Heyo, guys, a quick question: I'm sending a mounted paladin against a party with a few evil folks in it, and I wanna make sure that I got damage all right.
so, I'm imagining a perfect situation for the paladin: he is able to spell up, and do a perfect ride-by charge attack on his opponents with his lance. he is level 9. He has bless (+1 to attack rolls), divine favor (+1 to attack adn damage), sun metal (+1d4 burning), a strength bonus of +3, power attack and that feat that lets you ignore the penalty for the first power attack (+4 damage, no to hit negative).
I THINK this adds up to a +11 attack, with damage as 1d8+3 strength+1 divine favor +1 1d4 burning+4 power attack, for a total of +11 (1d8+1d4+8)
HOWEVER, where I get messed up is the multiplications. the lance itself does *2 while mounted, and I took spirited charge to make it *3. I will, hopefully, also be able to pop off Litany of righteousness, which doubles damage again against evil folks.I am guessing that these do not, in fact, multiply each other, leading to the following:
Lance +11, (1d8+1d4+8)*5 (as long as against evil).
Is this right? the average for this is 75 damage, which is quite along, and even if I only get the litany off it's still a considerable amount! Also, if I get a critical hit, how would that deal with the already present multipliers? Thanks!
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Multiplication in Pathfinder gets weird.
While it's called out in the Spirited Charge entry, a Lance does 3x damage on a spirited charge because multiplying by 2 twice is equivalent to multiplying by 3. This is because each multiplier acts on the original damage. Yes, it's weird.
So, with Litany of Righteousness, you're just bumping the multiplier up again, to 4x. However, you also never multiply bonus dice, such as the 1d4 from Sun Metal.
So: (1d8+8)*4+1d4 = 4d8+1d4+32.
On a crit, you effectively increase the multiplier by another 2.
So: (1d8+8)*6+1d4 = 6d8+1d4+48.
Away from books, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't quite recall every nuance.
But first, you mentioned a 9th level Paladin. Since caster level for Paladin is level - 3, that makes him caster level 6 which I believe nets him a +2 from Divine Favor.
Secondly, Sun Metal is a dice adder, so the damage from that is not multiplied. It only adds 1d4 fire after totalling everything else.
Third, Litany of Righteousness does double your damage, but in that regard, it just increases your multiplier. Mounted, with a lance, with Spirited Charge, is a x3, and with Litany it gets bumped to a x4, not x5.
As for your attack and damage... well, you have +9 BAB, +1 from Bless, +2 from Divine Favor, and +3 from strength and no penalty because Furious Focus and the lance is a 2-handed weapon, for a total of +15 to hit, +17 on the charge which is required for lance shenanigans. Damage, however, is +4 from strength (because two-handed), +2 from Divine Power, and +9 from Power Attack. That's +15 damage. Reduce by 6 if I am misremembering how lances and mounted combat works.
So your lance charge, without Smite Evil, is 4d8+60+1d4fire with a +17. Damage goes up by 36 if Smiting, and to hit by the Paladin's Charisma modifier. And your multiplier goes up by two (to a x6) on a crit, because lances are x3 weapons.
Suffice to say, smiting lance charges are painful, if they can pull it off.
Oki doki, thanks! Yeah multiplication stuff for pathfinder is weird. I'll copy-paste all this to use. One can only hope the players hide behind trees.
ArcGygas wrote: Away from books, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't quite recall every nuance.
But first, you mentioned a 9th level Paladin. Since caster level for Paladin is level - 3, that makes him caster level 6 which I believe nets him a +2 from Divine Favor.
Secondly, Sun Metal is a dice adder, so the damage from that is not multiplied. It only adds 1d4 fire after totalling everything else.
Third, Litany of Righteousness does double your damage, but in that regard, it just increases your multiplier. Mounted, with a lance, with Spirited Charge, is a x3, and with Litany it gets bumped to a x4, not x5.
As for your attack and damage... well, you have +9 BAB, +1 from Bless, +2 from Divine Favor, and +3 from strength and no penalty because Furious Focus and the lance is a 2-handed weapon, for a total of +15 to hit, +17 on the charge which is required for lance shenanigans. Damage, however, is +4 from strength (because two-handed), +2 from Divine Power, and +9 from Power Attack. That's +15 damage. Reduce by 6 if I am misremembering how lances and mounted combat works.
So your lance charge, without Smite Evil, is 4d8+60+1d4fire with a +17. Damage goes up by 36 if Smiting, and to hit by the Paladin's Charisma modifier. And your multiplier goes up by two (to a x6) on a crit, because lances are x3 weapons.
Suffice to say, smiting lance charges are painful, if they can pull it off.
Actually just helped my wife build her first paladin and discussed lance charges. to clarify - although a lance is 2hd, and can be used "one-handed while mounted" - it still qualifies for the 1.5x STR on damage?
As for the charge attack - with Reach, I assume she can avoid an AoO on her or the mount unless the creature attacked also uses a reach weapon? Back in 2dE a player in my campaign used Paladin in this manner and was just bloody lethal. It validates why IRL heavy cav vs foot-soldier had to be a terrorizing situation - even if you had a long-spear to brace.
coffeedog14 wrote: Heyo, guys, a quick question: I'm sending a mounted paladin against a party with a few evil folks in it, and I wanna make sure that I got damage all right.
so, I'm imagining a perfect situation for the paladin: he is able to spell up, and do a perfect ride-by charge attack on his opponents with his lance. he is level 9. He has bless (+1 to attack rolls), divine favor (+1 to attack adn damage), sun metal (+1d4 burning), a strength bonus of +3, power attack and that feat that lets you ignore the penalty for the first power attack (+4 damage, no to hit negative).
I THINK this adds up to a +11 attack, with damage as 1d8+3 strength+1 divine favor +1 1d4 burning+4 power attack, for a total of +11 (1d8+1d4+8)
HOWEVER, where I get messed up is the multiplications. the lance itself does *2 while mounted, and I took spirited charge to make it *3. I will, hopefully, also be able to pop off Litany of righteousness, which doubles damage again against evil folks.I am guessing that these do not, in fact, multiply each other, leading to the following:
Lance +11, (1d8+1d4+8)*5 (as long as against evil).
Is this right? the average for this is 75 damage, which is quite along, and even if I only get the litany off it's still a considerable amount! Also, if I get a critical hit, how would that deal with the already present multipliers? Thanks!
We've been seeing a little of this mounted combat in our game. I believe you're missing +1 to hit for "high-ground" while mounted if the attack is vs Med or smaller. It just gets worse for that dismounted evil-doer.
High ground probably doesn't apply when you're mounted but are otherwise on a level ground surface. You kind of act as a single unit while mounted. I also suspect that if you did receive a +1 bonus from this it would have been called out specifically in the mounted rules.
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Kaouse wrote: Saddle Surge. Use it. That one is amazing.
Byakko wrote: High ground probably doesn't apply when you're mounted but are otherwise on a level ground surface. You kind of act as a single unit while mounted. I also suspect that if you did receive a +1 bonus from this it would have been called out specifically in the mounted rules. If attacking something smaller size category than mount its +1 for high ground. per the mounted combat section in PRD:
"When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground."
It only makes the bonus more crazy. although this is where GM using smart tactics to challenge the player can come in. Smart opponents would quickly realize dropping the mount or finding some terrain/rubble/etc to limit charge and maneuvability should be a priority for survival. May not be possible, but using those tactics makes the battle more interesting for the players than just lining up and mowing them down.
GM 1990: Nice. I stand corrected. I imagine some adjudication will still be needed by the GM in cases where the small guy is actually on a higher surface. I guess it would also apply if the attacker was coming from above (flying).
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