Can you Bull Rush into the air?

[CaptainFord]

I've been tinkering with a new character and I stumbled across a question as I was trying to get him somewhat optimized. The short version: he's a kobold who descends from imperial dragons rather than chromatic or metallic dragons, and focuses on water- and cold-based spells. Essentially, a water bending kobold with antlers.

My question is this: can you use a spell like Hydraulic Push to make a bull rush attempt on foes and push them into the air? And if so, what is the result? Do they flop to the ground on their backs, do they make a Reflex save to land on their feet, do they drop what they're carrying, etc?

I've combed the rules and I can't find anything that says you can... but I also can't see anything that says you technically can't either. And from a fluff perspective, it makes some sense... I guess...

[ErichAD]

I'm not sure either and couldn't find an answer. Also, can you bullrush up or down while burrowing or flying. Essentially, "How does bullrush work with vertical movement."

[Archaeik]

You do not get to choose the direction of the Bull Rush, it is always "away from you".

Bull Rush wrote:

You can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack. You can only bull rush an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. A bull rush attempts to push an opponent straight back without doing any harm. If you do not have the Improved Bull Rush feat, or a similar ability, initiating a bull rush provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.

If your attack is successful, your target is pushed back 5 feet. For every 5 by which your attack exceeds your opponent's CMD you can push the target back an additional 5 feet. You can move with the target if you wish but you must have the available movement to do so. If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target.

Now, provided that you are actually beneath your opponent, I see no mechanical issue with this, however just about every rules element that discusses upward airborne movement indicates that it cost double, even though I can't cite a general rule that explicitly says this, so it should cost 10ft of success for every 5ft of vertical movement.

After that, standard falling rules should apply (flying opponents won't likely fall), meaning that they land on their feet unless they take lethal damage, which requires falling a minimum of 10ft (or 20ft worth of BR success).
I don't think they can make an acrobatics check, because they did not deliberatly jump down.

[Shiroi]

By similar vein of questioning, we assume up costs double... but a hydro/aero kineticist can easily fly above a giant wasp and bull rush it *straight down*. Does that cost double, normal, or half? It's working with, not against, gravity. I assume at least normal movement if not double your success. If so, does the creature take falling damage from bull rushing at the ground?

[Anvil Mithrashield]

dragon disciple with shield slam, flying out of the heavens, would at bare minimum knock the bad guys prone... Attack of opportunity, flat footed = yippy!

[Archaeik]

Shiroi wrote:

By similar vein of questioning, we assume up costs double... but a hydro/aero kineticist can easily fly above a giant wasp and bull rush it *straight down*. Does that cost double, normal, or half? It's working with, not against, gravity. I assume at least normal movement if not double your success. If so, does the creature take falling damage from bull rushing at the ground?

There are fewer rules that indicate you get any bonuses for working with gravity. (Though it makes sense to make it reciprocal. Ask your GM)

To address the the ground:

Bull Rush wrote:

You cannot bull rush a creature into a square that is occupied by a solid object or obstacle.

You'd need Shield Slam.

BR by itself does no damage; but, if you caused a creature to fall because of your action, it should take that damage normally, however a pedantic reading of RAW makes this very difficult.

Fly wrote:

Attacked While Flying: You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature's movement.

Collision While Flying: If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.

You've both done no damage, and you are a creature not an object.