Who controls the mint controls the universe!
And here I thought if anyone would want to control the mint, it would be the Abadarans.
Ba-dum tch.
On my end I was totally down with the explanation of him banning it simply because he dislikes it, but my version of Barzillai was also a fairly hammed-up borderline-cartooney villain. One of my players got into the spirit by being a prissy noble girl who was personally offended that he banned things she liked, which is as good a reason to revolt as any, I suppose.
Actually if I had players who got hooked on the significance of that aspect, I might drop clues and subtle implications here and there throughout the AP to send the players deeper down the rabbit hole. Then once they have a chance to find out the ultimate truth, I hit them with "He just really doesn't like mint". If set up correctly, I think it can make for a pretty funny moment. Though I might not use it on an especially serious group unless I could make the investigation also be valuable to the players in some way (ie allowing their leads to reveal tangential clues to other more relevant plotlines).
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I made a slight change to the portals in the Tower of Bone. The book lists a vision and says that passing through the portals the PCs can absorb the flaws within themselves and, in doing this, the PC offers understanding to Thrune.
But the visions listed don't make him sympathetic... they just show him being a horrible person. So instead I had it so that the visions written in the book are what the PCs saw when they inspected the portals but I wrote up a second vision for each of the portals from Barzillai's past that made him do the things they saw in the portals. (Does that make sense? The PCs look at a portal and see Thrune being awful, the step through and see what event/events made Thrune into that awful person that way they/the players actually felt sorry for him.)
After going through half of the Tower of Bones one of my players said "This feels less like killing a tyrant and more like killing a long-abused attack bear preconditioned for psychopathy."
So I'm taking that as a sign that it's worked exactly as I wanted it to! :D
I'm trying to figure out how to write Nox into the finale of this book and am looking for more ideas.
Idea 1: Have her as a bearded devil with fighter levels. The downside here is it takes away from Thrune's uniqueness, the upside is it hints towards the future ahead of those who touched the soul anchor.
Idea 2: Some kind of undead? Also, I need to add enemies to the fights because I have 6 players, so I can just add her to any fight.
Idea 3: Have her one of the tormented souls and only in as a call out.
Any recommendations?
I'd research the ramifications of her devilbound template and figure out whether or not it puts her soul to slavery in the afterlife. Also, did she willingly get the template or was she devilbound into servitude by Thrune? the answer may matter to Pharasma...
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I'd research the ramifications of her devilbound template and figure out whether or not it puts her soul to slavery in the afterlife. Also, did she willingly get the template or was she devilbound into servitude by Thrune? the answer may matter to Pharasma...
The template not only enslaves but imprisons the templatee's soul in the afterlife, and can only be gained willingly.
A devilbound creature has made a bargain with a devil, promising a service and its soul in exchange for infernal power. The specific service depends on the devil's type and motivations, but always furthers the interests of Hell.
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The creature has signed a contract of service in return for this template. The devil must reveal its nature as a creature of Hell when it offers a contract, and it can’t hide the details of the contract in any way. The creature must enter the agreement willingly (without magical compulsion). Usually the creature must perform one or more tasks for the devil, and in exchange the creature gains the template's abilities, whether immediately, after a specific amount of time, or once the tasks are completed.
The contract always includes a clause that damns the creature's soul to Hell when the creature dies, with credit for the act and possession of the soul going to the devil signing the contract. When the creature dies, its soul is automatically imprisoned in a gem, which immediately appears in Hell as one of the devil's belongings. If the devil is dead when the creature dies, the creature's soul is destroyed, and can't be restored to life except by miracle or wish. If the creature fails to perform the tasks in the allotted time, its soul is still damned and the devil is not obligated to provide the promised abilities.
Many contracts state that the devil, its agents, and its allies will not attempt to kill the creature. This doesn't protect against all devils, but does offer the creature a measure of protection against treachery from the signatory devil.
Breaking a contract with a devil is difficult and dangerous. Furthermore, as long as the contract remains in effect, a slain victim can't be restored to life after death except by a miracle or wish. If the devilbound creature is restored to life, the devil immediately senses the name and location (as discern location) of the creature responsible.
And it's something Chelaxians of Nox's station do willingly from time to time.
A successful DC 20 Diplomacy check to gather information about Nox is enough to reveal that she's likely bound herself to a devil—an uncommon but not unheard-of ritual performed to gain additional power in this life at the expense of agony in the afterlife. It's a distasteful ritual for many Chelaxians, especially those who already have power, but it can be tempting indeed to those one step removed from the resources afforded by nobility.
In that case then she's serving time in Hell fetching drinks for her master.
In that case then she's serving time in Hell fetching drinks for her master.
As a someone who served Thrune, it is easy to add her to the tower dedicated to punishing those who served Thrune. As there will be a way for her soul to end up in the tower of bone through hell's machinations.
Does it detract from Thrune's specialness (a bone devil inquisitor) to have there Nox as a barbed devil / fighter? Manghune was a demon/assassin, so it has already been presented once. And this is what was promised to those characters that bathed in the soul anchor.
What would be the torment Nox is submitted to in the Tower of Bone?
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I am planning to rewrite the tower of bone to include many of the enemies previously faced by the PCs, including Nox as a bearded devil fighter.
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I am planning to rewrite the tower of bone to include many of the enemies previously faced by the PCs, including Nox as a bearded devil fighter.
I will as well. We're still a bit away from the tower of bone (starting the end of book 5) but it would be really interesting to hear what you come up with!
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Sadly I won't be running the AP past book 4 most likely, but I'm hoping to run the Hell section as a bonus.
Is the curse on the boots at the start really meant to be that much of a negative?
Unless you are a cleric or paladin or other alignment controlled class then they won’t really have an impact - and even then the impact varies
I assume remove curse just fixes it as well so even the part about the boots not being able to be removed and wasting a slot (assuming that is a thing) is not that major
And outside of that being LE actually helps in hell and against enemy spells. I know it is against the spirit of the game but it feels a bit off
Kind of like how I don’t like how 2E alignment damage works as it seemingly just encourages everyone to play neutral character to avoid extra damage from many villains
Is the curse on the boots at the start really meant to be that much of a negative?
Depends entirely how you play the game.
If your game is at one extreme of the roll playing/role playing spectrum, where the PCs are only a collection of stats on a sheet with no backgrounds or personalities, and character names such as "Dude", "Snuffalo Kill" or "Inq/GunSl. concept v. 3" it won't matter one iota (unless they're playing e.g. a paladin).
If you are at the other extreme, with novella-sized background stories and complex and detailed personalities, it could be devastating - or a fantastic opportunity for a change in their role play. If, like most are in my experience, you're somewhere in the middle it would depend on where on this scale your campaign (or player) is situated.
Also, in the first kind of campaign it would only be a mechanical hurdle (i.e. remove curse, or whatnot). In the other extreme, the players might very well chose to not use the right peg in the right hole due to character development/plot reasons.
In my campaign three out of four players would be very much affected since they enjoy trying to breath life into their PC and make them as 3d as possible. One of the three would probably like the challenge (since his character was NE before joining the party). The fourth wouldn't care much since he's more interested in game mechanics (and might even appreciate the mechanical benefits that you mention, of just get rid of it if not). Then again, they wouldn't murder-hobo Trancis in the first place.
Another aspect; in our HR we don't allow evil PCs. So the newly LE:d PC might risk getting the boot (hoho) unless they try to change back to the light side.
Is the curse on the boots at the start really meant to be that much of a negative?
Wait what? 1) do you have evil PCs in this campaign?; and 2) did your PCs steal the boots of the Cheliax messenger??! how did he get back to Cheliax 'without' the boots?!
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Is the curse on the boots at the start really meant to be that much of a negative?Wait what? 1) do you have evil PCs in this campaign?; and 2) did your PCs steal the boots of the Cheliax messenger??! how did he get back to Cheliax 'without' the boots?!
No - I am just reading ahead
One guy is an ex assassin per the backstory and I bumped him to evil when he tortured and murdered guards in cold blood. I think he partly thought of it as too modern i.e. once their faces were know they would be known to all the “cops”
Another bead claiming to be LN the whole campaign but that seemed purely mechanical - Lawful for the monk dip and Neutral so they didn’t take full damage from evil spells
My question was on the mechanics side
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One guy is an ex assassin per the backstory and I bumped him to evil when he tortured and murdered guards in cold blood. I think he partly thought of it as too modern i.e. once their faces were know they would be known to all the “cops”
Yeah, you made the right call. There were secret polices conducting effective surveillance of dissidents at least as far back as Napoleon and his contemporary enlightened despots in Russia and Prussia, so it's not so far-fetched that there would be effective secret polices on Golarion, where they have magic to work with. And in Turn of the Torrent, Barzillai being able to look the PCs in the eye - read, to see their faces - is said to be a scrying aid. But OPSEC does not demand torture.
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In my campaign I had to move two Chaotic Goods to Chaotic Neutral: it happened when they went to Hell and showed no empathy for the imprisoned souls. Something along the lines of, "They must have deserved it if they are in Hell; meh, let's move on."
I was like: "Wait, what?! you agree with Hell's reasons for damnation now? and you, like, totally don't care about these people's suffering at this present time, right under your nose?! that's a paddlin'!"
I'm running a short retirement arc that takes place years after the adventure path. I suspect the players are going to try to destroy the evil kukri Balgorrah.
Naturally I expect the search for the high level cleric of Norgorber to be quite difficult. To reflect this difficulty with something different that high DCs I plan to have the investigation to include a few scenes (1 scene as an instigating incident, 2-3 scenes investigation, then 1-2 scene for the final confrontation).
So what kind of complications could arrive while trying to track down a high priest of the skinsaw cult?
A few ideas I already have are:
1) The hunters become hunted and assassins ambush the group.
2) The information has an immorally high price (not happy with this idea, I'm already planning to have the murder-Vatican warded against anyone who isn't a murder, and they will have to trick the warding or admit to themselves the volume of violence they have in their past).
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In my campaign I had to move two Chaotic Goods to Chaotic Neutral: it happened when they went to Hell and showed no empathy for the imprisoned souls. Something along the lines of, "They must have deserved it if they are in Hell; meh, let's move on."
I was like: "Wait, what?! you agree with Hell's reasons for damnation now? and you, like, totally don't care about these people's suffering at this present time, right under your nose?! that's a paddlin'!"
It's not Hell's reasons, but Pharasma's. You should have moved them to TN instead :P
It's not Hell's reasons, but Pharasma's. You should have moved them to TN instead :PIn my campaign I had to move two Chaotic Goods to Chaotic Neutral: it happened when they went to Hell and showed no empathy for the imprisoned souls. Something along the lines of, "They must have deserved it if they are in Hell; meh, let's move on."
I was like: "Wait, what?! you agree with Hell's reasons for damnation now? and you, like, totally don't care about these people's suffering at this present time, right under your nose?! that's a paddlin'!"
Upholding the status quo? Tisk tisk, what poor revolutionaries... ;)
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Upholding the status quo? Tisk tisk, what poor revolutionaries... ;)It's not Hell's reasons, but Pharasma's. You should have moved them to TN instead :PIn my campaign I had to move two Chaotic Goods to Chaotic Neutral: it happened when they went to Hell and showed no empathy for the imprisoned souls. Something along the lines of, "They must have deserved it if they are in Hell; meh, let's move on."
I was like: "Wait, what?! you agree with Hell's reasons for damnation now? and you, like, totally don't care about these people's suffering at this present time, right under your nose?! that's a paddlin'!"
(It's funny because HR is about upholding the status quo.)
It's seeing someone suffer at the hands of devil and issuing a dispassionate "meh". It's evil, especially when you wield the near godlike powers of a 15th-level adventurer. It would have warmed my heart if one of them would have pulled a waterskin out and at least offer some water to the tortured prisoners. Perhaps if the paladin would have simply made a somber comment about their unfortunate plight...
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So we are cruising to start the argument on what is good and what is evil. (The P word has already been dropped...)
My general advice is to ask your player how their character rationalizes their behavior to themselves. This does two things; it give you a good RP scene as they get to discuss their characters inner thoughts, and it avoids the players arguing with the GM over what is right and wrong and hopefully ends up with the characters arguing with each other over what is right and wrong.
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(It's funny because HR is about upholding the status quo.)Upholding the status quo? Tisk tisk, what poor revolutionaries... ;)It's not Hell's reasons, but Pharasma's. You should have moved them to TN instead :PIn my campaign I had to move two Chaotic Goods to Chaotic Neutral: it happened when they went to Hell and showed no empathy for the imprisoned souls. Something along the lines of, "They must have deserved it if they are in Hell; meh, let's move on."
I was like: "Wait, what?! you agree with Hell's reasons for damnation now? and you, like, totally don't care about these people's suffering at this present time, right under your nose?! that's a paddlin'!"
You mean like telling Cheliax that they are no longer a part of that nation and that they have magical protections that keep Cheliax from sending troops into their lands? Or potentially making peace with the Strix and crafting the start of a peace between one nation and its Strix population? Or upending multiple cults and most likely driving the Church of Asmodeus from the city while allowing other religions to now be openly worshiped? Or how the truth, which was once suppressed and rewritten, is now available for everyone?
Hell's Rebels is not about the status quo. It is about change... and the fact that sometimes change cannot be as extensive and far-reaching as you may desire. It is about growth and becoming something greater. And depending on the party and what they do, it can even allow for greater change - for instance, the development of a "constitutional Lord Mayorship" who is there to ensure the safeties that the loophole crafted into Thrune's deal with the devil protects the people while allowing a more democratic government... or even a descent into tyranny should the players choose that path.
This is not the status quo.
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You mean like telling Cheliax that they are no longer a part of that nation and that they have magical protections that keep Cheliax from sending troops into their lands? Or potentially making peace with the Strix and crafting the start of a peace between one nation and its Strix population? Or upending multiple cults and most likely driving the Church of Asmodeus from the city while allowing other religions to now be openly worshiped? Or how the truth, which was once suppressed and rewritten, is now available for everyone?
Almost all that was already in place, and only needed to be formalized. Egorian was already distant. Its writ was already weak and only sporadically enforced. History was preserved in various caches waiting to be unearned. Asmodeus's church was rich but unpopular. The Kitkasiticka were, and remain, a marginal people - they cannot be otherwise, with a total population of 54 souls. It's a miracle they've survived this long.
The new world existed already within the shell of the old, which split at the slightest prompting. It resembles itself. Accordingly, the new world is not actually new.
But a revolution is not about policy, it is about power. And in terms of power, what is accomplished in SR is a restoration. Of the old Mayor, obviously, and of established and unchangeable families. No one is raised up high, because the nobles and bourgeois who throw their lot in with the revolution can't abide competition. No one is brought down low, not even loyalists of the old regime like Geoff Tanessen, who is guaranteed a place in the new. The social order as it stood, stands.
and the fact that sometimes change cannot be as extensive and far-reaching as you may desire.
This is true, but it's not what the AP says. The SRs and the forces they mobilize aren't making history in conditions that constrain their actions, they willfully put the brakes on their own revolution. What's more bizarre, they are entirely successful, without even having to do what really happens in these situations and massacring their overeager, credulous followers.
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Actually? No.
Originally the region was a part of the Taldor Empire. It became a part of the Cheliax Empire. It has always been a "part" of something, and one that had its resources taken away for the enrichment of that empire - be it Taldor or Cheliax.
The Church of Asmodeus was previously the Church of Aroden. That is not restored at the end. Whatever happens to the building (and I could honestly see it being razed), it doesn't go back to the "same old same old" - and for that matter "[being] a miracle they've survived this long" does not equate with the Status Quo. Hell, the Church of Abadar was originally the Church of Calistria and becomes allies at the end in an effort to try and retain their place in Kintargo and not be kicked to the curbside.
The Kitkasiticka are most likely more than 54 souls - it's just those 54 are in the village. The rest stay elsewhere, be it in exile or in other places of safety seeing the village remains under threat by hags. And they are required in order for Kintargo to claim that region... siding with the hags means Kintargo loses that region, assuming the PCs don't shell out over a hundred thousand gold to Raise everyone they killed in apology. (Given that the Strix are known, rather than being a nearly-mystical group, to the point they're a potential player option... that strongly suggests the Strix have multiple tiny communities that are interconnected through marriages and the like.)
As for the Rebellion? Honestly, the Rebellion isn't about casting down the rich or anything to that effect UNLESS THE PLAYERS MAKE IT SO. The Silver Ravens ultimately are about stopping the abuses of power of the rich and powerful and ensuring that non-nobles and those who are not favored of Thrune have rights and are not just fodder for idle amusements.
Look at the early actions of the Rebellion: Save people who were forced to work as slaves because they got on the law's bad side. Save a repressed people from a series of murders while the repressed people were ignored by law enforcement. Stop a bunch of thieves who were not a focus of law enforcement because they targeted people who were not Thrune supporters. Stopped an effective lynching by Thrune supporters who targeted someone who wasn't a Thrune supporter. Freed people whose job was to help rescue others after they were falsely imprisoned by Thrune. Track down and stop a serial murderer that law enforcement was incapable of stopping.
These are not the actions of people casting down the nobles. These are not the actions of people seeking massive social change. These are people seeking to end a tyrannical government and allow people to live their lives without the threat of persecution and hate. If you the GM or the players chose to make it into something more? Go for it!
But don't claim that the game is something and that Paizo pulled a bait-and-switch like in Council of Thieves because it is not that at all. And the end result: Kintargo freed of Thrune and Cheliax? That is a huge change and has widescale repercussions on the very stability of Cheliax itself as shown with the Golarion write-up for Pathfinder 2.
Could I politely ask that the Revolution Theory discussion be outside of the GM thread?
I know Zimmerwald has some extensive and valued theories (even seeing them mentioned on reddit recently). But I foresee a long back and forward that isn’t truly related to a Book 6 specific GM discussion...
Most of the time, if you're in Hell, you did something and Pharasma sent you there. Out of all the things to be sorry for, a soul in hell normally isn't one of them. Nothing wrong is happening there.
I disagree, and to be complicit with evil is to commit evil.
"Nothing wrong is happening here" would be right if spoken from a psychopomp or Pharasma's perspective at best, but would be completely out of character for a band of Chaotic Good heroes. Of all the alignments on the chart, it is the only one that doesn't care about the structures of the universe and prizes individuality and capacity for change above all else.
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How much any particular person cares about the order of the cosmos probably depends greatly on their ranks of Knowledge: Planes or Knowledge: Religion.
Surely the priority a person places on the cosmological order over individual justice is a function of that person's Lawfulness rather than their education?
Huh. I now feel better about my ruling, since most of the apathy came from the uneducated Chaotic Good slayer.
It was the proof that the character had been Chaotic Neutral all along. Not enough to be evil, and not enough to be good. Complete lack of care beyond anything other than the next pile of loot she'd uncover. And to clarify, it wasn't a case of the real-life player not caring, as the player made sure to point out "My character doesn't care, and she says 'Meh, too late for you fools. Enjoy rolling in your filth'..."
It was clear cut to me, and somewhat of a sad point in the campaign for me as a GM, especially since the party had another CG, a NG cleric, and a LG paladin. They all stood by and took that comment in. And I somehow, as a good little dutiful GM, kept on rolling and described the next room after a few moments of shocked silence. I didn't slow down the game to make a point to that player on the spot: the alignment change came a few mornings later after her return to Kintargo (and in real-life I took the player aside before the next game; the player was fine with it).
At some point some of these situations are meant to elicit some kind of response from the players who are supposed to act out the life of pure hearted heroes. I think the authors of the adventure do it in part for flavor, but the grim tableaux on displays for the players are meant to somewhat also bring out some emotion. Otherwise why bother? should rooms all be described as blank, empty spaces with [insert monster X, Y and Z] in them? I don't think so. I think what separates the bland adventures out there and the great Paizo APs we've enjoyed so far is the pull for player engagement.
Now, if the player would have been evil, lawful neutral or something else, it would have been interesting to see them play that from that angle. But when the GM / mod author cues are completely ignored, it's a sign in my opinion that the GM has to remind the players of a few things. Ultimately, I think the game has been more fun for that player since the character's change to CN. A coming to reality of sorts. But overall, it would be a disservice as a GM to just push all those supposedly good PCs through the drive-thru window of apathy because the GM is scared to hurt some feelings or cause a speed bump in the sacrosanct PC level progression that was planned out from Level 1 to 20. There are things like roleplay (and even if one sucks at it, crutches like Atonement) which can be used by the players to respond or self-correct to GM feedback.
Did they mind being CN? The rules of the game actually make that a benefit as you take less damage from evil based spells and effects (something I really don’t like)
I agree with Lanathar that not all evil spells should be written 'to hurt the good PCs the most'. For instance some evil spells should attempt to corrupt the individual towards evil and should have a greater effect on neutral PCs perhaps.
However one instance where CN may not be so great is in a party which uses a lot of holy smites or similar good spells (forbiddance, etc. and certain symbol spells can get downright nasty at high levels if keyed against 'any non-good') Although PFS has a rule against PvP (i.e. any damage done to another PC is a no-no), I wouldn't extend that rule to a home game where one PC has fallen. Let that PC take damage from a holy smite and have the good PCs look down on him/her questioningly, if that PC is just a shrug master and doesn't care to bother about atonement.
Did they mind being CN?(and in real-life I took the player aside before the next game; the player was fine with it).. . .
It was more a rhetorical question I suppose connected to my point of it actually being more beneficial to be CN than CG. I cannot think of a mechanical benefit to being Good. You are punished for it. It is not like you get more divine boons or angelic protection in Hell if you have a different alignment
Same applies to 2E with the new alignment damage rules. I am already shuddering at the *potential* prospect of an all CN group of "I get to do whatever I want" players (I say potential as whilst I have got close it hasn't happened yet but the damage rules could force it)
I cannot think of a mechanical benefit to being Good.
Other than Symbol of Death set to trigger on "Any Non-Good" alignment? :) :) :)
Yeah... the instances are few and far between I agree.
LOL ... I think I know that guy... or a genetically similar candidate living nearby.
I personally would have a hard time enjoying antihero / non-good type of roleplay. The 'progress that cool build you thought of' goal would do little to motivate me to go to the next game.
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So I’ve never run Mythic rules before and maybe that’s why I’m having a hard time figuring out what Mythic Abilities Barzillai has chosen. I know he’s a Heirophant and it seems as though he has chosen the Mythic Spell ability. I can’t find his other ability though.
They don’t seem to be spelled out like they would if they were feats and my experience level with Mythic is really making it difficult to find.
Anyone have any insight?
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So I’ve never run Mythic rules before and maybe that’s why I’m having a hard time figuring out what Mythic Abilities Barzillai has chosen. I know he’s a Heirophant and it seems as though he has chosen the Mythic Spell ability. I can’t find his other ability though.
They don’t seem to be spelled out like they would if they were feats and my experience level with Mythic is really making it difficult to find.
Anyone have any insight?
Basically, use process of elimination. If you can find an ability that can't be attributed to anything else (e.g., inquisitor class levels, bone devil HD), it's probably a mythic ability.
Basically, use process of elimination. If you can find an ability that can't be attributed to anything else (e.g., inquisitor class levels, bone devil HD), it's probably a mythic ability.So I’ve never run Mythic rules before and maybe that’s why I’m having a hard time figuring out what Mythic Abilities Barzillai has chosen. I know he’s a Heirophant and it seems as though he has chosen the Mythic Spell ability. I can’t find his other ability though.
They don’t seem to be spelled out like they would if they were feats and my experience level with Mythic is really making it difficult to find.
Anyone have any insight?
I’ve definitely tried doing that. It’s not the easiest thing to do when you’re parsing through a high level opponent.
Normally, I wouldn’t care so much but I’m currently looking to add a mythic tier to B in book 4. I want to grant a mythic tier to the PCs when they eventually encounter the Fane and add another tier to B. Being that I wanna keep things consistent, I wanna know which abilities B’s already chosen.
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His Divine Surge is Recall Blessing.
His Mythic Path Abilities are Mythic Spellcasting and Extra Mythic Feat
He has Mythic Dodge and Mythic Toughness
And his Mythic Spells are Cure Serious Wounds and Blade Barrier.
He put his +2 to an attribute into Wisdom
He has 7 Mythic Points he can spend on Surges (+1d6 to any d20 roll) or on casting Mythic Spells, or on the Recall Blessing.
He also gets +8 hit points and +2 to his Initiative.
(I spent money on getting Hell's Rebels on Hero Labs. But now that I'm doing everything on Roll20... well, it *would* have been useful if my first group hadn't dropped because "it's too much like politics" waaay back in 2015. Naturally I'd spent the money before they dropped. No, I'm still not over it, we girls never forget.)
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Stuff
Thanks a ton for this. It’s exactly what I was looking for!
Youda Best!
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So I'm preparring this book for my campaign, and I'm entering Barzillai Thrune (enhanced) into Hero Lab. I'm having some difficulties with calculating his stats to match that in the book. How was he built? Monster with levels (14,14,12,12,10) or some other method? He should have a bonus 4 ability points from levels and 2 ability points for the mythic tier. As per Tangent101's post above, the ability points for the mythic tier are added to Wisdom. But that still doesn't add up. I know that I should just roll with it for a the epic-end-of-book-big-bad but I kinda have a need for attention to details about these things.
So I'm preparring this book for my campaign, and I'm entering Barzillai Thrune (enhanced) into Hero Lab. I'm having some difficulties with calculating his stats to match that in the book. How was he built? Monster with levels (14,14,12,12,10) or some other method? He should have a bonus 4 ability points from levels and 2 ability points for the mythic tier. As per Tangent101's post above, the ability points for the mythic tier are added to Wisdom. But that still doesn't add up. I know that I should just roll with it for a the epic-end-of-book-big-bad but I kinda have a need for attention to details about these things.
I don't think there's a proper build for him. At the very least, Hero Labs doesn't use a 15-point or 25-point build for his devilish build. (I purchased Hero Labs' data for Hell's Rebels way back when the game was first released thinking I was going to run it back when it was first out. Yeah, that didn't work out.) From how Hero Labs' point system reveals through a mouse-over, 7 points were spent on Wisdom (meaning Wisdom was boosted by 5 points before Mythic) and a point of Intelligence was removed.
Most likely Bone Devil Barzillai is built off of the normal Bone Devil build with some adjustments to Intelligence and Wisdom.
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I don't think there's a proper build for him. At the very least, Hero Labs doesn't use a 15-point or 25-point build for his devilish build. (I purchased Hero Labs' data for Hell's Rebels way back when the game was first released thinking I was going to run it back when it was first out. Yeah, that didn't work out.) From how Hero Labs' point system reveals through a mouse-over, 7 points were spent on Wisdom (meaning Wisdom was boosted by 5 points before Mythic) and a point of Intelligence was removed.
Most likely Bone Devil Barzillai is built off of the normal Bone Devil build with some adjustments to Intelligence and Wisdom.
This.
Male bone devil inquisitor of Asmodeus 16/hierophant 2
LE Large outsider (devil, evil, extraplanar, lawful)