For fluff reasons I wish to make a race that is completely blind but is still viable as a PC or at least a very well done NPC villain. I referred to the advanced race guide however it states nothing on how being blind effects the race when it comes to being over powered or under powered. I think that I would need to give blind sense, or maybe a less beneficial blind fight, as a bonus feat otherwise it would be lacking at least 1 feat no matter what build it was. The race would be born without eyes and therefor not capable of ever being able to see with conventional ways. However I would make a home rule that magical effects that benefit, or debilitate, based on vision like scrying an enemy, or being the victim of an illusion spell would still work normally however this race would perceive the Illusion, scry, etc through that blind sense. I think this race would end up being purely fluff and just a way for someone to play the "blind swordsman" type. However if it goes well my group would be allowed to vote on if they want to keep it or not and if they do then I would likely make a campaign that revolves around them. I prefer wilderness races over technologically advanced races, and I think the race would end up mechanically working well for druids/rangers and all the other classes that work well with druids and rangers for multiclassing.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, blindness is a pretty huge impairment for an adventurer. I've seen people try to homebrew the blind warrior type before but all they ever do is give them blindsight, which is stupid because blindsight is better than normal sight. So the blindness ends up being irrelevant.
I'd give the race blindsense. Blindsense allows you to pinpoint the location of creatures and things around you. However, you still can't see them -- they still get total concealment and you're denied your Dex bonus to AC against their attacks. This effectively makes running a blind character not a chore at the table because then you don't have to make Perception checks every round.
You could also give them another sensory ability for flavor -- one that doesn't negate being blind. For example, maybe an at-will detect plants or animals. But that might not be necessary. Honestly, you could still make a very viable cleric or area-effect sorcerer with a blind character.
You could refer to the Grimlock race from Dungeons and Dragons as a starting point.
For fluff reasons I wish to make a race that is completely blind but is still viable as a PC or at least a very well done NPC villain.
Hello Petie!
The owner of my FLGS (friendly local game store) has been going blind for decades and I worked with him to design the vestraadi. They've got a sonar ability that's more realistic to the experience of being blind (or so I'm told!) and should be right up your alley.
Well, blindness is a pretty huge impairment for an adventurer. I've seen people try to homebrew the blind warrior type before but all they ever do is give them blindsight, which is stupid because blindsight is better than normal sight. So the blindness ends up being irrelevant.
I'd give the race blindsense. Blindsense allows you to pinpoint the location of creatures and things around you. However, you still can't see them -- they still get total concealment and you're denied your Dex bonus to AC against their attacks. This effectively makes running a blind character not a chore at the table because then you don't have to make Perception checks every round.
You could also give them another sensory ability for flavor -- one that doesn't negate being blind. For example, maybe an at-will detect plants or animals. But that might not be necessary. Honestly, you could still make a very viable cleric or area-effect sorcerer with a blind character.
That is one of my worries. Blind sight makes the race being blind just extra words on the character. A limited type of sight granted by echo location may be feasible. In that case I'm thinking have the echo location be an at-will ability that is chosen as on or off like power attack or combat expertise, but a little more work would be needed to make sure the details are ironed out. I like the blind sense idea, but I think the NPCs/PCs would also need to take blind fight in order to reduce the penalties a little, ie still gets dex bonus. Either way I think you have given me some good ideas to reflect on thanks.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For fluff reasons I wish to make a race that is completely blind but is still viable as a PC or at least a very well done NPC villain.Hello Petie!
The owner of my FLGS (friendly local game store) has been going blind for decades and I worked with him to design the vestraadi. They've got a sonar ability that's more realistic to the experience of being blind (or so I'm told!) and should be right up your alley.
I like the idea of echolocation so I will definitely consider the idea. ALthough I think maybe a mix between your co created Vestraadi and the Grimlock that was mentioned by Peachbottom would be a good attempt at what I'm trying to find. The race itself will rely on other senses like sound, and scent to locate everything. Obviously from an evolutionary stance in the real world there are many creatures that have survived and are blind or near blind like bats and worms. The game itself also has monsters that are blind and have things like tremor sense to compensate. I just have never seen it done as a PC or humanoid NPC, except with the oracle that can take blindness as a curse, and in that case its very specific.
Movies, games, comics and other works of fiction have numerous cases of characters with impaired vision or that are completely blind and are bad asses. This may not be completely so in real life, but hey we're playing a fantasy game right?
I think Blind-Fight as a bonus feat would be okay. Its benefits are those I could expect from a creature with permanent blindess. They still have significant disadvantage of having a 50% miss chance and all other downsides of being blind. However, they have an edge against an opponent in darkness.
I didn't mention it earlier because you're making a race, which gives you design space for more creative options. But if all else fails, Blind-Fight would work.
Well, blindness is a pretty huge impairment for an adventurer. I've seen people try to homebrew the blind warrior type before but all they ever do is give them blindsight, which is stupid because blindsight is better than normal sight. So the blindness ends up being irrelevant.That's the whole point of the Blind Warrior archetype in fiction. He can't see, so he can perceive better than those who rely on their eyes.
As far as I know blindsight does have limitations though, no colors means no reading anything that isn't raised lettering, etc. [I suppose blindsight could read dwarven/orcish/drow writing intended for Darkvision reading in a no-light environment just fine though.]
Even disregarding that giving blindsight for free negates all relevant downsides of being blind, a blind warrior that's more preceptive than people with sight is not a 1st level character.
The vestraadi are borne from Phil complaining about all blind characters in RPGs being either Daredevil or unplayable. :p
Fortunately that's become less frequent since then. :)
i was hoping this was a race as in a competition to get somewhere, where everyone was blind during the race...
I wonder if this concept fits a class better than it does a race. Working towards eventually removing all deficits or most of them. The class would have to be pretty sound to make a low level character viable though because with an initial constant penalty like blindness a character could end up getting over powered by the other adventurers very quickly or even be over powered by less powerful enemies.
That's a possibility. Though, a blind race sounds pretty fun.
Frankly, this won't work, not as a PC race. Unless the race gets adequate compensation for it. So much compensation that they can see just as well, or at least almost as well, as all the other races. Anything less than that and they will be too gimped to make sense.
Blind Bob: Hey, I want to join your adventuring party. I'm awesome, you need me.
Party: What can you do?
Bob: I'm a sorcerer!
Party: Sweet, we need an arcane caster since our wizard got eaten by that ghoul. You're hired.
*Party gets up to leave the tavern. Bob stands up and starts fumbling blindly toward the door, stumbling over things and bumping into everything in his way.
Party: Wait a minute! You're blind!
Bob: Duh. I know that.
Party: You can't adventure with us. You'd be a huge liability.
Bob: Don't worry. Ooof! *he trips over a chair and falls on his face*. Uh, I meant to do that. As I was saying, it's not a problem. I use magic, I don't need to see.
Party: Ahh, so you can see with magic?
*Bob tries to stand up but bashes his head into the bar. He sits back down, blood trickling down his face.
Bob: Well, no, not really. But I cast Summon Monster all the time and let them see for me. And they can fight even when I can't see.
Party: But how will you get to the dungeon when you can't even get out of this tavern?
Bob: Oh, one of you can hold my hand and guide me everywhere. When a monster attacks, I'll summon something.
Party: But how can you know where to summon it, or direct it to attack enemies you can't even see?
*Bob stands up very carefully this time. Once on his feet, he begins shuffling toward the bathroom.
Party: Hey, that's not the exit. It's over here.
*Bob slowly turns toward the sound of their voice and promptly trips over a half-orc patron, spilling his ale. The half-orc flies into a rage and starts beating the crap out of Bob. Between punches, Bob manages to summon a fiendish crocodile. The half-or runs away. The crocodile starts eating the bar maid.
Party: Stop it! Make it stop!
Bob: Make what stop? See, I told you I was useful!
*crickets
Bob: Guys? Hey, guys? Where are you?
*crickets
Bob: This isn't funny!
*The party is long gone, and so is the barmaid (the crocodile belches and grins at Bob as if to thank him for its meal before it vanishes).
Bob: Damn, not again...
In short, no adventuring party would be stupid enough to take a blind adventurer into the kinds of deadly places and situations where adventurers go. Even if he can summon fiendish crocodiles.
Party fighter: Gah! Why is this ghoul biting me in my bedroll?
Party cleric: Ouch! Me too! Why didn't we have warning?
Party rogue: I got a ghoul too, it actually crawled into my tent here. Who was on watch?
Blind Bob: Oops. My bad.
Party: Damn, not again...
Really, to make this work, your "blind" character must be able to "see" well enough to fill the same job, at level 1, that every other sighted race can do. Period.
Now, you can re-flavor that as echolocation, or blindsight, or binaural olfactorilocation, or ESP, or whatever you like, but he must be able to do it. If you do re-flavor it, you might have a mechanical spin on it. Blindsense is cool, but he can only do it up to 30'; he's really blind after that, so it has pluses and minuses.
Of course they are. I was going for hyperbole. I never meant to offend any actual blind people (I hope they aren't reading my post!).
You could tweak BlindSense and BlindSight a little, also remember that even Blindsight has weaknesses that normal sight doesn't, Hell, one is bigger than one of Darkvision's weakness, and as someone else said, it has limited range.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think blindsight is too powerful a thing to give to a pc race. Here's a little blurb on what can and can't happen with it along with blind sense.
Blindsight:
Some creatures possess blindsight, the extraordinary ability to use a non-visual sense (or a combination senses) to operate effectively without vision. Such senses may include sensitivity to vibrations, acute scent, keen hearing, or echolocation. This makes invisibility and concealment (even magical darkness) irrelevant to the creature (though it still can't see ethereal creatures). This ability operates out to a range specified in the creature description.
Blindsight never allows a creature to distinguish color or visual contrast. A creature cannot read with blindsight.
Blindsight does not subject a creature to gaze attacks (even though darkvision does).
Blinding attacks do not penalize creatures that use blindsight.
Deafening attacks thwart blindsight if it relies on hearing.
Blindsight works underwater but not in a vacuum.
Blindsight negates displacement and blur effects.
Blind Sense:
Blindsense lets a creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent that cannot be seen has total concealment (50% miss chance) against a creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.
If we follow this reasoning, anything that relies on a creature who uses sight as it's main way of perceiving it's environment does not affect a creature with Blindsight. So you can safely assume that things like illusions that don't create sound, don't work against creatures with it, since Blur and Displacement are both illusion based spells. At the same time you've also given the PC an effective 360 degree vision that's only limitations are the distance of it's blindsight and if there is something completely blocking them from being able to perceive an area... like the thing is hiding in a box. So technically they can NEVER be caught flatfooted by something trying to sneak up on them as they are perceiving everything within their area of blindsight... like the rogue trying to steal something from them or one of their allies... or the bandits that are just up the path.
I know you said that you thought about tweaking their Blindsight to counter this, but certain illusions and almost all gaze attacks rely on a players ability to see to be effective.
Yes, they have the draw back of being unable to perceive an ethereal creature, but how often does that really pop up in a campaign? Not often enough to off-set the benefits.
I played in a campaign where my char went completely blind; it was a 1-in-100 chance of happening and I got the 1. The thing was my sight was replaced with an ability called "Magical Sight - the pc goes completely blind to normal means unless in the presence of magical things; spells and items only. The item sheds light to the pc based on it's strength. The PC can also instantly identify any and all magic incorporated into the item as well as any spell that is being cast as if they had studied it for 5 rounds." I didn't realize I was blind until we left the dungeon we were in because the entire thing was highly magically infused. Since magical beasts and creatures don't radiate magic I couldn't see at all and ended up having to buy a ring that had a minor epic level spell on it; yeah I know contradictory but the spell was detect living with an epic range on it making it a level 10 spell; just so I could see out to 120 feet. Not a good ability for the groups cleric to have.
Yeah, but Blindsense is too weak. No DEX, ever. Or dodge. Always sneak attacked. Always suffering a 50% miss chance. Cannot target any enemies or friends for any spell that is not touch or automatic area effect.
That's crippling.
As a PC, you're not quite useless, but so close to it that you have no business being in an adventuring party and they definitely have no reason to take you (other than that their players at the game table felt obligated to include your blind character's player because you're at the table too.
Blindsight is pretty powerful. If you do this, you better charge racial points for adding it to the race. Sure, there are benefits, but there are benefits to being immune to sleep and charm, receiving bonuses on saves, getting extra skill ranks every level, and all the other racial things that cost points in the race builder.
So assign this a decent number of points and it's probably OK.
Archmic, you mentioned that Bindsight is 360 degrees, but so is sight, so that shouldn't be an issue. The immunities it conveys are nice, definitely worth some points. And the "Magic Sight" is cool, but may not be practical at very low levels, which could limit this race to only being used when starting characters at mid-levels.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe try making your own brand of "vision" they have, kind of in the middle ground between Blindsense and Blindsight?
give them blindsense, uncanny dodge (with feat for improve uncanny dodge), and free blind fight feat at level 1.
As I said, I think blindsense and Blind-Fight as a bonus feat will suffice. Heck, now I'm considering writing a blind race. That sounds like fun!
Blind sight and blind sense are in the race builder, but at the same time it doesn't specify that the race must be blind to have them. Obviously I could just use the race builder to build a race that has those, also the race builder includes bonus feats that have no prerequisites so blind fight I believe is possible as a bonus feat. I also want to point out that in the Iron Gods adventure path a character, although unlikely because of the actual dice rolling chance, A character could do one fight in the campaign and make it to a mysterious ooze that when drank has the possibility of mutating you and taking away your vision granting blind sight of 30ft I think. Also the same ooze can grant what is called 3 dimensional vision which is basically blind sight. So Paizo has created a scenario where its possible to get blind sight at level 1. The problem is once players figure out a good result could come from drinking the ooze there is no rule stating they can't just keep drinking it until they get all the good effects. There are effects like can't die from old age, and grow extra arms.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
race builder is a really crappy guide you don't need to follow it.
I was going to say ghouls smell like dead bodies, but someone beat me to it. In any case, no magic missile for blind characters.
Blindsight can not see colors.
Blindsight can not detect Incorporeal creatures (being some kind of ESP aside).
Being blind means you are immune to a lot of stuff, but also that there are thing you can't do/understand/etc, also, said Immunities includes benificial effects as well as negative ones.
Blindsight can not see colors.
Blindsight can not detect Incorporeal creatures (being some kind of ESP aside).
Being blind means you are immune to a lot of stuff, but also that there are thing you can't do/understand/etc, also, said Immunities includes benificial effects as well as negative ones.
But with blindsight, you aren't blind anymore, which is the problem with using blindsight for a character that's supposed to be impaired with blindness.
Archmic, you mentioned that Bindsight is 360 degrees, but so is sight, so that shouldn't be an issue. The immunities it conveys are nice, definitely worth some points. And the "Magic Sight" is cool, but may not be practical at very low levels, which could limit this race to only being used when starting characters at mid-levels.
Normal Sight isn't 360 degrees, it's what's in front of you with nothing obstructing your vision; you can't see the guy hiding behind the tree. Blindsight is an area out to a distance in all directions so you would be able to "see" the guy hiding behind the tree. Blindsight completely destroys stealth. Most creatures that have it also have eyes and only really use blindsight when they can't use them, making it an on or off thing; those that don't have that option have it on all the time because it's their primary and only way of seeing.
I used the Magic Sight thing as an example of something that happened to a char of mine to show that almost anyway you use to to make the race blind is going to have some short comings and advantages; I never wanted it, but it was part of a trap in an old school dungeon a friend had updated for 3.5. I would never suggest giving it to anyone due to the debilitating effect it has at low levels and the utter dominance it has at later; the enemies really couldn't hide from me because I could see the light from their magical equipment.
But with blindsight, you aren't blind anymore, which is the problem with using blindsight for a character that's supposed to be impaired with blindness.Blindsight can not see colors.
Blindsight can not detect Incorporeal creatures (being some kind of ESP aside).
Being blind means you are immune to a lot of stuff, but also that there are thing you can't do/understand/etc, also, said Immunities includes benificial effects as well as negative ones.
What I think Gars is getting at is your interactions with mundane/everyday things is going to be impaired. You can't read the scroll to cast the spell or the letter that the king in the dwarven keep sent you.
But, for things that don't involve reading or giving a detailed description of what a person looks like; he's 6'5" with long blonde hair and purple eyes; its bonuses vastly out weigh it's negatives. Being a blind wizard or magus would be pointless, but pretty much every other class is still viable and you would never need to take perception seeing as how you "see" everything within your area of blindsight unless it's incorporeal.
You can still "see" how beautiful the Nymph is, but because you are "seeing" it through means other than your eyes, her ability to instantly kill you with it; bewitch you with it, or any of her other supernatural abilities that rely on you seeing it with your eyes are completely useless as that's not how the PC is "seeing" her.
So, I think quite a fundamental question would be: How does this race percieve it's surrounding? I don't mean mechanically, but simply how it works in the ecosystem. Does it have sonar abilities like a bat? Can it sense life energy, like some undead? Can it sense heat?
Also, what environment is it from, that the race could be successful with limited perception? Deep underwater? Deep underground?
Assuming some form of sonar ability, as that seems to be most common both in nature and fiction, consider making your own rules for how it would function. Something like this (this is just a rough sketch, not meant as a finalized suggestion):
Ecolocation [Ex]: The foorace has no eye sight, but have keenly attuned hearing and ecolocation that allows it to perceive things within 100 ft. Within this range, it can notice the shape and general texture (rough, smooth, soft, hard et cetera) of stationary objects as well as a seeing creature. It can however not perceive fine detail or color.
Moving objects and creatures can also be perceived, but not as exactly; they are treated as having concealment, causing a 20% miss chance. Ecolocation does not allow foorace to perceive incorporeal beings.
Light conditions and similar things doesn't affect ecolocation, and foorace is immune to any effect that relies completely on vision, such as gaze attacks and many illusions.
At ranges greater than 100 ft. but less than 300ft., foorace can perceive general static shapes without any detail, and the general location of creatures that are at least large.
I am so going to add a braille spellbook to The Cleaves. I will include the tap and die to raise the bumps on the surface.
It has to be learned as a language from someone who knows it.
It takes half a language slot so you could use the other half for sign language, or goblin, because they have no written language. :)
Blindsense (Ex) Using nonvisual senses, such as acute smell or hearing, a creature with blindsense notices things it cannot see. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature. Any opponent the creature cannot see still has total concealment against the creature with blindsense, and the creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.
Blindsight (Ex) This ability is similar to blindsense, but is far more discerning. Using nonvisual senses, such as sensitivity to vibrations, keen smell, acute hearing, or echolocation, a creature with blindsight maneuvers and fights as well as a sighted creature. Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability's range is specified in the creature's descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Perception checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature's description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn.
I don't see 360/all around vision anywhere in there.
The Falmers from The Elder Scrolls...
Well, blindness is a pretty huge impairment for an adventurer. I've seen people try to homebrew the blind warrior type before but all they ever do is give them blindsight, which is stupid because blindsight is better than normal sight. So the blindness ends up being irrelevant.
Well, sort of. Blindsight has one huge detriment—the range. Past, say, 30 feet, you're dead blind. Archers can pick you off with ease. So you're still suffering, just not as badly.
Blindsense (pinpoint enemies), Blind-Fight (Dex bonus to AC, reduced miss chance, move at full speed), Scent (generally handy), and a light sense ability so they can identify light levels (gives rise to certain tactics, such as quenching light sources or keeping to shadows). Perhaps people carrying light sources don't get total concealment against them. Those general abilities would rule out the most crippling issues.
Sadly, this race will always tend towards magic-using versus martial, which isn't great for a PC race. I suggest benefits that primarily affect martials to balance this out. For instance, high bonuses to Strength or Dexterity, bonuses to grappling—maybe even give them the choker's Quickness ability.
Quickness (Su) A choker is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra move action during its turn each round.
This can be a ridiculously handy ability for martials (though not shabby for anyone else, either) and might even help make up for a quarter of your attacks missing automatically.
Basically, instead of negating their blindness, you have to give them other stuff good enough to make up for it.
EDIT: Considering blindness prevents sneak attacking, you might want to write in a specific exception. Maybe they're experienced enough in close fighting that they can gain precision bonuses against adjacent foes.
Well, blindness is a pretty huge impairment for an adventurer. I've seen people try to homebrew the blind warrior type before but all they ever do is give them blindsight, which is stupid because blindsight is better than normal sight. So the blindness ends up being irrelevant.Well, sort of. Blindsight has one huge detriment—the range. Past, say, 30 feet, you're dead blind. Archers can pick you off with ease. So you're still suffering, just not as badly.
Blindsense (pinpoint enemies), Blind-Fight (Dex bonus to AC, reduced miss chance, move at full speed), Scent (generally handy), and a light sense ability so they can identify light levels (gives rise to certain tactics, such as quenching light sources or keeping to shadows). Perhaps people carrying light sources don't get total concealment against them. Those general abilities would rule out the most crippling issues.
Sadly, this race will always tend towards magic-using versus martial, which isn't great for a PC race. I suggest benefits that primarily affect martials to balance this out. For instance, high bonuses to Strength or Dexterity, bonuses to grappling—maybe even give them the choker's Quickness ability.
Quickness (Su) A choker is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra move action during its turn each round.
This can be a ridiculously handy ability for martials (though not shabby for anyone else, either) and might even help make up for a quarter of your attacks missing automatically.
Basically, instead of negating their blindness, you have to give them other stuff good enough to make up for it.
EDIT: Considering blindness prevents sneak attacking, you might want to write in a specific exception. Maybe they're experienced enough in close fighting that they can gain precision bonuses against adjacent foes.
Having some fluff would help there, and reasons for their existence, etc...
Well, blindness is a pretty huge impairment for an adventurer. I've seen people try to homebrew the blind warrior type before but all they ever do is give them blindsight, which is stupid because blindsight is better than normal sight. So the blindness ends up being irrelevant.
Blindsense/Blindsight having their own weaknesses aside, the Handicapped Badass trope is about having ways around parts of the handicaps, not the whole thing. Also, someone who was born handicapped, or has been handicaped for a while, would have learned ways to cope/live with it.
I'm going with "underground warrior monks", personally. Possibly small-sized swarmers (but not the ability)—the +1 to hit and AC might come in handy.
Also, for everyone's information—grimlocks are in Pathfinder, too.
Well, blindness is a pretty huge impairment for an adventurer. I've seen people try to homebrew the blind warrior type before but all they ever do is give them blindsight, which is stupid because blindsight is better than normal sight. So the blindness ends up being irrelevant.Blindsense/Blindsight having their own weaknesses aside, the Handicapped Badass trope is about having ways around parts of the handicaps, not the whole thing. Also, someone who was born handicapped, or has been handicaped for a while, would have learned ways to cope/live with it.
Blindness with blindsight not a handicap because blindsight is better than normal sight.
Blindness with blindsight not a handicap because blindsight is better than normal sight.Well, blindness is a pretty huge impairment for an adventurer. I've seen people try to homebrew the blind warrior type before but all they ever do is give them blindsight, which is stupid because blindsight is better than normal sight. So the blindness ends up being irrelevant.Blindsense/Blindsight having their own weaknesses aside, the Handicapped Badass trope is about having ways around parts of the handicaps, not the whole thing. Also, someone who was born handicapped, or has been handicaped for a while, would have learned ways to cope/live with it.
Except when it doesn't? can not detect many incorporeal creatures (scent share that weakness), can't read non-relief writtings, Immunity to sight based stuff include the beneficial ones (like bardic performance), limited range, etc...
Now, if the adventure handicap regular sight a lot, that is another story.
has anyone brought up tremorsence? ...snip...
A certain character from Avatar: The Last Airbender?
To Gars:
"This abilities range is specified in the creature's descriptive text." Gives you the range of the blindsight.
"The creature usually does not need to make perception checks to notice creatures within range of it's blindsight ability." Implies that anything within range of it's blindsight is seen; be this above, below, behind, to the side, or behind the creature. If it's in the area of the creatures blindsight it is seen by the creature.
Creatures without blindsight have to make a perception check to see the man hiding in the shadows but the creature with blindsight doesn't have to; as long as the man is within range of the creatures blindsight.
To Gars:
"This abilities range is specified in the creature's descriptive text." Gives you the range of the blindsight.
"The creature usually does not need to make perception checks to notice creatures within range of it's blindsight ability." Implies that anything within range of it's blindsight is seen; be this above, below, behind, to the side, or behind the creature. If it's in the area of the creatures blindsight it is seen by the creature.
Creatures without blindsight have to make a perception check to see the man hiding in the shadows but the creature with blindsight doesn't have to; as long as the man is within range of the creatures blindsight.
Someone need to ask for clarification on that one in the rule forum.
Blindness with blindsight not a handicap because blindsight is better than normal sight.Except when it doesn't? can not detect many incorporeal creatures (scent share that weakness), can't read non-relief writtings, Immunity to sight based stuff include the beneficial ones (like bardic performance), limited range, etc...
Now, if the adventure handicap regular sight a lot, that is another story.
Blindsight completely negates all forms of concealment (magical and non-magical). You can see around corners and low walls. You can see invisible creatures. You can see through any kind of darkness, even magical darkness. Magical effects like blur and displacement have no effect. Visual illusions are useless against you. How can anyone believe this isn't better than normal sight?
Can't see incorporeal creatures? So what? You have immunity to many other circumstantial hazards, such as gaze attacks and explosive runes.
Can't see color? Can't read in a fantasy world that assumes most commoners are illiterate? Who cares? You have super powers.
There's some circumstantial downsides, but blindsight+blindess is still an upgrade over normal sight. Giving a blind character blindsight is like giving a double amputee the ability to fly like Superman. You completely undermine the dramatic impact of the impairment. It's nothing short of a cop out.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's better, but it does have drawbacks. Honestly, range and incorporeal creatures can be a major pain (my grimlocks got wiped out by that pesky forty-foot range). But yeah. It's definitely superior, and I would like to see a different way of playing blindness.