I'm guessing they didn't want a repeat of the Gunslinger.
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I'm guessing they didn't want a repeat of the Gunslinger.
Gunslingers don't need to deal with energy resistance/immunity. If you only have a single die resistance subtracts from each hit, and immunity completely shuts you down. It's the same problem warlock vigilantes have with mystic bolts.
Maybe you can just style you air blast so that it looks like lightning...?
What's the point when it doesn't act like lightning? May as well pick water blast and do the same thing.
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I don't think any of us have the new book, but the PFS Kineticist Pregen is out, and free to download.
You can find it here.
It could shine some light on all this.
I don't think any of us have the new book, ...
some of us have the PDF open right now.
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The redeeming quality of the Aerokineticist is the ability to cast Haste at 3rd level on your party for 1 round at no burn cost. By spending 1 burn, it's duration is rounds equal to your level. From a player in a party without anyone that can cast Haste, this is fantastic.
You mean at 6th level, since it's a 3rd-level talent... Still, I guess if you don't have a Haste caster but several strong martial allies, it's worth giving up your empowered blast for several extra weapon attacks.
I'm not quite sure from the wording whether it also affects you, though. Haste certainly does, but the flavor text says "your allies", which usually doesn't include you.
You are always your own ally for that purpose.
The redeeming quality of the Aerokineticist is the ability to cast Haste at 3rd level on your party for 1 round at no burn cost. By spending 1 burn, it's duration is rounds equal to your level. From a player in a party without anyone that can cast Haste, this is fantastic.You mean at 6th level, since it's a 3rd-level talent... Still, I guess if you don't have a Haste caster but several strong martial allies, it's worth giving up your empowered blast for several extra weapon attacks.
I'm not quite sure from the wording whether it also affects you, though. Haste certainly does, but the flavor text says "your allies", which usually doesn't include you.
read the FAQ
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9nda
"Ally: Do you count as your own ally?
You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, 'your allies' almost always means the same as 'you and your allies.' "
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Awesome, thanks! :D
(A burn is a steep price to pay for prolongued Haste, though... if you were an Overwhelming Soul, you could just use UMD to read off a scroll... But then, I guess choosing OS is kinetic-blasting yourself in the foot. pity, since I could really see a Halfling opera singer OS aero as a character concept.)
Woah, really? I thought Mark said they were going to change kinetic blade so that it didn't work with Vital Strike. If you're right, then that's great.
The main kinetic blast ability says that it never works with Vital Strike (annihilator is then a specific exception).
...Mark, why would you do this to me?
I just wanted to shoot lightning at people man
Maybe fire some time
Is that so much to ask?
Edit: Like, electricity doesn't even get any good Infusions to use with the regular Blast.
There's Thundering Infusion...and that's it on the lightning front. Everything else is air.
I'm legitimately kind of pissed off now. At myself for putting all that thought into that Way of the Wicked character that now doesn't work at all, mostly, but I don't see why it can't work with all the elements.
Here's a quick change for you to use energy blasts: Add 1/2 Con bonus instead of Con bonus (1/4 off-hand, 3/4 two-handed) and remove the damage bonus from blast training. Alternatively, since this is a gestalt character anyway, see if the GM will just let you play energy; the balance of a gestalt game is so different than a normal game (frex, you may have numerous accuracy and damage buffs coming in from champion spirit, which reduces the advantage of touch attacks a little bit) that it doesn't matter quite as much. Honestly, when you mentioned the character, I had just assumed the GM was just deciding to let you go electric for the concept.
The redeeming quality of the Aerokineticist is the ability to cast Haste at 3rd level on your party for 1 round at no burn cost. By spending 1 burn, it's duration is rounds equal to your level. From a player in a party without anyone that can cast Haste, this is fantastic.You mean at 6th level, since it's a 3rd-level talent... Still, I guess if you don't have a Haste caster but several strong martial allies, it's worth giving up your empowered blast for several extra weapon attacks.
I'm not quite sure from the wording whether it also affects you, though. Haste certainly does, but the flavor text says "your allies", which usually doesn't include you.
This is actually exactly the sort of thing I want out of new non-casters; it takes away some of the necessity of having an arcane list in your party. I like how many of the things that most martials absolutely require a wizard to cast on them the Kineticist gets as a class feature, and my sand kineticist will almost certainly be taking that wild talent.
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I agree, making arcanists less necessary is a good thing.
Just noticed that it'd have to be 8th level before I take Celerity, though — I don't trust myself to say no to Wings of Air at 6th. ;o) At that point, I might as well just play Geo/Aero and wait for 10th to get Wings...
Incidentally, I like all elements and can imagine playing any of them. Pity that Fire seems to have gotten the short end of the stick, if the rumors are to be believed. Was there any adjustment to that for the final version? I guess not having a physical blast is a downside in the early levels. Then again, it seems to be the most AoE-happy element, and the only one to get an energy composite blast (which seems good for AoE form infusions). Any experiences with Fire/Fire Kineticists?
Here's a quick change for you to use energy blasts: Add 1/2 Con bonus instead of Con bonus (1/4 off-hand, 3/4 two-handed) and remove the damage bonus from blast training. Alternatively, since this is a gestalt character anyway, see if the GM will just let you play energy; the balance of a gestalt game is so different than a normal game (frex, you may have numerous accuracy and damage buffs coming in from champion spirit, which reduces the advantage of touch attacks a little bit) that it doesn't matter quite as much. Honestly, when you mentioned the character, I had just assumed the GM was just deciding to let you go electric for the concept....Mark, why would you do this to me?
I just wanted to shoot lightning at people man
Maybe fire some time
Is that so much to ask?
Edit: Like, electricity doesn't even get any good Infusions to use with the regular Blast.
There's Thundering Infusion...and that's it on the lightning front. Everything else is air.
I'm legitimately kind of pissed off now. At myself for putting all that thought into that Way of the Wicked character that now doesn't work at all, mostly, but I don't see why it can't work with all the elements.
I asked, and posted your endorsement. ;)
Though if I was going to go for a quick fix, I'd just make them attack normal AC like all the other blasts, with the benefit and penalties that come with that. Cutting the damage even MORE when the physical blasts already benefit from Deadly Aim and whatnot just seems unnecessary.
Back to disappointment again: Why is there no Metal/Lightning blast? That would have been perfect!
Here's a quick change for you to use energy blasts: Add 1/2 Con bonus instead of Con bonus (1/4 off-hand, 3/4 two-handed) and remove the damage bonus from blast training. Alternatively, since this is a gestalt character anyway, see if the GM will just let you play energy; the balance of a gestalt game is so different than a normal game (frex, you may have numerous accuracy and damage buffs coming in from champion spirit, which reduces the advantage of touch attacks a little bit) that it doesn't matter quite as much. Honestly, when you mentioned the character, I had just assumed the GM was just deciding to let you go electric for the concept....Mark, why would you do this to me?
I just wanted to shoot lightning at people man
Maybe fire some time
Is that so much to ask?
Edit: Like, electricity doesn't even get any good Infusions to use with the regular Blast.
There's Thundering Infusion...and that's it on the lightning front. Everything else is air.
I'm legitimately kind of pissed off now. At myself for putting all that thought into that Way of the Wicked character that now doesn't work at all, mostly, but I don't see why it can't work with all the elements.
I asked, and posted your endorsement. ;)
Though if I was going to go for a quick fix, I'd just make them attack normal AC like all the other blasts, with the benefit and penalties that come with that. Cutting the damage even MORE when the physical blasts already benefit from Deadly Aim and whatnot just seems unnecessary.
Back to disappointment again: Why is there no Metal/Lightning blast? That would have been perfect!
Your suggestion is even better honestly, targeting full AC and pretending its physical works perfectly!
Also, metal+electricity isn't a composite due to metal already being a composite. However, the final version of Occult makes new simples and composites easy to do. Just make a simple metal blast first (like the one Milo and I discussed in the Occult product thread) and then declare a new physical composite that combines electricity with that one, with damage of half electricity/half whatever-your-new-metal is, called "electrified metal" or something like that. No rules text required other than deciding what infusions it takes (very likely the same as normal metal, so that's easy too!)
Also, metal+electricity isn't a composite due to metal already being a composite. However, the final version of Occult makes new simples and composites easy to do. Just make a simple metal blast first (like the one Milo and I discussed in the Occult product thread) and then declare a new physical composite that combines electricity with that one, with damage of half electricity/half whatever-your-new-metal is, called "electrified metal" or something like that. No rules text required other than deciding what infusions it takes (very likely the same as normal metal, so that's easy too!)
Yeah, I realized that a minute ago.
What threw me off was the specific Metal Infusions made me think that Metal was a base blast.
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You can't quicken it, since it's already not its own action (though I definitely have quickened a ride the blast and followed up with a blade). If you double it, you get two blades, which I suppose is the only way to use it with TWF, though this doesn't seem worth it to me overall, since you'd need feats you'd rarely use.Could you explain the infusion text which implies you can use it once as part of a full attack to make your attacks.
I mean the text of the infusion is vague enough as is without adding interpretations which are not supported by text. After all what does this mean?
"You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade." (bold is mine)
Does it mean I can make only 1 attack as a blast, thus using it Once in the action or; does it mean you can only have 1 blade useful in a full attack but still get your iterative and since metakenisis gives you extra blast in 1 action but not extra actions (which this infusion is used as part of) it does not allow you to TWF?
On top of the actual infusion text problem you have the fact that to TWF you need to full attack (a full round action) and the metakenesis ability specifically works with standards and swifts, which is not the correct action type.
You can use it once, and it forms a blade,so it forms one blade. You could TWF with a kinetic blade and like a normal weapon, though. You totally do get iteratives and haste attacks, and even AoOs with the whip.
You can use it once, and it forms a blade,so it forms one blade. You could TWF with a kinetic blade and like a normal weapon, though. You totally do get iteratives and haste attacks, and even AoOs with the whip.Thanks for the reply
So to clarify, you can not double kenetic blade to get 2 blades in which to TWF with blasts only?
If you use it once with the double metakinesis, you would get two blades (though it's a complex interaction that I may need to FAQ some day; I originally was more explicit on some of these abilities, but I had to shorten and shorten and reword to fit so many wild talents into the class; I wasn't going to get even a page more leeway).
Here's a quick change for you to use energy blasts: Add 1/2 Con bonus instead of Con bonus (1/4 off-hand, 3/4 two-handed) and remove the damage bonus from blast training. Alternatively, since this is a gestalt character anyway, see if the GM will just let you play energy; the balance of a gestalt game is so different than a normal game (frex, you may have numerous accuracy and damage buffs coming in from champion spirit, which reduces the advantage of touch attacks a little bit) that it doesn't matter quite as much. Honestly, when you mentioned the character, I had just assumed the GM was just deciding to let you go electric for the concept....Mark, why would you do this to me?
I just wanted to shoot lightning at people man
Maybe fire some time
Is that so much to ask?
Edit: Like, electricity doesn't even get any good Infusions to use with the regular Blast.
There's Thundering Infusion...and that's it on the lightning front. Everything else is air.
I'm legitimately kind of pissed off now. At myself for putting all that thought into that Way of the Wicked character that now doesn't work at all, mostly, but I don't see why it can't work with all the elements.
I asked, and posted your endorsement. ;)
Though if I was going to go for a quick fix, I'd just make them attack normal AC like all the other blasts, with the benefit and penalties that come with that. Cutting the damage even MORE when the physical blasts already benefit from Deadly Aim and whatnot just seems unnecessary.
The DM is a cool dude, so he's letting me use it as I originally thought it worked.
Let the electrocutions commence!
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Wait, 3 attacks with composite blasts via kinetic blade would only have to pay for the burn once? And it becomes even more cost efficient with kinetic whips and AoOs?
Woo! Melee kineticists are awesome!What do you make of the word once in the discription of Kinetic Blade, as opposed to every in Kinetic fist?
It certainly confuses me ^^
Wait, 3 attacks with composite blasts via kinetic blade would only have to pay for the burn once? And it becomes even more cost efficient with kinetic whips and AoOs?
Woo! Melee kineticists are awesome!What do you make of the word once in the discription of Kinetic Blade, as opposed to every in Kinetic fist?
It certainly confuses me ^^
You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade.
Singular use, plural attacks.
Move along poor thread.
This is an odd thread necro on old, play test rules.