GMing an encounter, that doesn't have to be combat.

[Grenage]

Hi guys,

I'm curious how you handle situations where the players could resolve a situation using combat, or perhaps through discussion - but without indicating heavily that diplomacy was an option.

For example, if you are roleplaying a barkeep or vendor, it's pretty obvious that it's a RP situation.

If ten goblins jump out in front of you, and the GM screams "roll for initiative" - it's pretty obvious it's a combat scenario.

Can people try to diffuse the situation after initiative rolls, or do you wait for the players to initiate combat? I get the impression that most players won't attack unless a combat scenario has been declared, but I could be wrong.

In the games I've played in, it was always pretty obvious what you should cut in half - I'm keen for my game to be more ambiguous.

[Malag]

If you wish for more ambiguous game, don't provide so obvious clues. A party might be investigating a murder, but there is 3-4 candidates for it for example. A combat might ensue, but the villain they are attacking is yelling "I'll avenge my family's death!" might change the party's opinion. There is number of other examples, but it's mostly that you should keep party in moral dilemma. Even goblins might look poor if there is several goblin children among them.

Adam

[Grenage]

That's a good angle, thank you. I guess I'll just have to keep it vague where possible.

[Human Puppet]

Throw them into scenarios. Make sure the NPCs around them have actual personalities and are able to react to what the PCs do. I find that it really helps having a response to even the simple things that PCs do on a regular basis, and not a "draw your sword cause you cast detect magic" sort of thing. More like, if your in a peaceful village, level 10 armored up hulking PCs walking through is going to warrant a response, even though not much has happened. Keep things visualized as a scene, keep in mind these badguys and civilian NPCs should be played and positioned with the intent of looking realistic.

Also, what i do, is i err on the side of talking, and making PCs make the first move, unless im specifically making an ambush encounter or something. And make that RP encounter sound and feel like a normal NPC, with some casual hints about what they are looking for. See what they do.

[Grenage]

Thank you; visualising the scene sounds like a really good idea, especially for keeping it all fluid.

[Lincoln Hills]

Watch a couple samurai or Western movies to mine ideas for 'showdown' behavior, and have NPCs skilled in Intimidate try to psych out the PCs without necessarily calling for initiative. Whenever there's not a strong reason for the NPCs to start things, you want the decision (social conflict or combat?) to be in the PCs' hands.

This goes double in city limits! It can be fun to have PCs meet villains in a situation (at an auction, at the races, at a nobleman's court) where a brawl would be met with brutal force by some third party. Stat up a few NPCs specifically meant to "finish" fights that are unwisely picked in these areas (characters who can exploit unarmed combat, use enchantment spells or take Enforcer or Greater Disarm are good starts.) A clever PC party might trick or frame the villains - a temporary but satisfying way of removing them as obstacles.

[Grenage]

It would never have occurred to me to have NPCs roll intimidate against PCs; that's an interesting idea. Guess I need to think more like a PC from the NPCs point of view.

[Righteous Mite]

In my experience it can be as simple as: "If the NPC keeps talking, it can be solved without combat". In a purely combatative encounter the only verbal interaction tends to be taunting, so the difference is rather profound when an NPC says "It doesn't need to be like this!". Also, if they encounter an unfriendly looking NPC and initiative is not called for, lots of players catch on quickly and try talking to it.

Sure, sometimes people immediately charge ahead but I find most players are hesitant about starting initiative of their own accord.

Also keep in mind that the only avenues for interaction skill-wise that are feasible in combat are bluff and intimidate, since diplomacy takes too long. If you wish to give opportunity for diplomacy, have the NPC hold back with a readied action to defend himself for a round or two, describing the fearful look in his eyes for example.

Most characters in prewritten scenarios are flat, so they have a motivation and some kind of quirk of personality ("I want to survive, because I need to protect my family" for example). If you give a glimpse of their motivation, and the PCs care enough to notice it doesn't conflict with their goals that much, they might just decide the guy doesn't have to die :)

[Grenage]

Thanks for the tips!

I was planning on having one of the earlier scenarios feature 'enemies' that slowly grow in number around the party, as the situation develops. That way the party will have to make a decision to nip it in the bud with action, or keep talking.

Do GMs ever initiate combat, but allow the situation to be diffused after initiative rolls?

[Trekkie90909]

Yup. Quite often in fact.

[Grenage]

Great; glad to know I wouldn't be breaking any cardinal rules.

[Mike J]

I use initiative for all types of encounters, instead of just combat. It keeps things orderly and prevents player steamrolling ("I say this, and do that, and do another thing, and, and...") Unless it is a meaningless interaction like purchasing trail rations from a nameless shopkeeper, every encounter starts with rolling initiative. What happens from there is up to all the involved creatures. If someone decides to attack, the encounter becomes a combat. If everyone decides to stop attacking, the encounter becomes a non-combat encounter. That second one rarely happens without one side of the combat being all dead or unconscious.

A few added benefits: it encourages more players to get involved since everyone has a turn and one player can't "hog the mic". It also masks the intentions of NPCs. The PCs roll initiative for the NPCs that want to kill them as well as the NPCs who don't. Makes it hard to tell which is which.

[dragonhunterq]

I only roll initiative once combat is inevitable. The minute one side declares it is going to attack another - whether that is the players or NPCs - only then do we go to initiative. If it's still just talking or bravado or intimidation, there is no need for initiative.

And stopping combat before one side is defeated is certainly a possibility, depending on what is said/done.

[Grenage]

Thank you for both angles; the initiative with or without combat seems pretty alien to me, as we've never played a game that way. I think the heads of our more loquacious players would explode.

[Berti Blackfoot]

I don't know how, every time I try the barbarian screams and charges.

[Mike J]

Berti Blackfoot wrote:

I don't know how, every time I try the barbarian screams and charges.

Isn't that the barbarian version of Diplomacy?

[SlimGauge]

I had a dwarven character who named his axe "Diplomacy".

PC: "Use diplomacy on him !"
Dwarf: "Right-oh !" <Power-attack>

[Wolfsnap]

I'm actually working on a book about running Non-Combat encounters and making them a little more involved than just "talk vs. fight".

There are lots of non-combat types of encounters to be had:

- Negotiations
- Stealth encounters
- Stamina encounters (how long can you hold out in this hostile environment?)
- Puzzle challenges
- Research and "library use" encounters
- Travel/survival encounters
- Chase/pursuit encounters

etc etc etc...

[Rylar]

I find my players rarely behave the way I think they will.

I had a non combat encounter all planned out where they were supposed to negotiate with slavers for the freedom of slaves they brought to trade. This one had a high likelyhood of turning into a brawl at some point, but no they started shooting in the opening round of negotiations.

I've had kobolds attack their village, a pure combat situation, only to have the players give them food and make allies out of them.

In mid combat they have managed to persuade their opponent to stop fighting and negotiate.

It's really fun when a group is like this. As a DM I have found it best to prepare and roll with it.

[Grenage]

That sounds interesting Wolfsnap; you should definitely let us know when it's ready!

Aye, Rylar - I guess one just has to prepare all you can, and be ready to improvise. I figure as long as we have some generic encounters and plot scenarios on the side, they can be worked into whatever happens.