous core race, that already justifies a lot.
From a game design perspective, players are easily unable to cope when the characters are alien. It needs some time and mental flexibility to get used to demihumans - something we veterans tend to forget. Imagine a campaign in Leng - even veterans would have a hard time to dive into the setting, understanding the details of such alien societies and conflicts.
That said, additional non-human important characters would add a lot to Golarion. Especially if you play a nonhuman who wants some connection to a hero / villian of his race, be it reverence, hate or rejection.
|
Yeaaaaah, I don't really like humanocentrism either when it comes to history of setting <_< I do like it in perspective of "Playing as non human is now more special in comparison", but I do find it kinda depressing when it comes to lack of history for them.
Tian Xia though seems to have more important non human historical figures than Inner Sea when I think about it
@Myrryr
It doesn't help that we don't have an AP set in even one of the things you mention.
PS. Ok we have second darkness but there are so many thing that are... odd... with this AP that we better not mention it.
Oh I know. And what's worse is that any AP that did focus on something like that would instantly become 'the x race AP', just like Second Darkness became the Drow AP and Serpent's Skull is the Serpentfolk AP.
Yet you don't hear Rise of the Runelords being called the human wizard AP. Or Curse of the Crimson Throne being the human town AP. Strange, no?
To tell you the truth i haven't heard the Serpent Skull called the serpentfolk AP, i have heard people calling the second half of Second Darkness the drow AP and that's my problem, i wish that the entire Second Darkness was the "elf AP" or the "elf and drow AP".
My suggestion for anyone running the SD AP has always been to have one lot of characters play through SD 1-2 (for the gritty, pirate-city and alien invasion parts), then have the players make up a new party of the correct level to play thorugh SD 3-6 (for save the elves/Golarion parts).
I think the OP has got this right.
It's not that Golarion demi-human legendary figures and lore are less present in the setting because of demographics, it's like they are nearly non existent.
Let's check the two most famous (and played) demi-human races, Dwarves and Elves. In my experience they have even more people wanting to play them than even humans (and keep in mind machanically speaking PF nearly always favors humans over demihumans), yet what Dwarf or Elf has played a significant part in Golarion history? Nearly no one, and when they are mentioned they are STRICTLY connected with the history of their race not the world as a whole, for example check how General Taargick, the Dwarf who lead his people to complete the quest for sky is not even mentioned in Inner Sea Combat among the relevant personalities (the only dwarf mentioned is the current king of Highelm) or how the elf who invented the portals to escape Golarion isn't even mentioned in Inner Sea Magic. And things only get worse for other less common races.
It seems to me that for some reason the setting was built around the idea that demi-humans are something you got to have in a D&D based RPG, but they would have done without them if they could as demi-humans are not really involved with the lore of the setting aside from being present in their respective "kingdoms".
Much as I love Golarion, this lack of attention for everything non-human is something I would gladly do without.
Well, there's also locations that easily lend themselves to a Mos Eisley feel, such as Nex or the Outer plane of Axis, but we don't have much detail on those areas.
Or there's Distant Worlds, I suppose.
It's an intentional design decision. If you prefer Mos Eiseley Cantina settings, there are lots of them out there.
It's not like people are asking for completely alien stuff, just to make demi-humans a tad more relevant in the setting.
And let's be honest the "other races are in decline/retreat" is a stereotype as old as then fantasy genre itself, all the way back to Tolikien (but at least his demi-humans were relevant for his setting...).Well, there's also locations that easily lend themselves to a Mos Eisley feel, such as Nex or the Outer plane of Axis, but we don't have much detail on those areas.
Or there's Distant Worlds, I suppose.
Nex is a human magocracy and the other areas you mention are not on Golarion at all.
Nex has stuff like pechs, invisible stalkers, and mana wastes mutants in the government. Nex might have a human majority, but even the humans running the show there are only barely so.
And well, if you want less humans in your setting, then you may want to look at a setting that has less humans.
Nex has stuff like pechs, invisible stalkers, and mana wastes mutants in the government. Nex might have a human majority, but even the humans running the show there are only barely so.
And well, if you want less humans in your setting, then you may want to look at a setting that has less humans.
It's not about having less humans. It's about making non humans also relevant. This is the ONE THING Forgotten Realms do better than Golarion.
90% of D&D based settings are human dominated but nowhere else non-humans feel added as an afterthought like in Golarion.What did the dwarves do in Golarionìs history? The quest for sky (migrated on the surface basically, so it's "their thing"), period. Which dwarves are relevant or important in the history of the planet? None that we are aware of.
Elves? What did elves do that's important to the setting? They escaped the earthfall by gating on another planet and then came back. Which elves were important for the history of Golarion? None that we are aware of.
Halflings? They are in the setting as Chaelish slaves and Andoran troopers fighting to free those other slaves.
Gnomes? They have a pretty interesting first world background, but as for relevance they are not relevant at all.
Half elves? Half orcs? Don't make me laugh please.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Actually dwarves is the reason why the humans of the setting don't speak orc and are orc slaves, when the orcs came to the surface of Golarion they enslaved/pillaged etc. a very big chunk of humanity but then the dwarves came and started fighting them very very viciously... Aroden (as a human) might have been able to form a resistane and free mankind but that would mean less demon fighting for Aroden and as such the history of mankind would have been different.
IIRC, the orcs would have been nowhere near the surface if the dwarves hadn't been pushing them ahead of their own migration. No dwarven Quest for the Sky = no orcs on the surface either.
And the orc conquest was pretty much just in Avistan, and only east of Varisia (i.e., Shoanti territory) and south of the Kellid areas (i.e., mammoth lord and god-caller territory). The Taldor-empire areas probably owe a debt to the dwarves, but not all of Avistan.
Interestingly enough, in Garund (which has a minimal dwarf presence - there's just that one clan in the outskirts of Osirion) the orcs are actually allied with the humans against demons, divs, and other supernatural threats.
I have no idea how the orcs are doing in Qadira.
And the orc conquest was pretty much just in Avistan, and only east of Varisia (i.e., Shoanti territory) and south of the Kellid areas (i.e., mammoth lord and god-caller territory). The Taldor-empire areas probably owe a debt to the dwarves, but not all of Avistan.
Interestingly enough, in Garund (which has a minimal dwarf presence - there's just that one clan in the outskirts of Osirion) the orcs are actually allied with the humans against demons, divs, and other supernatural threats.
I have no idea how the orcs are doing in Qadira.
First of all, iirc, there are also dwarves in the region of Alkenstar and (again iirc) it was them that discovered firerms.
Secondly i am pretty sure that orcs would have expanded to all of Avistan pretty quickly and Garund would follow not long after*, in addition without the empire of Taldor the Avistan wouldn't be what it is now, remember that it was Taldor that brought civilazation to pretty much everywhere that there is cizilazation now in Avistan.
*although with the end of age of darkness the expansion of the orcs might have been slowed enough so that Garund wouldn't be overwhelmed
PS. I forgot the people of Tian Xia and Arcadia in my previous post, i think that those would be relatively safe from orcs even if the dwarves didn't go into war with them.
IIRC, the orcs would have been nowhere near the surface if the dwarves hadn't been pushing them ahead of their own migration. No dwarven Quest for the Sky = no orcs on the surface either.
I know but the dwarves could stay in their newly built sky citadels, not care about the humans (and halflings) and play defense with the orcs but instead they went to a full-fledged war with them.
@ leo1925 - you're right about Dongun Hold (though it should be noted that they are both tiny (pop. 1,900) and quite isolationist on top of that), but I don't see Dongun Hold making a huge impact precisely because they are both tiny and isolationist.
"Taldor brought civilization" needs to put civilization in quotation marks, badly. Taldor "brought civilization" by driving the Varisians and the Kellids out of the lands that they held.
The Taldans were kind of jerks =P
Hmmm. The orcs actually had a century long headstart over the dwarves on the surface, and apparently weren't really impeded by the dwarves until the Age of Darkness ended. (Checking Belkzen, Hold of the Orcs - yep, the dwarves managed to build the sky citadels and then were stuck in a stalemate with the orcs until the Age of Darkness ended, at which point the dwarves were able to start pushing out of the sky citadels and forced the orcs back).
Having to deal with the sun again was apparently worse for the nocturnal orcs than the dwarves themselves.
And the dwarves weren't fighting for the benefit of the other races on the surface at all. The dwarves were fighting because the orcs were trying to kill them.
If the dwarves had been content to be bottled up in the sky citadels and thus hadn't warred with the orcs, it probably would've fallen on Qadira to do it instead. Avistan would certainly be different, but any long-term reign by the orcs was doomed the moment the Age of Darkness ended.
I have been bothered as well by just how meaningless non-human races seem to be in the setting. You would think that in a race filled with fantastical creatures that humans wouldn't eclipse everything else in the world.
It isn't even that humans have a higher population. I am fine with that. The issue is that the other races almost never do anything important.
@Myrryr
You do know that only the Azlanti were the aboleth's human's right?
About your plan, i don't think it would work, non humanoid races tend to follow human leaders; take for example Irrisen, you have quite a few "moster" races living under human rule.
One of the things I like about the setting is the fact that they didn't use nonhumans as standins for any fantasy counterparts of real world human cultures. That trope was awful and needed to go away.